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Absolutely love the sakhi of Guru sahib giving such a beautiful updesh to Pir Buddhu Shah. Gurbani redefines (where its required)/ reiterates muslim their own islam spiritual stages of development and gives updesh to muslims to rise their surti above from shariat, tariqat and into hakikat, marfat. This means- spiritual development stages already exist in islam as gurbani uses pre-existing frame work in islam - shariat, tariqat, hakikat and marfat to give updesh to muslims. These spiritual development stages were there before however were clouded/obscured by followers stuck in shariat or tariqat level turned into hadith style gospel truth... so gurbani raises followers bar by outright rejecting mindset of shariat followers / empty rituals, rituals turned into totally empty-dogma/useless so they can transcend into higher reality within islam. Here is my favourite shabad of transcendence updesh: Ang- 1083 saraa sareeath lae ka(n)maavahu || Let your practice be to live the spiritual life thareekath tharak khoj ttolaavahu || Let your spiritual cleansing be to renounce the world and seek God. maarafath man maarahu abadhaalaa milahu hakeekath jith fir n maraa ||3|| Let control of the mind be your spiritual wisdom, O holy man; meeting with God, you shall never die again. ||3 Gurbani message above resonates with general spiritual stage frame work applies to all and also Islamic HIGHER spiritual development frame work below :

Dasam dwar is one of many higher portals(pointers) through which one can access the absolute reality but its not the only portal. Sikhi is supreme as it connects to absolute truth via various aspects of divine (bhagti of sri guru granth sahib ji, shabad dhun-shabad guru-dasam dwar-, shabad shakti- dasam granth, and finally shabad gian- esoteric gyan aspect of shabad). Its blended beautifully in this shalok and ashtpadi of sukhmani sahib: Sargun Nirgun Nirankar Sun Smaadhi aap, apan kiya nanaka ape fir Jaap ||

Exactly spot on, the fact is most ultra conceptual (devoid of any practical living, experience just dry bankrupt incompetent conceptual knowledge) religious people fight among each other how their paths is more righteous, provides guarantee salvation and are sole custodians of truth but hardly anyone walk the walk. Religious hypocrisy is what gurbani warns us over and over again not to follow mindset of hindu and muslims bickering yet we are treading going towards following same path of hindu and muslim bickering and hypocrisy.

Sorry bro, didn't meant to confuse. Yes witness is just one intial lower state, intially you start with witnessing then moving to as singh598 said hold on to thinker or seer- which is beyond the thoughts, consciouness (surti) is pure unconditioned awareness- jot awakened light- (jot- knowledge). Start with descontruction process with bibek- what am i? What is sabstratrum essence of everything? Look beyond and see beyond thoughts and mind or even I consiciouness-being- what you see? you will feel sense of pure awareness knowledge thats is jagad jot-awareness light in all of us - thats what sri guru gobind singh ji is referreing to. It cannot be conceptually described but felt, abided in, lived through - thats all i can say. Everything will revealved to you beyond that by hakum unfolding, via divine insights etc. Thats correct Naam Simran(remembrance) probably more important than any vidhi, One needs bairaag to end suffering, absolute love desire for truth knowing yourself- (our jot saroop) has to be deep rooted before one can try different techniques -naam vidhi otherwise one can easily caught in divine expereinces, divine insights etc. Thats the very first thing one needs to do and one develop bariaag that by reading gurbani, listening to it, following it, applying it, understanding it, talking to guru via shabad, taking hakumnamas following through it etc.

It's ok nothing to be afraid of, we all going through this defining ourselves with thoughts from time to time (some more than others) but still all of us are still continue defining ourselves with thought. One of ways you can help your situation and this requires little bit of effort on your part its- deconstruction process - First initial step would be is to disconnect yourself from thoughts to the point you can see/hear your thoughts, you see your thoughts as not judgemental pure witness not analyzing/judging or doing anything with thoughts just simple witness (just like sky is not affected by clouds-thoughts- clouds appear and disappear on its own accord under sky just like that thoughts appear and disappear under our witness state) and then slowly you can transcend that too by catching hold of thinker or seer. Keep doing practise -holding on to witness and then seer- until it becomes habitual thing, once it becomes habitual thing- you will stop grasping/clinging on bad thoughts or even good thoughts in egoic conditioned mind quite naturally, it will fall off you will stop identifying with your thoughts-furna and then hakum will start unfolding itself and you will get divine insights- it will come to you naturally and unflold itself -guide you every step of the way further in your spiritual journey.

Most people will go through this shabad below just conceptually or intellectually. However, there is hidden vidhi in this shabad. This vidhi mentioned in shabad below by sri guru gobind singh ji himself is probably most direct, powerful and highest vidhi-nirgun abhed dhian/smadhi, this is where all vidhi ends. ਪੂਰਨ ਜੋਤ ਜਗੈ ਘਟ ਮੈ ਤਬ ਖਾਲਸ ਤਾਹਿ ਨਖਾਲਸ ਜਾਨੈ ॥ ਜਾਗਿਤ ਜੋਤਿ ਜਪੈ ਨਿਸ ਬਾਸ੝ਰ ਝਕ ਬਿਨਾ ਮਨ ਨੈਕ ਨ ਆਨੈ ॥ ਪੂਰਨ ਪ੝ਰੇਮ ਪ੝ਰਤੀਤ ਸਜੈ ਬ੝ਰਤ ਗੋਰ ਮੜ੝ਹੀ ਮਟ ਭੂਲ ਨ ਮਾਨੈ ॥ ਤੀਰਥ ਦਾਨ ਦਯਾ ਤਪ ਸੰਜਮ ਝਕ ਬਿਨਾ ਨਹਿ ਝਕ ਪਛਾਨੈ ॥ pooran joth jagai ghatt mai thab khalas thahi nakhalas janai. jagith joth japai nis basur eaek bina man naik n anai. pooran praem pratheeth sajai brath gor marrhee matt bhool n manai. theerathh dhan dhaya thap sanjam eaek bina nehi eaek pashhanai. Such a man, in whose heart shines the full Divinely Radiant Light is a true a pure Khalsa. He the Khalsa meditates on the Ever-radiant Light, day and night, and rejects all else but the one Lord from the mind. He decorates himself with perfect love and faith, and believed not in fasts, tombs, crematoriums and hermit cells, even by mistake. He knows none except the one Lord in the performance of acts of pilgrimage, charities, compassion, austerities and self-control. This ever-radiant light/knowledge (Jagad jot) is already in all of us as jot roop our real self as enlightened self realized undivided spacious radiant unconditioned pure jagad (awakened/pure awareness). Seeker needs to stop identifying with conditioned mind thats done by initially by witnessing the thoughts only, in fact no need to stop mind thoughts as mind will automatically fall off, just simply abide in this pure jagad (awakened/pure awareness)- see through world as one in all, all in one- perceive everything manifest rising and subsiding as wave from your real self in real self- awakened-aware-jagad jot- pure ocean of awareness, thats all is required until grace dawns..everything will happen spontaneously and naturally... If you have deep impulse or drawn towards this vidhi you are quite lucky thats grace itself, if not its ok take the vidhi which you are more drawn towards under guidance of panj pyares. Everything is grace-introvert itself grace from satguru, perseverance is also grace from satguru, realisation is also grace from satguru I would say also naam simran is probably first priority than naam dridh or any jugti/vidhi because naam simran (truth-remembrance which develops bairaag/love) has to be deep-rooted in one first one can go on use naam dridh or various naam jugti/vidhi to do jaap otherwise ego kicks in- start turning this naam dridhi or any vidhi into - sense of accomplishment, stages, spiritual aim, higher or lower state of consciousness, ego camping out at 3rd eye, shabad resonance, dasam dwar. All these higher states are good to have but they are relative truth they are not there from absolute point of view*, and in order to transcendent them (if they come in your path) or abandon need for them you need absolute unconditional love for truth (naam) and bairaag which only naam simran -truth remembrance takes you deeply. And the beauty of naam simran, there are no technicalities of it- its not vidhi or naam dridh, so anyone can do it as there are no complexities as its remembrance you just honesty, earnestness, absolute desire for truth-naam and slowly truth will throb on you too unexpectedly by absolute truth-Ikongkar. We think as if ikongkar (truth) is dead and relative but truth is alive- HERE AND NOW, this absolute truth- bhramgyan is one in all, all in one- every much happening all the time here and now. *From absolute truth view/perspective standpoint (Ikongkar/Mool Mantar), there are no relative truths or states its only ONE non dual(Advait-Ikongkar) absolute reality. Just like sea is not aware of its wave (no separate I distinction or relative truths or reality), just like that from absolute view- absolute is not aware of its relative truths/reality It's all ONE in all, ALL in ONE...!!

Indians including Sikhs in punjab (not limited to indian but asian people in general) have some what issue of self loathing or punjabi saying- ghar ki murgi dal barabar. They would reject their own enrich history given by their own sikh parcharik but go outward toward western euro centric people and see what they have to say- seek their approval or opnion..This is probably due to british influence over mental psyche since british umpire ruled them for centuries. So what we need to do strategize it, use that at our advantage, we need send anglo "white" amritdhari tyar bar singh (perfabable ex christian convert) who can speak punjabi go to punjab do parchar. If people don't want 3ho to take this intiative (even though they are already doing it in large numbers under amritdhari gursikh from udasi/nirmala/nihang background guidance), if people don't want 3ho going in punjab do parchar its fine, you can get white amritdhari AKJ, Taksal, Nihang so on and forth (I may have serious idealogical differences with AKJ but when it comes to sikh quantity numbers i am with their parchar and intiatives/seva etc) train them as missionaries under guidance of senior mahapursh/gursikhs and send them to back home to get real results. It just unfortunate it has to be that way but thats the mindset of our people so instead of mourning about it we can use that as our advantage. Trust me, it will bring some awesome results. I have experimented similiar things in real life, where our people didn't want to read punjabi translations by punjabi take the material as as pinch of salt by punjabi people but as soon some gora-white centric figure says the same thing in punjabi or english all of sudden that pinch of salt perception becomes pearl of diamond.

I start drinking northern delight tea, very good herbal tea with no caffine- http://www.deliceboreal.com/en/

This is very good questions and answers from kirtan sohila translation from japji sahib teeka by sant gyani gurbachan singh bhindranwale.

I have both books, they are excellent resource..clears lot of misunderstanding, phobias, paranoia so on and so forth. According to my research and understanding, GURMAT is not raw form of vedanta but rather GURMAT reiterates its own(Gurmat Gyan) universal soul science of unity between atma-paratma. This universal soul science of unity between atma-paratma is also shared by other mystic traditions such as advaita vedant, sufism, mahayana buddhism etc. For eg - When it comes to mahavaks - great unity statements between jiv and bhram. Gurbani has many mahavaks compare to only four in vedas. So GURMAT/Gurbani is superior, sutantar(unique) when compare to other traditions...But when other gnosis esteroric mystic traditions also speak universal soul science and speak their own mahavaks great statements of unity between jiv and bhram, in that context Gurmat is compatible with them. Here are some references from sant gyani gurbachan singh bhindranwale explains comparison between Gurbani and Vedas, giving credit where its due while clearly holding GURMAT is supreme, sauntantar-unique. http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?/topic/68213-vedas-and-gurbani-whats-the-truth-and-what-is-not/?p=612514 http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?/topic/74815-deep-gnosis-behind-mahavak-in-gurbani/

Practical reasons make sense but found symbolic meaning after speaking to senior gurmukh especially after coming across this picture of sant mani singh ji sitting on tiger skin rug indoors:

Basically, i was told by senior gurmukhs these gurbani mahavaks are not jaaped in conventional sense but rather contemplated upon deeply and also these statements are lived/felt/sensed through by abiding in them functioning through them.

Japji sahib translation by sant teja singh ji mustaneywale double ma is pretty good. Check it out: JapJi_Sahib-_A_Translation_Sant Teja Singh Double MA.pdf

In case, people missed this thread, here is thread dedicated to sikh women/parcharaik: http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?/topic/70272-thread-dedicated-to-sikh-woman-parcharikhssants/

Totally agree with truth5..just to add - Yes recitation is important to increase flow of energy- increase surti-concentration or if you are using specific viddhi to start ajaap jaap. I know stories of gurmukh who used to finish sukhmani sahib in their total 24 breath. 24 astphadi = 24 breath. This increases concentration (if you have issue with mind wandering) significantly on shabad only invoking- amrit ras since body breath is connected with mind totally. In this way, mind does not wander away- one gets peace listening sukhmani sahib. But application of gurbani teaching or vichar of gurbani to your life supersedes everything above as slowly with mannan/nidashan on gyan of gurbani. Gurbani will start drawing you in towards itself automatically breaking your conditioning mind slowly (in adhyatam they call it- gurbani surti nuo blean kar dindi hai for bhramgyan color). Sri guru nanak dev ji already listed sidhant of gurmat in - sunaie, manae, nidhasan pauri of japji sahib. With sunaie (listening to gurbani) in receptivity without conditioned thoughts or mind- gurbani gives sehaj dhian - spontaneously draw consciouness inward towards sat reality, with manan- application of teaching of gurbani in daily life- gurbani breaks egoic conditioned thoughts or neurotic desire of always thinking- thoughts and defining itself with it and finally transcending through nidhasan in japji sahib is for gyanis (both parkosh and aparkosh gyan) who believes, feel, finally experiences advait gurmat- one non duality reality- everything is one, all in one, one in all.

Not sure about getting leprosy but sitting on tiger skin rugs is not childs play. It has great symbolic significance in various mystic gnosis traditions. In this context, tiger symbolises one's ego so sitting on signifies one has dissolved its ego in their real self- Parbrahman or conquered their ego.

Agreed bro, same urgues , five vices affect hetrosexuals as well so both of sexual oreintation are affected by five vices both also be controlled. Both homo and hetro sexuals respective patnership is already pre-ordained limited to parladbha karam..Both have five vices maya game infront of them, both are equally capable to go beyond them and should go beyond five vices these can be done connecting with naam leading to connect to undivided supreme real self (Atma-paratma).

Waheguru does not hate anyone. Both homosexuals spouse and hetrosexuals spouse are fully capable, have full right to go beyond their sexual orientation (keep their respective sexual orientation) and connect with god via gurbani / real self-atma-paratma are entitled to gyan of bhram (Bhramgyan) there is no christian rule(homosexual doomed to hell) as such according to gurbani sikh theology. (This has to be understood by those who are staunch against homosexuals) But with being said, from khalsa tradition chivalry-maryada aspect of Waheguru-Gur maryada homosexuals are not meant/cannot be in physical marriage. (This has to be understood by homosexuals who play victim card and bring all sort of lefty hippy justification and quote non duality from gurbani to justify their action). Khalsa living is definitely middle way not right wing nor left wing.

http://www.gurmatveechar.com/audios/Katha/01_Puratan_Katha/Sant_Gurbachan_Singh_%28Bhindran_wale%29/Guru_Granth_Sahib_Larivaar_Katha/Volume_04_Ang_0250-0346/35-Sant.Gurbachan.Singh--Raag.Gourhi--Ang.290%2B291.%28Sukhmani.Sahib%29.mp3

Sant gurbachan singh bhindranwale in sukhmani sahib 21st astphadi below talks about bhramgyani gyan parloa avastha- turiya atith avastha -maha samadhi stage (stage of karak mahapursh like sant ajit singh hansali wale among others)- full absolute view so this is not just state of absolute which is out there some where above in sky in void this is very much LIVE and in experience yet beyond expereince as it transcedent all in non transcendental state ਜਬ ਏਕਹਿ ਹਰਿ ਅਗਮ ਅਪਾਰ ॥ जब एकहि हरि अगम अपार ॥ Jab ekėh har agam apār. When there was only the Lord, Unfathomable and Infinite, ਤਬ ਨਰਕ ਸੁਰਗ ਕਹੁ ਕਉਨ ਅਉਤਾਰ ॥ तब नरक सुरग कहु कउन अउतार ॥ Ŧab narak surag kaho ka▫un a▫uṯār. then who entered hell, and who entered heaven? Who was avtar? Closest best possible analogy (for understanding purposes not exact analogy) is given which everyone can relate to, even doubters or denials cannot deny it - is state of deep sleep, these relative realities does not arise or subsides in deep sleep because they don't exist in experience. So how can these relative realities be absolute? Finally, I am not denying kalki avtar will come, off course it will come as its written in dasam granth..what i am saying one needs to see it from absolute so these things appear and disappear in from absolute and back in absolute so one does not carry away in relative realities and mistakenly take them as absolute reality. Many muslims, christians, hindus have fallen into this trap looks like many of us also do as we have crazy problem with personality worship as we forget about the source. Sikhs already been cautioned in gurbani and sri dasam granth(every living thing swallowed by kaal-primal force- this example is shown to rise perception of seeker from relative to absolute) by our guru sahib so we don't fall into same trap. In fact our mool mantar, gurbani mahavaks of unity make sures there are no separate relative reality on its own-sargun and nirgun is one in full harmony/unity to the point its all ONE there are no distinction. So whenever we talk about sargun reality on its own and totally ignore nirgun-absolute in harmony with sargun then there is a problem in mindset.

All chaubis avtar including kalki, nehkalank are subjected to relative reality or truth and are in relative reality only. From absolute point of view, its all one in all, all in one no one higher or lower..Only one jot there are no duality as such no distinction. So yes we can talk about relative reality as we are in relative world see things as relative but we should not loose touch with absolute view because if we loose touch with absolute point of view in gurmat then we can easily get carried away in relative realities and make that our reality instead of abiding in absolute reality/truth. In fact Sukhmani sahib cautions seeker and challenges view of seeker who have made relative reality into absolute and quizzes a seeker- encourages seeker to transcendent from relative truth to absolute. ਜਬ ਏਕਹਿ ਹਰਿ ਅਗਮ ਅਪਾਰ ॥ जब एकहि हरि अगम अपार ॥ Jab ekėh har agam apār. When there was only the Lord, Unfathomable and Infinite, ਤਬ ਨਰਕ ਸੁਰਗ ਕਹੁ ਕਉਨ ਅਉਤਾਰ ॥ तब नरक सुरग कहु कउन अउतार ॥ Ŧab narak surag kaho ka▫un a▫uṯār. then who entered hell, and who entered heaven? Who was avtar?

If people have any specific questions for me, please take it over pm or email me or even better alternative public forum sphere where there are no rules of engagement- www.sikhawareness.com as i more inclined to freely express myself there. I will not be responding to anymore queries on this thread or going off-topic on this thread.

This is good interesting point.I myself struggle with this point many years ago. I can see why youths can easily get confused or fall off in this easy precedence. I would say its quite difficult and quite slippery slope to give proper concentrate one fold answer to this. I would say it was exceptional circumstances cannot be followed blindly by mass solution to an issue or quick fix. On one hand, you don't want above example to be set as precedence (which often happens or gets hijacked by right wing groups which misinterpret dharma) or above perceived percedence followed by mass as mass would probably see this as superseeding dharam teaching-dya/dharam, guru maharaj - teaching(dya/pen/sword-sant/sipahi) in zafarnama as mass is not yet deep rooted in sant aspect in dharma or receptive towards unfolding hakum in one's unconditioned untouched pure lotus surti(intuition). On second hand, you don't want above sacrilege beadhi go by either let maha beadhi against our guru sahib go by idle. I would say proportionate response is needed. If pen-zafarnamah by sri guru gobind singh ji via shabad power , tremble aurenzeb and his hakumat then we should not under estimate momentum/power of word-shabad or guru maharaj pen tradition (in zafarnama) either. Power of shabad and pen has inherent power and authority in them especially if it comes directly from unconditioned untouched pure lotus surti(intuition/consciouness). My hope would be sikhs shouldnt take quick fix route-use un proportionate force and hope they will be deep rooted in shabad and let hakum unfold itself whatever the outcome be than conditioned mind take control and use selective examples from history, make precedence out of them.

Mysterious power makes sure no one gets free sachkhand express card just because they look certain way. Its fine balance to keep singh humble, stakes really really high, to break obnoxious conceptual illusory image worship mindset -just because you kesh and dhari, nice dummala you must be chardi-kalah. In Jaap Sahib Guru Gobind Singh Ji gave Waheguru the epithet 'Garb Gunjan' meaning 'destroyer of false pride' who just have false pride in imagary only (not action-sikh karni and image-combined). There are some very important lessons in that.

According to my research, Sikhism is quite deep as it connects and talks to all aspects of One Universal God/Waheguru - Bhagti(devotional), Shakti (creative/destructive energy-Khanda-Bhaugti-Sword), Shabad (primal essence of sound via various pointers in body and via final pointer in body tenth door) and finally Shabad Gian - (God's divine pure knowledge -Bhramgyan) . I just wanted to point absolute truth statements (here are some of many) in Sikhi which may help you understand foundation in Sikhi. Once foundation is understood then one can see relative truth in its context. Sikh foundation is laid by Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji in Mool Mantra- Ik Oankar - One universal Eternal unchanged Awareness Being-Light-Knowledge- God- all in one, one in all- expressing itself in its movement - creating, preserving and changing creation spontaneously. Satnaam- which is Eternal Absolute Eternal existence truth, Kartapurkh- creative Consciousness, Nirbhauo- Fearless as resides in all (Fearless) Nirvair- No enmity towards anyone as resides in all (Without Enemy) Akaal Morat- Timeless being Ajooni - Unborn Saibhang- Self-illuminating/Knowledge Gurparsad- Awareness Consciousness Bliss and its realized by Gurparsad- by grace of Guru. In Sikh theology, Guru or its grace cannot be confined into person or physical thing as essence meaning of Guru is (Ikongkar) pure eternal awareness consciousness-chaitan which then immanent itself in its forms - physical living Guru scripture- Sri guru granth sahib (Sargun), Para Shabad (Celestial emanations of primal sound), Intuitive Divine guidance (bibek)..This immanence is based on individual seekers- spiritual development states as this immanence helps seeker through spiritual journey every step of the way. Ultimately aim of Sikh is to remove ignorance, remove doership (Ego) by grace of guru and realize absolute Non duality Truth - Sargun Nirgun Nirankar Sun Samadhi aap apan kiya nanaka Ape fir Jaap ||