Cisco_Singh

You'll probably find that the Gurdwara commitee has hired out the function hall to the hindu community for this Durga Puja event...I highly doubt it's a Gurdwara commitee organised event.I also highly doubt that it will involve any meat or alcohol...hindus being predominately vegetarian. You'll also find Ramgarhia Hall Leicester has also hired out there function hall for Navaratri functions...again nothing to do with the Gurdwara or comitess, it's a function for wich they have hired the hall out. The real question should be...should Gurdwaras hire out their dunction halls to non-Sikh communities..for any non-panthic, or non Sikh community functions ??

<br /><br /><br />Gatka never saved anyone, it's a circus entertainment act to please crowds...definitely not a real warfare art. Why do people still insist on telling fairy tales...

It's called intellectual discussion...as Sikhs's we should be seekers of the truth...we should not be scared to discuss controversial topics...and resort to calling them "nindiya" because we may not like the content or even if it goes again our own particular viewpoints.

There is several arguements for and against this topic... - Bottom Line is...SGPC Rehit Maryada does NOT forbid the eating of meat...the official line is the following must be avoided "2. Eating the meat of an animal slaughtered the Muslim way; " directly quoted from the SGPC website. - Nihang Singhs consider slaughtering animals by jhatka as an essential part of the warrior lifestyle "kshatri dharam" there is enough historical evidence to support this tradition dates back hundreds of years...they consider the meat slaughtered by jhatka as "mahaprashad". - Various Jathabandis, AKJ etc...jave there own Maryada and completely denoucne meat... It's basically a big can of worms...this topic has been discussed so many times and normally ends up with admin/mods closing or deleting the posts....you see "selective" use of bani and verses to tryand justify each parties patricular views...etc.. Each to their own..theres better and bigger things to worry about than who's eating meat and whos not,....

Look at the issue in the bigger scheme of things....it's not about the current generation, it's about futue generations.. It is everyones responsibility to carry Sikhi forward to the next generation.<br /><br />If today you have Sikh girls not wanting to get married to turban wearing Sikh males...i.e complete rejection of the image the Gurus created Sikhs in...you might think OK no big deal...they should have a choice..etc etc.. even though it's in complete rejection of Rehit Maryada, and at least 2 of Guru Gobind Singhs 52 Hukums... Personally I see this as a failing of therie parents to instil proper Sikhi knowledge and pride in the 1st place..<br /><br />What happens to the next generation..i.e: their kids, 99% there kids will also be monay, and be passed on the same warped, watered down values that their parents had...Slowly your wiping out a generations of Singhs internally...you dont need any enemies to do it for you...We are our own worst enemies..

It's a good video containing a lot of truths...The problem is your not getting the message through to the people who need it. Most of the girls who end up in such situations are generally not religious at all, have very little or no knowledge, are heavily westernised of bollywoodfied.. They are not going to visit places like SikhSangat etc...These sort of videos, material needs to be aimed at youth organisations...via colleges, 6th forms, university student groups etc..

<br /><br /><br />Your looking at things through blinkered eyes...cant see outside your own little world or opinion... This is becasue you cant differentiate between a sport art and real combat arts. - MMA is a sport art governed by rules for public viewing and enterntainment.. - A combat arts sole purpose is to damage, injure, kill, destroy the oponent through any means neccesary..., there are no rules...the arena is the street, battlefield etc. whatever situation arises hands free, weapons etc...you should be prepared for any situation... Hands free is a lower level skill than weapons based skills/ A combat art cannot be tested in a rules driven arena such as MMA and cage fighting ... The arts your referring to test in "competition" are sports arts... But your not going to agree your too blikered in your thinking because you've never expeienced or witnessed any true combat arts...your stuck listening to the opnions of the imemadite gym or trainers you train under... Would a MMA artist survive in the arena of a comabat art practioner ??...where there are no rules, any weapons that come to hand can be ueed, there are no banned strikes....eyes, groin, neck, throat, teticles,. nose...small joint manipulation, joint locks, breaks, chokes, strangualtion.. etc.. The compettion stops when the looser cannot fight any further..because either he is too injured to fight, quits via submission, knocked out..etc.. Look up Hadh Torh challeges on the Shastar Vidiya website. This is how combat arts are tested...not in rules drived arenas.. or at a next level in a real warfare situation...where by loosing probably emans you end up dead... Get yourself some experience of some real combat arts if you can find the right teachers to show you the real stuff...it will open your mind...

There is little point carrying a shastar if you dont have the training or knowedge on how to use it...in the case of a knife..your more likely to have it taken off you and having it used on you...You do realise should you stab someone with a shastar and not be able to prove justifiable force or self defecne...your likely to go to jail..Hence if you dont know the weapon and it's limitations, uses, boundaries...dont carry one. Before you carry shastar learn how to respect the shastar, take up the relevant training. You can even use a reasonably large kara as a shastar doesnt have to be a knife, you can use keys...slyh etc. I recommend you learn self defence and self preservtion, 1stly why cant you find an alternative safer route home through entries..where you know your more likely to end up in a situation...even if the other way is longer...if it's safer use it.

<br /><br /><br />No gatka cannot teach you anything useful in terms of self preservation and had to hand comabt...it has become a watered down circus act to entertain crowds...You must learn a proper combat art that ecompasses hand to hand combat, grappling, fighting multiples, bladed weapons and sticks etc.. There are few such arts which are openly taught these days, of the Puratan North indian and more recently Sikh arts..only Niddar Singh Nihang in the UK teaches Shastar Vidiya in it's pure form...However some people choose not to learn from him as they believe his belief system conflicts with their own.. Then there are the Filliono arts such as Panantukan, Kali, Eskrima which are also very good and encompass hands free and bladed weapons..Silat, syatma, savate are also useful along with krav maga...

<br /><br /><br />I highly doubt any of the above is true...yet more attempts at creating divides on castes lines...do you have any proof to back up your claims ?? Where was this youth Kirtan event held, who was the secretary, is there any video or audio evidence to abck up this claim... ??

Iphone 4g ? whats so special it's just more Apple marketing hype....it's not a lot different than the 3GS...Despite the name it is NOT a 4G phone as in 4G network support...it's a 3G phone...but "Apple 4th generation" - It's still using an out of date TFT Acive Matrix screen...other manufacturers have moved onto higher quality, lower power AMOLED screens. They can try and make up clever marketing words like Retina display etc...fact remains it's still TFT active matrix. - At the official launch Steve Jobs Apples CEO couldnt even get the Iphone 4 to conenct to the internet over WiFi or cellular...a bit embarrasing I think... - It's got a front mounted camera...but it only works over WiFi..thats right you cant do phone calls and use face to face....it only works with other Iphones as well..Again nothing new Nokia had this years ago...WITH face to face calling available on the 3 network...it never took off... - The only benefits I see...are the inbuilt Gyrosope, thinner case, and uprated camera. Good apps database and support, - Too little too late though...other manufacturers already have better cameras, true 4G network support, etc etc... - No doubt Iphone 4G will sell loads because of all the clever marketing and the Apple fanboys however... Perhaps the biggest issue is though...Apple have issues with Abode hence there will never be Adobe Flash support on the Iphone...85% of websites use Adobe Flash... Who writes the Gurbani apps,it might be worth dropping them an email and ask them to develop the apps for multiple platform...windows mobile, Android etc.. Then you wouldnt have to rely on Apple..

What an utterly useless thread, I agree this is a blatant attempt to cause divides on caste lines... - On the Jassa Singh Ramgarhia topic, there is indeed Ramgarhia Bunga at Amritsar in the Harmandir Sahib complex, there was also a Ramgarhia Bunga at Hazur Sahib..before they recentlly demolished it and also destroyed other historical property during the 300 saal celebrations... There are many Gurdwaras named after respected individuals other than the Sikh Gurus...There is in Birmingham Handsworth, a Baba Deep Singh Gurdwara there is also Gurudwaras called Gurdwara Baba Buddha Sahib, Gurdwara Bhai Mani Singh etc....Are you saying that all Gurdwaras with names other than those of the Sikh Gurus should be changed ??? - SGPC themselves are corrupt...bought into power with the help of the British in 1800's ... electing members etc...this is not tradiotional a institution..traditionally the head of Akal Takht was always the jathedar of Budha Dal..SGPC are responsible themselves for causing a lot of damage.

Yes, in this day and age you will almost definitely go to jail should you use any shasters..unless you can justify that the amount of force you used was neccesary for your self defence. It is compulsory for Sikhs to carry shasters at all times, this however is completely pointless if you do not have the martial training and knowledge on how to effectively utilise shasters. The majority of the time you may not even need to go anywhere neas shasters if you are skilled enough in hand to hand combat, weapons disarms, joint manipulation, etc etc.. Majority of Amritdharees who I know of, have no idea of any self defense and only carry a blunt shaster for symbolic value...which kind of defeats the object.

Whats wrong with WD40 ? That will do the job..Mustard Oil is smelly ..

Im not here to promote anything...just dispell some of the myth and nonsense that surrounds Gatka, it s not the traditional Sikh Martial Art...it is not a battlefield art, it contains a very small part of what may be called basic training for beginners.. If you want to learn about real blade skills or edged weapons...the Fillipino arts are far superior, Kali, Eskrima, Silat etc.. Your getting the picture slowly..you've acknowledge ...Gatka itself is not an art..it's a very small part of a much larger system encompassing..hand to hand combat, formation fighting, fighting against multiples, fighting with daggers, sword, mace, stick, Khanda, kirpan, club, sher panja, axe, lathi...and many other weapons... You see in modern Gatka, they use overlength weapons, weapons whose weight have been reduced..It's turned into an exhibition art like a circcus act for crowds...You even get non original weapons such as the spinning wheel thing that Gatak performers use... "Hit and run" I mean tactical retreat not what you seem you think run headfirst into the enemy...i.e: skirmish, fighting on the periphery ..and not directly engaging the enemy..either because you are outnumbered or outskilled... Anyway, the point is not to put anyone down...just to open peoples eyes a bit...

These are exactly the sort of fairy tales that have been spread for too long... You do not waste strikes by pointlessly swinging your weapon around, you manouver with pentra and out-think/decieve/over-extend the enemy etc...depending on what style you are fighting in, what the situation is, who the enemy is etc.. The blows you deliver are all targeted at vital points on the body, there are no wasted blows..when you strike the strikes are intended to destroy limbs, destroy structure, inflict killing blows...i.e: the art of "Chatka" swift clean kills....If you are out numbered, over-powered, you cannot directly engage the enemy you must employ a hit-and run startegy, "skirmishing" snd avoid directly engaging the enemy..instead you gradually wear them down.. It all changes depending on the siutation..it;s not as simple as swing your sword around ...not only does ths waste a lot of energy and movment...it is not efficient. What you do in gatka if you loose your weapons ? Is there any from or hands of hand to hand combat ? How do you fight when you are in battle formation ?.. Sword movement stopping arrows...be serious...mabe 1 or 2 arrows can be deflected...what your going to d when 20 , 30, 40 arrows are all coming towards you ?

<br /><br /><br />Go with the HTC Desire, it's better specced than the current Iphone 3GS for starters. Secondly it runs Android with a Snapdragon 1ghz CPU...which is going to kick off in a big way very soon..(googe Android 2.2 Froyo). The with Apple is they like to tie you in to "their" way of doing things...you have to pay for everything...nearly all apps you have to pay for, you have to use Itunes, you cant use Adobe Flash which is recognised Web standard (alrhough rumour is the Iphones CPU cant handle it properly). With Android most of the Apps on the Android martkeplace are all free, HTC are huge they make phones for a lot of other manufacturers (the Google Nexus 1 is made by HTC). HTC sense UI is also very good. Basially the Iphone has a lot of fanboys, it's popular through marketing. Apple is seen to be "cool". This doesnt neccesarily make it the better phone...it's technically outspecced and out performed by the HTC Desire...wait and see when Android 2.2 brings full Adobe Flash support. Basically theres no way the Iphone 3GS can compete with the HTC Desire...maybe the new Iphone 4G will bring something to the mix...But Apple should be scared with faster Snapdragon CPU;s coming along and talks of Google develping Android on tablet machines similar to the Ipad...the future looks intresting...Bottom line is Android is fully open source yur not restricted to doing things in Apples way...your free to use what apps you want...which is the way it should be,.

<br /><br /><br />Girls are not as thick and naive as people think...in this day and age everyone know has the education and knowledge. A lot of "so called" Sikh girl actively hand around/go out with mulsim/pakistani males they know exactly what theyre getting into, what the risks are... Maybe it's an act of rebellion a mess around which doesnt lead to long term relationship, marriage etc...etc.. I dont really know.. There will always be such cases, most are however non-practising/non religious Sikhs...they may well regret in the end...when theyre reputation is in ruins and no-one will go near them..

<br /><br /><br />"Sikhs called the Martial-arts Gatka" .. Not so sure about this...is there any historical texts from the time of Guru Hargobind or pre-1800 that even mention the word "Gatka" as a martial art. It is clear that Gatka can not be considered a martial art..certianly not as used by Sikhs in the battlefield... Yes there is no doubt there was a martial art...but it wasnt Gatka... Gatka is a very watered down version of fencing with sticks...or a exhobitionist performance art, rather than a lethal battlefield combat art..

<br /><br /><br />- Ok you still seem to be blurring the lines here between a Martial Art and a sport/competition art. Martial Arts are lethal combat forms using any means/weaponry possible "combat which leads to death or compelte incapatiion of the enemy". True warriors dont fight with rules, There is of cource protocol but no banned strikes no banned weapons. - The Octagon is a rules driven sport arena, The street, battlfiefield or warzone has no rules...Give a "proper" ninjitsu practioner weaponry and no-holds barred street environment (not the octagon) and it would be a different story. You have probably never seen a real puratan combat art form hence you are finding it difficult to compare the two.. Krav Maga like I said borrows much from other martial arts especially Panantukan.dirty boxing etc..it's not an original art...furthemore it has been watered down greatly...if you want to learn real Krav Maga...you need to learn from ex-isreali soldiers. Not the commercialised classes. - Does MMA teach any weaponry skills ? Blade skills, Sticks, etc ?? Add weapons and the whole game changes completely. - Does MMA teach you how to fight against multiple attackers (not a 1 on 1 ring environment), or how to fight in multiples ? - Higher level arts involve strategy, tactics it's a whole different mindset... Look up hadh-torh/bone breaking challenge on the Shastar-Vidiya webiste, this will give you an insight into how real combat arts practioners would test their skills against other fighters... it's very different from UFC. I agree UFC has to abide by laws and regualtions and has to have rules otherwise it will never be allowed on TV etc... - I recommed you go have a look at some of the Filipino Arts Panantukan, Kali, Eskrima. Theres a guy in the Midlands Coventry who is good Andre Martin, trained under Dan Inosanto Academy (Dan Inosanto trained under Bruce Lee as well as others.). - Also go and check out Niddar Singhs Akhara. - Find a "real" Ninjitsu school/teacher. You'll soon seen the differences. Go and have a look, carry on with the MMA stuff as well, but realise...when you havent see the real combat arts you cant make statements like MMA is the best and nothing else works etc.. The majority of martial arts have been watered down so much they have lost there original lethal effectiveness, they have been changed into sport arts for showcases and demonstrations..

Ninjitsu doesnt work ? lol...you obviously are confused between "sport" martial arts and true combat arts. Ninjitsu in it's pure form is a pure killing art battlefild proven in ancient Japan. on the battlefield there are no rules, there is no banned strikes or banned weapons....UFC is and always will be a rules driven "sport" it is not combat...UFC refused to let the Dog Brothers (stick fighting) get involved with UFC because they thought it was "too extreme"....lol.. So much for UFC being a hardcore art..."sticks are too brutal"... Do a google on Dog Brothers UFC you'll see the official UFC letter, A complete combat art requires knowledge of hands free combat, vital strking points on the body, ground fighting, fighting mutiples, strategy, tactics, weaponry skills bladed/non bladed, formation fighting etc...The object is to Destroy or incaacitate the enemy in the fast most effective way...this may mean breaking joints, chopping tendons/muscles, gouging eyes. Krav Maga also may be effective but it's been developed by copying/ripping-off/incorporating things from other martial arts..it's not a pure art it has no real history.. There are very few "real" combat arts, and even fewer teachers who will be willing to teach you due to their secretive nature. Anyway there is no point in arguing over such things...Bottom line is everyone should learn how to defend themselves should the need arise, so get yourselves involved in learning an art.

Yeh I agree, MMA is better than many commercialised martial arts...but MMA itself is watered down...many moves and strikes are banned in UFC it's goverened by too many rules. - Small Joint manipulation is banned. - Strikes to groin, eyes are banned. - Striking to the back when on the ground is banned, On the streets nothing is banned, anything goes...all the banned strike places "vvital points/kill points" are the bread and butter primary strike points of all real martial/battlefield arts..

I've been to the akhara to have a look, you can see as well as read on the website that the Vidiya is a complete system...i.e: there is a complete hands free sytem incorporating punching, kicking, grappling, joint locks, small joint manipulation, joint breaking etc.. Remember this is a battlefield syatem that covers all eventualities...if you loose your weapons the battlefield you must be skillied in hand to hand hands free otherwise you will basically be killed. Unamed fighting is known as "platha" and can use karas as striking objects, i.e iron fist boxing "loh mushti". The closest i've seen to this is the Filipino Panantukan hands free dirty boxing. But seriously chaps if you ever get a chance go and check out Nidhar Singhs akhara...I have seen and have knowledge of boxing, shotokan free style karate..i've been to a few eskrima/panantukan/kali classes and I can vouch that SV is very good. Where all these rumours about going to clubs, and pre-marital explouits etc etc...I never heard any such thinngs in the clasess I attended, I havent been for a while due to work commitments. Yes I wll admit the whole Sanatan Sikhi philospophy, etc..may not be consistent with your views...but this is not a religious class...it';s amartial arts class...go and learn the Vidiya take what you need... Peronally from what i've seen Nidhar Singh has a lot of haters..who for some reason or the other being insecure..like to spread false rumours about him on the internet..But they all lack the courage to go and confront him face to face intellectually or physically. Now before I get flamed, I am not a Sanatan Sikh, nor am I affiliated to any jatha or organisation. These are just my personal viewpoints I read a lot of negative things about Nidhar Singh on the internet, but whenever I spoke to martial artists I know, he was always highly respected...Anyway don listen to the fake stories,...go with an open mind and see for yourself...Or go the Martial Arts Show NEC ... and contrast and compare SV with the other arts..you'll see how unique it is and how much respect it gets from students/tachers of other arts... If you really dont want to go to the Niddar Singhs akhra then, learn the Filipino arts Panantukan, eskrima, kali from a PROPER instructor who will teach you the real stuff...not the watered down version..by real I mean..eye gouges, joint locks, knife skills etc.. Bottom line...ALL Sikhs boys and girls,.should learn how to defend themseves . Stop telling people that Gatka is a valid martial art...it is definiitely not. Do not learn any commercialised watered down arts. Cross train or study an art that encompasses boxing, grappling, kicking etc...

Fateh Ji I totally disagree, I think in todays day an age, we need to aquire skills and keep developing them.I advise all young Sikhs to get into boxing as its the quickest way to get someone down, then gradually moving into grappling etc. Gatka for me has become a show event but in an ideal world would not really help for self defence. bhul chuk maaf karni Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ke Fatteh shastar vidya/gatka wud be good if we started to revive it I have a feeling tht during the next few years things mite change all of us will realize ourselves and then begin to follow the miri piri way(spiritual physical political etc) WJKK WJKF! Shastar vidhiya also has it's boxing and hand to hand skills, i'm not saying not to pursue mma i actually would encourage it lol. Just saying i'd prefer shastar vidhiya/gatka over it. For a start forget about all the comemrcial martial arts Tae Kwon Do, Karate, Kung Fu etc...they have all been watered down...boxing is too 1 dimensional and will not stand up against a skilled opponent. Learn some pure martial arts which have true battlefield background such as the Fillipino arts Kali, Eskrima, Panantukan (hands free dirty boxing), Arnis is also good. Also forgrt about Gatka it's a waste of time jumping around with an oversized stick is not going to defend you on the street yet alone the battlefield..we all know Gatka is a watered down exhibitionist display art not a true battlefield combat system. Shastar Vidiya as taught by Niddar Singh in the UK is also very good from what I have seen of it is a no-nonsense pure no-holds barred art encompassing hands free, grappling, weapons, fighting multiples etc...A lot of sangat may not agree with Niddar Singhs views but for his efforts at promoting and teaching the art he must be respected, hi skill level has to be seem to be believed. Do NOT confuse Shastar Vidiya as with the exhitionist gatka stuff you see they are worlds apart. If there are any UK guys around, Nidhar Singh demonstrating at the Martial Arts Show Birmingham NEC in a couple of weeks go check it out.. Krav Maga the isreali art also looks intresting but it's no a unique art, it's copied from the filipino arts, still effective though. MMA is also worth learning but it is too much governed and run by rules..on the stree or battlefiels there are no rules..

<br /><br /><br />Naamdharis also do their lavan around the fire/havan in a anti-clockwise direction.,,is this also puratan ??? i.e: Mainstream Sikhs do their lavan around Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, in a clockwise direction does anyone know when this practise was started in what year ? Is it an SPGC creation ? i.e: Is this how the Guus's own weddings were conducted ?