esingh

The bani you talk of is from Sant Kabir who wasn't Muslim. Baba Farid never preached against Islam and its pillars but rather criticised those who indulge in rituals and whose spirituality remains rock bottom. These rituals then become meaningless. Look at his lineage he is descended from Ali, the cousin of the muslim prophet Muhammad and therefore considered Sayid. Fareed's devotion to the Muslim prayer; Uṯẖ Farīḏā ujū sāj subah nivāj gujār. Rise up, Fareed, and cleanse yourself; chant your morning prayer. ਜੋ ਸਿਰੁ ਸਾਂਈ ਨਾ ਨਿਵੈ ਸੋ ਸਿਰੁ ਕਪਿ ਉਤਾਰਿ ॥੭੧॥ Jo sir sāʼn▫ī nā nivai so sir kap uṯār. ||71|| The head which does not bow to the Lord - chop off and remove that head.(He is not saying to others but to himself) ||71|| If you still don't believe he was Muslim or believed in the pillars of Islam you can go the death anniversary they have every year for him in Pakpattan, Punjab Pakistan and the thousands there will be shocked at the very thought of what has been mentioned above. Here is his biography, from a sufi site and yes he fasted and did all things regular Muslims do. The same applies to all the other sufi sants. http://www.aulia-e-hind.com/dargah/Intl/Baba_Fareed_Ganj_Shakar.htm Sufism is part and parcel of Islam, ACCORDING to the Sufis, go ask them. The key thing is their interpretations of Islam. Yes the Taliban have attacked his tomb and followers but the Taliban are the equivalent of the Mughal oppressors of old where as the sufis are the decedents of those who were companions of our masters. If they were alive today they would be loved and adored in Pakistan and you can see that with the millions of sufis there and the massive urs shareef they have for him every year.

That's true. The bulk of our community however came over from the 50's onwards. Many of them were serving veterans and came on the military visa scheme, alongside workers from Punjab. We then had a influx from African Sikhs, from Kenya, Uganda, Siera Leone etc. Our most recent additions have been the Sikh Afghan community.

The demonstration was the official one organised by the EDL. So someone who is at the demo, is chanting their slogan and commits a crime suddenly is an outsider? Would you give the same leeway to an Islamic extremist group who did the same? No you wouldn't. The video hasn't escaped the attention of many black folk, where it has been posted on their message board along with others. Anger is massive. As for what you said about Islam, that' in stark contrast to what my master, the king of kings, the saint of saints, Guru Gobind Singh jee said; "The temple or the mosque are the same, the Hindu worship or the Musalman prayer are the same; all men are the same; it is through error they appear different. Deities, demons, Yakshas, heavenly singers, Musalmans and Hindus adopt the customary dress of their different countries. All men have the same eyes, the same ears, the same body, the same build, a compound of earth, air, fire, and water. Allah and Abhekh are the same, the Purans and the Quran are the same; they are all alike; it is the one God who created all. The Hindu God and the Muhammadan God are the same; let no man even by mistake suppose there is a difference." I'll end it that.

What a fool. Report him for abuse. Sadly we have a great deal of these idiots on the net abusing people.

Careless comments indeed. But like I have said on another thread, it is time we move on from all these old faces. We need fresh faces who can make our name shine.

Sangat TV should start off afresh. This holding onto the old apna vanguard of presenters such as Deol isn't the right approach. But then part of me says she might do ok?

Sadly the EDL is against Muslims as a whole and I can give a long list of speeches and videos of their leaders saying Islam is evil blah, blah. They march into areas hurling abuse at their women and children and chant vile, disgusting things such as "Allah is a .....", you get the message. Would we ever tolerate such an organisation that did the same? Let's hypothetically say an Indian nationalist organisation was set up, that targeted Khalistan supporters, or in their mind extremists. They would say that our Gudwaras were preaching hate, organised marches to Sikh dominated areas, hurling abuse. We would go mad. Here is a video of them just last night trying to attack any black youths they saw. People can say what they want but when the crap hits the fan these people go back to their basic instincts of hating people. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rC_VsYxLao4

I can assure you the same people who were outside last night and the previous nights have also been on hand to counter such things. So your argument isn't right brother.

Muslim and extremists. Now which religion did these noble personalities, who aided our faith belong to brother? Baba Bulleh Shah Baba Farid Pir Budhu Shah Mian Meer Nabi Khan Gani khan

Baba Mardana Nabi Khan Gani Khan Pir Budhu Shah Baba Farid Bulleh Shah The list goes on.

Good ideas but like someone has already mentioned Gatka is important as a weapon art. Most of the hoodlums were all armed and henceforth weapons training is vital. Shield are a good idea as well i.e. storing them.

Did you actually watch any of the footage from Sangat TV? They were praising us and certainly not laughing. As for the rest, the chances of that diminish as having seen their reactions, especially of the youth they don't want relations to sour.

They did in Southall and asked to come to the Gudwaras in Birmingham, we already had enough Sikhs there.

Brothers and sisters everything is ok. There has been visual confirmation.

Just saw the march on Sangat TV. It was Muslim Pakistanis marching in memory of the three lads killed. At the end of the march the reporter gave the microphone to the crowd and one by one they all thanked the Sikh community and gave them a massive round of applause. Some went as far as to say the Sikhs have done more for us than anyone ever. It was really nice to see that. Once again Sangat TV well done. On a side point the amount of positive PR our community is getting is fantastic.

May the sangat honour your call. Paa jee how about phoning some of the bigger Gudwaras if they can spare people, or put out a message?

Begin to incorporate Sikhi into your life practically. Things don't happen overnight and if you are just riding off the emotions of the past few nights, it is likely you could resort back to your previous state. Go to the ghar of Waheguru first, open your heart and the rest will follow. If you need practical day to day help, the company you keep is a good way to facilitate you embracing Sikhi. So making friends amongst practising Sikhs is important. As for self image, on one hand you have the eternal creator and the other just creations of his, who would you want to please? Start off slow brother and visit the Gudwara on a regular basis and then maybe keep your hair and so on.

SarabhaPanjab jee, good advice. I did see the father of one of the boys coming out and telling people not to escalate this and may Wahe Guru honour him, he was very brave and dignified in the event of his son's death. He just declared it god's will and said everyone was his brother and sister. Hopefully people will listen to his message. This could have easily been three of our youth. I posted some stuff about how the community can defend ourselves from these car assaults. I mean let's be honest. The way so many of us are standing together, by the roadside it would be easy to mow people down.

Did anyone else laugh at the 1.16 (hoi, door bandh gar deh) and 2.42 (ider maar camera yaar) Anyhow great job by the Sangat team.

Agreed with all the above. Sangat TV has done a great job.

Bole So Nihal Sat Sri Akal! Good news and much love to my brothers.

This is also important for us. Because so much of the sangat was and still is standing outside like these guys were, we have failed to take into account hit and run car attacks. If we are to stand outside, stand behind makeshift barricade. Something simple such as concrete blocks and a girder. This gives you enough time to get out of the way.

As I understand from Sangat TV the three youth who were killed were from the Pakistani community. There were cars being driven past at high speed and rioters were shouting abuse. One of these cars then mounted the pavement hitting and killing two at the scene and the other guy died in hospital. The car drove off. The black gangs are so cowardly and can't even step out to fight and engage in such acts. My prayers are to their families. Sangat TV link. Elder brother of the two died comes out of the hospital crying. More on the story http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/3743791/Murder-hunt-as-3-die-in-Birmingham-after-crash.html I just hope this does not get out of hand now. There has been talk of massive retaliation, but their community has to realise the driver has been caught and will be charged.

Bro, I don't see this being forgotten. This has been the worst civil unrest for four decades! The riots of the past in the capital e.g. Notting Hill have been confined to certain areas. In this case we have seen the entire capital hit and cities up and down the country. Also the reputation of the Afro-Caribbean and black community has just sunk to rock bottom. The implications for the police are huge as well, as the government was considering cuts, those won't happen now.

Just taking a look at what other communities are doing. Turkish community bands together to meet black youth gangs. Video of Turkish men chase down rioters, rioters run off! http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/video/2011/aug/09/london-riots-london