Jangal Da

Horse riding is a good thing as it teaches you about the animal, its welfare, as well as letting you enjoy a new skill and exercise. Problem is how we prioritise something like this in the modern world. Its a hobby that requires work and committment over a long term and for me the most painful aspect is the cost (my kids ride) - lessons, equipment, the dreaded day when your daughter says 'daddy I want a pony,' the insurance, vets fees, the next dreaded day when the other daughter says 'daddy I also want my own pony,' the injuries (expect a broken collar bone or arm at some stage) and livery fees. Personally I prefer a round of golf myself.

Read. Read. And read some more... Basically you need to know your Sikh history from a variety of sources and books are your best bet. When you start off you need to go to books and not the internet, although the net is a great resource, you need to know where to look and what to trust. Go to your local Gurudwara library and read froma variety of authors who have written over the last century. Eventually you will notice some contradictions, some bias, some lacking primary source referencing etc. This starting point will make your mind more curious and you will naturally seek and source out more information. Read about the Singh Sabha movement in detail at some stage once the background knowledge is in place.

Caste or ethnic group discrimination is unacceptable. Having differences otherwise, based on caste or ethnic group is something to be valued in terms of its diversification. I had a Ramgarhia friend in college who was good at DIY (not my forte at all - got him to put up my shelves for me) and I used to joke that is because of his Tarkhan heritage, whilst he'd admire my garden/ veg plot (his was overgrown and wild and I cleared it for him) and in the same joking vein he'd say its because of my Jatt background. Now either way this does not make any difference in the real world. Not every Tarkhan is a born carpenter and not every Jatt is a born farmer. When I am back in my pendh I go to the gym in the mornings and its quite a small room above the school, with meagre and basic equipment by western standards. However all the lads are there - Jatt, Churah, Chamar, Kamboh, Bahman...Everyone helps each other eg spotting for someone and everyone sweats togather - never seen any caste discrimination. As long as you contribute Rs200 a month then you're one of the boys! What I cannot stand is the reservation system in India. Positive discrimination is just an excuse for a poor education sytem that fails the less well off. Its like here in my country (the UK), I do not like the way some universities add weight to the fact that a school is regarded as disadvantaged and therefore bump up the face value grades. Why be upset about being told that you are to marry within a certain group - our Gurus did not marry out of caste. Your parents will choose someone with your best interests at heart.

I think the right handed thing is purely cultural ( whether islamic or just an eastern thing) - that being the sucha hath, whilst the left is used for washing yourself after ablutions. It somehow slipped into rahet. The nihangs do anticlockwise parkarma so the kirpan is facing Maharaj and if its ever withdrawn (because they're always in a tyaar-bar-tyaar mindset - supposedly) its weilded in the oppisite direction ie away from Maharaj.

I echo the above: Never fly Air India as you may never get there. Emirites and Qatari Airlines are brilliant. Fly to Delhi and not Punjab. Stop in Delhi a couple of nights and then get train - Shatbadi express AC1st class to Amritsar for me, wife and 2 kids was only about £50. However you'll need to book train tickets at least 3m in advance (popular trains in India get booked up within days of tickets being released). We booked via Cleartickets over the net and your email confirmation serves as your ticket. Train is super quick, smooth, air-con and lots of room to stretch out. Never pay a flying visit to Amritsar - stop at least a couple of nights to see all the sites and get the chance to do Amritvela Darshan.

Guru Granth Sahib is Guru. Dasam Granth and Sarbloh Granth are referred to as Dasam Durbar ji and Sarbloh Durbar ji in Nihang Dals. Having all three Granths parkash is a not a big issue as this was puratan practice. However in the Durbar its obvious that the Guru Granth Sahib holds a superior position. The other Granths are Durbaris - very much like in a royal court of man you have the king and then his chief senators. My personal opinion would be not to have the Granths at home unless proper and full Satkar and Maryada can be fulfilled.

I have never understood lalla pair bindi. I first noticed it relatively recently and it would not surprise me if in the last forty years it was some academic from Patiala uni who created it because that's the prime place of learning of the Punjabi language and that department has done a lot of great work. However I have never understood how lalla pair bindi differs from a standard lalla. I read Urdu/ farsi script as well as Gurmukhi and can understand aira, haha and tatta having pair bindis as this would more accurately place some pronounciations that are Arabic or Farsi in origin. But then we would need an alternative sassa for the Arabic s (suad) if we were going down that road and we already have sasse pair bindi for the sh sound - so we may need to introduce sasse pair double-bindi? Personally I think the standard Gurmukhi Penti along with the five standard pair bindi letters suffices well for the Punjabi language.

Welcome Gurbhai This is very interesting and so I shall be asking my fellows in the community whose Sikhi jeevans are greater than mine. I do not think this debate infringes the forum rules, but cuts close and is 'food for thought' (sorry - could not help the pun), so I do not reckon we can go into a deeper discussion on the SikhSangat platform unless Mods give their nods.

We humans are an oddity in that we still take milk after we have been weaned. Sikhi encourages ethically moral practice and you need to decide for yourself if it is still acceptable for you to partake promoting the current industrial practice which is otherwise abhorrent. The descision is personal and I do not think there is any right or wrong answer. At our Gurudwara the Langar has been designated a fair-trade Langar. Despite awareness of this amongst the Sangat, many of whom are from a farming background or recent farming ancestory and should be empathetic towards this, the non fair-trade still gets donated and used. For our household me and my wife buy organic milk because at least its somewhere towards promoting a good life for the cow involved. From this we make our own yougurt. I would stay away from Soya milk or products as its oestogenic. Probably ok for the women though.

I used to live there many years ago. There are lots of Sikhs in B'ham - there are a decent number of Sikh kids in most schools. Avoid schools that are sullah dominated - not an issue in Great Barr though. Out of interest - why not just choose a school with good academic records? I would reccommend Sutton Girls and QMGS - both easily within reach from you via public transport if the kids will be travelling themselves. Consider the private sector if your finances allow.

I think the letter now needs verification because if it is a prank or someone intending upon slander then no matter who its against, its wrong and not the way the Khalsa fights its battles. As for Nang Niddar, I have always reckonded he got the ' spent so many years back in the Des, doing kheti in a remote pendh for many years for the grand-master who eventually saw him worthy of making him his disciple and learning the art,' from some early 80s Jackie Chan (before he moved West/ became a world name - brilliant movies by the way) kung-fu movie. You know the ones that used to come on late on Channel 4 in the 90s and dubbed into English.

This is a foolish subject. There is no Gurmat way to matha tek.

He can go about whatever business he wants - dance like a mujra wali for Sonia Gandhi or worship at Indira's shrine. For me he has always been a Panthic outcaste and so I never give a hoot about his actions. His economic policies are somewhat laudible - for a country dogged by socialist day-dreams at its centre. Nothing outstanding on a world basis though. That's all I'd give him. Weak in voice, weak in body and weak in policy Manmohan "Singh."

Chowk Mehta is not as central as the Durbar Sahib and Sangat wanted access to Sant ji.

I always thought our Gurus taught us to be part of society and not shun the world. I disagree that Amish communities are anything we should model ourselves on. They reject the modern world and other communities, whereas we do not.

Brilliant reply by the bhai jaan.

Where in India are you going to, or will be able to visit?

http://www.sikharchives.com/?p=8003

Cchabeel was traditionally a watering spot during puratan times in the towns and cities. Drinking water could be gotten from there and they were either small wells, springs or fountains. In later times the cchabeels were just tootis linked to the mains municipal water supply. These became redundant soon after the 20th century. At the main Gurudware a cchabeel could be found and taking water from there would have been free of cost. Nowadays some Gurudware still retain a cchabeel in a more modern form eg Baba Deep Singh ji Shaheed cchabeel on the parikarma of the Harmandir Sahib. During Gurpurbs local sangat may set up a cchabeel on popular pilgrim routes eg the Garshankar to Anandpur Sahib highway. There you will be served water, tea, pop, juice, thandai, badam dudh, kachi lassi,sherbets etc...as well as snacks eg pakore. Cchabeel is not actually a type of drink itself.

Took me a while, but then found it - the display box in front of Maharaj. Many thanks for sharing this.

Many answers found here: http://sikhinstitute.org/akaltakh06.html

Nice. But agree - looks like a modern reproduction.

No Kishori Lal here. Quick google search has revealed: The jogi in the centre of the videos is Sanjiv Hari aka Sanjeev/ Sanjiv Daas Hari. He is the head (dharamandhish meaning mukhi)of the Shri Hindu Takht based at Maha Kali Mandir in Patiala. They are a trouble-making organisation. He has previously called himself the head of a nirmala akhara. His other title is the Mahamandelshwar 1008 Shri Sanjiv Hari. It appears that he is a self proclaimed busy body head of an organisation that over the last few years has been demonstarting for demands by making tall claims eg aggitation within so many days if such and such is not done, self immolation of members if such and such is not done. He has formed part of a delegation with the Shiv Sena in the past and met with SAD and Badal Sahib a few years ago over concerns about Sikh militancy in the Punjab - Badal just gave them lip service. It looks like that they are trying to use more volatile means to make themselves heard. They claim to have Hindu followers all over Punjab. In reality they are small-fry - nothing worth taking too seriously. Now that he's raised the stakes he is no longer going to be the anonymous jogi whose demonstrations cause annoyance to a few people not being able to park near the shopping mall in Ludhiana or wherever he shows up. He's just desperate for the limelight. A wannabe.

Beautiful documentry - the Sevadar ji appears very polished. Is the sandal wood Chaur Sahib of Hajji Maskin still part of the Toshakhana or was it destroyed in 1984? I have never seen any contempory pictures of it, but have only read about it. As far as I am aware, as it has never been used by anyone before its presentation to the Harmandir Sahib, it should form part of the jalau in the Durbar Sahib itself on such days when jalau is displayed, but its never there. What else was destroyed or looted? The jalau articles that are displayed comprise of only a few puratan treasures and it is difficult to believe that there was not much more, given the bounties our past Sardars and Rajas collected and according to history donated.

After seeing the videos I've been peeved off. However when I came across the above later in the day, it lifted the krodh that I felt and put a smile on my face!