manni007

JUJHAR SINGH SAID : without the British singh sabha as well as the AKJ wouldn't have been created. Fact. without the British, sikhi wouldn't be twisted, we wouldn't have so called 'Scholar's' adhering to a British version of Sikhi. Fact. without the British, there would be no SikhISM. Fact. In conclusion, the British ruined a religion/way of life. Fact. If it wasn't for certain groups, sikhi would be 100% destroyed, those groups cannot be mentioned as people will get their elastic kachere in a twist. The British ruined a perfect way of life, but our people let it happen. ---------------- I AGREE, GOOD POST

Mala is right dal khalsa uk wud be ver naive 2 trust the pakistani govt 2 protect sikhs as they can not even protect their own poeple or shrines.

If im honest with myself, I am neither Sikh, Hindu, muslim , or any other name tag, I am a SOUL. A Soul that wants to be united with God some day. A soul trapped in Anger, Ego, Greed, Attachment and Pride. Everday, I get trapped by one of these vices, esp anger. I have wasted precious time in my life giving in to each of these vices, even wasted time on this site venting my "anger" about muslims etc. I was looking for ANSWERS but the answer was always there! If I truly beleive in God I dont need to get angry about who said what or did what to me, my family or people. I dont need to get angry because GOD will punish those who do wrong, and are guilty of a sin, whether it be in relation to Partition, 1984, Pakistanis converting sikhs girls or beatin up sikh guys or whatever. SO WHY DO I GET ANGRY ABOUT IT AND WASTE TIME FIGHTING AND ARGUEING, WHEN I COULD PRAY? The fact that I get hung up on ego or anger shows my lack of FAITH. Who am I to insult or put down anothers religion or belief? How strong is MY own beleif. In the sacred texts (whether it be the Granth Sahib, Bhagvad Gita, Vedas, it is written : To be one with god meditate on his name and remove yourself from ANGER, EGO, GREED, ATTACHMENT AND PRIDE. In the Bible it says; let he who has not sinned caste the first stone? Yet me, I cast stones all the time? Can anyone share any prayers that they do everyday to mediate on Vaheguroos name? and to rid themselves of the 5 vices? I urge the Mods to move the Gurbani section to the top of this site, so that that is the FIRST section people NOTICE when they come here, rather than getting beat down, distracted by the Politics and hate often depicted in this section; as I was. I have seen certain hate filled people on this Forum, and I really dont want to end up like them. FROM TODAY I WILL NEVER WRITE ANYTHING DISRESPECTFUL ON THIS SITE ABOUT ANOTHER RELIGION, CULT, GROUP AGAIN. ------------ I really hope Nehmat reads this thread and posts a prayer, because of all the people I have encountered on this site he seems the most spiritual, and at ease with true Dharma - whatever name you chose ot call it. Of course everyone else is also welcome. The Granth Sahib Ji talks about LOVING GOD, AND HUMANITY, it uses names such as Vaheguroo, Ram, Hari, Krishen and Allah for God, yet some insult these very names? ME? I was better a few years ago, when I had lesser knowledge about Sikhi, because my faith was stronger. I would feel a closeness with god when in the temple and at peace. But ever since I started visiting religious forums, and reading so called "know it alls" questioning about other faiths and in-turn reading people of other faiths questioning mine, I also became like them, THINKING I had superior knowledge ot those of other faiths and that I was better! I am NOT. Truth be told I myself over the years have become so full of questions about not only others faith, but my own also, that i have found that MY belief has DECLINED. From today I start again, no label , no politics, no ego, no judgments, no hate for others religions, JUST FAITH. VAHEGUROO, OM SHANTI OM, AMEN

Sikhs in INDIA protest against Taliban treatement of SIKHS in PAKISTAN : 3,000 Sikhs seeking shelter/refuge in Panja Sahib Nanaksar, Pakistan gurdwara due fear of Muslim violence Pakistani taliban making Sikhs pay tax for being SIKH?? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18b_YQSSpjE Protest by VHP in Jammu demanding fair treatment of sikhs in PAKISTAN Taliban levy tax on sikhs Sikhs fear Pakistan violence Sikhs protest in Ambala Punjab India against President of Pakistan, burn his effigy and against Pakistan Govt and Taliban http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZUAWnbouFdw...feature=related

Rupinder Singh said : Remember the Bigot Indian joke that the Hindu notices the storm before it happens, the Muslim notices the storm whiile it happens and the Sikh only notices the storm after it's happened. Unfortunatly, this bigot statement sometimes feels like it has an element of truth. There's been very little discussion of the 3000 Sikh refugees within Sikh circles, Sikh media and Panthic Jathebhandi's. As Non-Indian citizens, we have a better chance of intervening and forwarding aid to the refugees, as well as ensure our great Guru Ghars are protected. Pakistan is still that same Punjab of our Gurus, Rajas,Mahapurshs and Shaheeds. ---------------------- Good points, look at the resposne this thread adn my previous thread on the same issue has had on thsi site, - HARDLY ANY AT ALL. Just like MALA said : If it's not khalistan or beadbi or pakhandi babay then it never seems to be a big issue with the high profile panthic jathebhandis. ------------------------ Truesay! A benti to Moderators can u please make this topis a STICKY and provide us with info as to what the SANGAT here can do to HELP, so that for once we do something constructive instead of debating all day?

there is hardly ANYTHING. There was also a programme abotu this on Dispatches a few weeks back - 3000 sikh refugess livign in panja sahib. the sanitation conditions are terrible adn food is running out. many people have had family memebers kidnapped and killed. read my thread on this issue sikhs suffering in pakistan and you can see all the youtueb videos to back up what im saying. PEOPLE WILL CRY ABOUT THIS ISSUE AFTER THE PANJA SAHIB IS ATTACKED AND AFTER PEOPLE HAVE DIED, RIGHT NOW THEY IGNORE IT!

WE NEED MORE POSTS LIKE THIS, PLEASE! THEN THIS WOULD REALLY FEEL LIKE A SITE WE CAN LEARN FROM! INSTEAD OF THE FIGHTING ALL THE TIME

Dude not many here can help u, all they are good at is crying about 1984, as they cant do anything about whats going on today. Poeple liek citizen soulja can write littel letters crying abotu a Bollywood movie, as the makers are 10,000 miles away and these millionaire film makres will ignore his pncy letters. But will tell you there is no problem and just do naam jap. Keep praying but take action too, u cant show these people that ur scared or back down. All you can do is fight. what area u from? I know some good duys in Birmingham and Slough adn Gravesend who could help you. Pm me.

He also said dat guru gobind never defeated wazir khan or Aurangzeb and was killed by two Pathans

Yes indira khan ghandi was a muslim. She was born indira nehru and married feroze khan son of mohamed khan who married a parsi zorastrian woman, who converted to islam when she married mohamed khan. Indira nehru married feroze khan in the uk in a muslim ceremony in 1962. Nehru gave the couple the ghandy name to keep the hindu vote. Indiras sons both practised islam and were circumcised.

If Lord Krishen was a mere mortal why would Guru Gobind Singh ji dedicate almost an entire Granth to him? Dasm Granth, I have read and is dedicated to Lord Krishen from Page 170 onwards adn tells his story, ie how he killed Kansa and the Mahabharat epic. Kharag Singh?? who is that, I havent come across him?

Lets NOT argue about this subject adn I think the mods shoudl consider closing it down. Anyway, here is a line from the GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI Maharaj : Page469 Line 15 Raag Aasaa: Guru Angad Dev eyk ik®snµ srb dyvw dyv dyvw q Awqmw ] eaek kirasanan sarab dhaevaa dhaev dhaevaa th aathamaa || The One Lord Krishna is the Divine Lord of all; He is the Divinity of the individual soul. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Lets AVOID Beadbi,as Warrior adn Chokarawala say.

Well done on the letter by the way, as u will note that I did COMPLIMENT you. Your first paragraphs are very good, but try to use antoehr word instead of disgusting or detested maybe abhorrent and loathed? You also need to make is a bit shorter and to the point. The Slum Dog millionaire example is WEAK, why not Jo Bole SO Nihaal where Sunny Deol makes fun of SInghs ie his turban twisted after the be scene, or theway he grunts when he gets turned on. What abotu Singh Is KIng with the Shaved face Singhs??

Got to agree with Chokaranwala and Warrior here. I have had many debates about the Dasm Granth, and having many books on it can confirm : Guru Govind Singh Ji wrote stories of bhagwan Ramchandra , Krishanj and Durga mata, in the Dasma Granth. Chaubis avtar, lists twenty four avtars, of these, the accounts of Rama (864 verses) and Krishna (2496 verses) are the longest. The Dasam Granth deals with all the avatars beginning on page 169. Volume two of the Dasam granth is exclusively based on Lord Krishna. Guru Govind Singh writes in detail of Lord Brahma approaching Lord Vishnu and requesting that he incarnate as Lord Krishna to Kill the demon Kansa. He describes the wedding of Lord Krishnas parents Devaki and Vasudev. He then describes how Lord Vishnu incarnated as lord Krishna and how he then killed the demons and restored order in the world. Near the end of Chandi Charitra i, (Dasam Granth, written by Guru Govind Singh Ji), occurs this well known shabad, aptly called Deh Shiva Bar Mohe : O SHIVA (god addressed in the form of Shiva), GRANT ME THIS BOON, THAT I MAY NEVER AVOID DOING A GOOD DEED, NEVER FEAR THE ENEMY WHEN I GO INTO BATTLE, BUT SURELY GO ON TO VICTORY; THAT I MAY TEACH MYSELF THIS GREED ALONE, TO SING ONLY OF THY PRAISES. AND WHEN THE LAST DAYS OF MY LIFE COME, I MAY DIE IN THE MIGHTY FIELD OF BATTLE. Guru Govind Singh Ji spoke the following lines of gurbani : ‘like the water in ocean and the waves in rivers, we will merge with you, o lord. When the soul becomes one with brahma we assume the universal role of air. Why need we come back to this world ? Birth and death occur according to gods will. When we realise this mystery of god’s will, we will rest in peace.’ Guru Govind Singh Ji wrote: O mind! Remember the goddess Sharda of innumerable qualities; And if she be kind, I may compose this Granth (based on) Bhagavata.6. Dasam granth : KABIT The large-eyed Chandika is the remover of all sufferings, the donor of powers and support of the helpless in ferrying across the fearful ocean of the world; It is difficult to know her beginning and end, she emancipates and sustains him, who takes refuge in her, She destroys the demons, finishes various types of desires and saves from the noose of death; The same goddess is capable of bestowing the boon and good intellect; by her Grace this Granth can be composed.7. Dasam granth : SWAYYA She, who is the daughter of the mountain and the destroyer of Mahishasura; She, who is the bestower of the kingdom on India by killing Sumbh and Nisumbh; He, who remembers and serves her, he receives the reward to his heart`s desire, And in the whole world, none other is the supporter of the poor like her.8. End of the praise of the goddess Chandi Ki Vaar by Guru Govind Singh Ji is full of devotion to mother Durga (Maa Bhagauti). It is accepted by all Sikh scholars that Guru Govind Singh was a staunch believer in Durga Mata (mother goddess). The following is an exact list of just some of the references in the Dasam Granth where Devi Puja is found: TRIBHANGI CHHANDS (201-220, IN AKAL USTAT) are clearly in praise of Devi Mata. IN SHASHTARNAMA in the beginning there is a whole chapter (27 CHHANDS) In praise of Devi Mata. CHANDI CHARITAR I & II, CHAUBIS AVTAR, RUDRA AVTAR INCLUDING PARTS OF CHARITROPAKHYAN, all are in praise of the DEVI and AVTARS. Similarly, in the above puranic stories there are numerous hymns in praise of MAHA KAL, who is a tantric OR SAKAT DEITY, PAGES 55, 56, 57, 58,73, 156, 157, 183, 185, 254, 310, 612, 613, 642, ETC. WORSHIP OF Devi Mata, UNDER THE NAME OF KALIKA, CHANDI, SIVA OR DURGA IS FOUND AT PAGES 74, 76, 99, 117, 255, 118, 309, 310, 116, 673, 675, ETC., ETC. In CHANDI CHARITAR UKAT BILAS the author mentions that he has virtually made the composition from 700 slokas of markand purana. He adds that whoever hears or recites the same for any specific boon, the Devi Maa would certainly grant it instantaneously (Chandi Charitar, ukat bilas - sloka 232) IN CHANDI CHARITAR II in the Sloka 261 the author writes that whoever remembers or worships the Devi with devotion, shall attain salvation. similarly, in the Mata Durga // the author writes that whoever recites the same, will achieve salvation and not be born again (stanza or pauri - 55). charitropakhyan, too, involves worship of the Devi and kal or Maha Kal (CHARITRA 405, CHHANDS 52, 77, 126 AND 132). CHANDI CHARITRA AND CHANDI DI // -126 PAGES, CHAUBIS AVTAR - 744 PAGES, BRAHM RUDRA AVTAR - 383 PAGES, CHARITROPAKHYAN AND HIKAYAT - 923 PAGES DASAM GRANTH DA KARITARTAV, PP. 38-45, PP. 92-97 Shri Guru Govind Singh ji's teachings and writings, in the Dasam Granth and beyond are full of praise of the Hindu philosophy and religion. One of his verses on the Hindu Dharam (or Dharma) and Khalsa Panth is as follows: sagal jagat mein Khalsa panth gajje | jage dharam Hindu sakal dand bhajai || Translation: - "Let the Khalsa panth (sect) become popular all over the world and let the Hindu Dharam (religion) wake up (or be enlighten) and all the bad ones run away." – ------------------- Nb : THIS DOES NOT HOWEVER MEAN THAT SIKSH ARE HINDUS OR THAT WE FOLLOW THE SAME PATH, IT JUST MEANS THAT THESE DEVIS AND DEVTAS HAVE A PLACE IN SIKH DHARM, DUE TO OUR GURUS EXPRESSING LOVE FOR THEM

ummmm, funny how Citizensoulaj you critcised me for not mentionign sikh parhaar, when Im merely asking my fellow sikh brethrne to be aware fo the Islamic threat, yet I note that in the three threads, where you go on and on...zzzzzzzzzz about a petty Bollywood film which hasnt even been made, yoru going hyper about taking action which involves Leaflets, petitions etc. PS : I am still waitng for you to show where I have said horrid things about any brother or sisters! IT IS you WHO HAS SADI HORRID THINGS ABOTU MY BROTEHR ADN SISTER -MR SOULJA, and as COV said change ur name! You are a HYPOCRITE , I notice that you havent taken your own advice why dont you instead : "mention SIKHI PARCHAAR ? or encourage your bothers and sister to attend the Gurdwara!!! -------------- Yes I said it woudl be nice to have the odds at 1 to 1 between sikhs and muslims ,but that does not mean I would not help a sikh brother or sister if they were out numbered!! Get YOUR prioties straigt, Sikhs being beaten up in England, told to take their turbans off or they wil get ripped off, sikh girls being covnerted to Islam is a more serious issue than a Bollywood film made 1000's o f miles away, that most Sikhs in the West DONT watch!

Rupinder Singh said : "we now live in a community with numerous split Gurdwaras, broken up by political alliance, caste, rehat maryada, regional origin and age. Look at this way, we’re a community that can fall out with each other and open a new Gurdwara down the road in a matter of days. We are a community that are willing to split the sangat based on our own groups agendas." ________ Excellent point!! I know of and have seen many so called Gian's come over to the UK, using the gurdwaras as an excuse to get into the UK, they then start normal jobs to make a livign and leave teh gurdwaras. I even heard of a "scam" up north about some guys charging people in India 5,000 pounds each to come over as Fake Gian's to the UK. These scam artists ABUSE their power in the Gurdwaras, to MAKE MONEY from people desperate to come over.

Calm down Citizen Soulja,their are three threads on thesame subject. Funny how u dont take your own advice, I remember how you "Arrogantly" advised everyone when it came to reports by myself and various other members of Sikhs being beaten up and having beer poured over their turbans follwing Pakistans victory at the cricket matches : You said : DO naam simran, everything will be ok, and called me " scaremongering" Yet you ; Mr "Im so scared of a Bollywood film", seem extremely flustered and angry about a film which hasnt even been made. Get real you dont even know what the script is yet and your jumping out of your pram! Even SENDING a petition at this stage is JUMPING the gun and sounds childish I would advise re the petition that it looks fairly weak at the moment, as full names and addresses of all those signing it must be MANDATORY, to make it look more authtentic; Otherwise it seems fake, as anyone can type many fake names! As for your your letter, their are parts that are good, but I think drags on a bit a bit. You go from sounding very intelligent , using good vocabulary to sounding quite amateurish in the first few paragraphs, DONT use words like Disgusting etc, as you sound too angry, stick to the cool intelligent approach. PS ; You criticised my use of flyer / leaflets, yet you want to borrow that idea for this cause???

THERE IS NO SEXUAL HARASSMENT, THIS IS A MISLEADING TITLE!!! PS: WHERE IS IT WRITTEN ON THE MOBS FOREHEADS THAT THEY ARE HINDU? THEY COULD BE MUSLIM, CHRISTIAN, JAIN, SIKH, BUDDIST OR AETHIEST?

what next a Jewish court for Jews and so on and so forth?

A Rakhri merely symbolizes a special day between brother and sister, it reminds brothers to look out for their sisters and vice versa. An excuse to give the daughter of the house a present / pyaar in the form of a gift. An excuse for a sister to go out and choose a nice rakhri for a brother. A way of promoting Love and Respect between siblings. I for one think it is a good thing and great tradition we have had for years

Well thats not a probelm thats a good thing. I know ur angry with me, because of that pic, in the pink shirt singh bling posted of you, but that has now been resolved; i was just having a laugh take it easy! Dont be upset, its too hot to let ur blood pressure rise that high, I dont want you to be ill, lol

I dont think every muslim is Bad, just 99 per cent,lol just joking

Most sikhs nowadays are about 5,8 slim or have pot bellies due to too much eating and not enough training, and have never seen a dumbell in their lives, how do u expect them to take on 5 muslim guys at one time? It would be much easier for them to start by takin on a muslim guy one on one

good to see people are doing sumthing

That is disgusting!!! This makes me sick and u seem proud to say this guys ur friend?? U put me off my lunch!! Man how could u be friends with such a guy?? So let me get this straight u dont mind a muslim marrying a Sikh girl, getting her to wear a head scarf , as long as other muslims say waheguru 2 u??? Balle, ur easily sold aren't u? U tried to convince these girls,adn they dotn listen??? well try HARDER, and if they dotn listen, talk to younger girls so they dont make the same MISTAKES! can u imagine a muslim biggin up sikhs if it was the other way round?? :o