pedrorizzo

Well then dont worry yourself about it. Talk soon. bye

Ok.... well the specifics depend on which baba you follow. I dont want to offend anyones baba so I wont go there.

Well then according to your definition, there are no Sikhs on this planet, or very very few in number. And that most likely means that you and I are not Sikhs either doesnt it? And I have read your version of history in your post. Frankly, it is a comic book version that they teach kids in Punjabi school. Personally, I like to study history in a bit more depth and try and draw analysis from it regarding how it might be relevant in modern times.

Sorry dude.... dont agree with you there... everything you said sounds pretty idealistic and disconnected to the real world to be honest. Still fair enough, thats your opinion

Alot of Sikhs, and alot of Indians for that matter seem to believe that a great spiritual leader will come to Earth and save them and solve all of their problems. From my understanding this is actually contrary to Sikh teachings anyway. Guru Gobind Singh ji saw the Kirpan (sword) to be the greatest of miracles as it was a symbol of direct action by which an individual or nation can determine its own destiny. If you look at how Sikh power emerged in the 17th Century, it was largely opportunistic in nature. The Mughal empire cracked and crumbled so the Sikhs slowly filled the gaps. Then you have Maharajah Ranjit Singh, who, in reality, was nothing more than a highly intelligent and ambitious Sardar of one of the Sikh Misls who basically conquered over the territory of the other Misls using a mixture of violence, diplomacy and bribes... some people loved him and others cursed him, however, everyone had to bow down to his superiority... he became top dog. Hence, if a great Sikh leader does emerge, I believe that one is more likely going to have to fight their way to the top and crush the opposition. The second way that a leader could emerge is by being outspoken and capturing the imagination of the public in some way. However, this kind of leader would need the right timing and right environment in which to emerge. In this day and age, if a leader like Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale was to emerge, it is probable that most people wouldnt listen to him because most Sikhs dont seem to believe that Sikhi is under threat enough. For example, If you take a look at someone like Baljit Singh Daduwal, he uses a similar style of rhetoric that Jarnail Singh used to use but who listens to him? Not many people to be honest. However, if things got really bad in Punjab, or more importantly, they were perceived to get really bad in Punjab amongst the mass populace, its quite possible that people would flock to someone like him and listen to what he had to say.

Yes alot of Sikhs are hypocrites. The original poster is correct in pointing out that people pick and choose which Akal Takhat desicions they support and which they do not. Alot of this comes down to if the desicion is in keeping with their own views and preferences, and the views and preferences of the jathebandi with which they are involved. However, politics is not the only part of life in which most people pick and choose, most people pick and choose in their practice of Sikhi. How many Sikhs wear the panj kakkar but dont do their nitnem in the morning? How many Sikhs do loads of paath and sewa but dont keep their kesh? And not to mention, how many Sikhs wear full bana, do nitnem and sewa but carry a huge ego, look down on people in judgement and show aggression and violence against those they disagree with? My point is nonone is perfect, most just pick and choose what part of Sikhi they want to follow whether they admit it or not, and most will follow/disregard the Akal Takhat's authority according to if it suits them or not. I prefer to live and let live to be honest.

Disgusting bully boy behaivour. Totally inexcusable

I'm not a supporter of badal, and I'm not ignoring the 'evidence'. Im just trying to provide a slightly different perspective.

hahahahahahahahaha

He did not venture South, because the Sikh kingdoms placed there did not want to be taken over by him so they voluntarily accepted a British protectorate. Therefore if Ranjit Singh went South and tried to invade those territories, it would be classed as an invasion of British owned soil and a declaration of war. By signing a treaty with the British in 1809, this was made official. The British would not move north, and Ranjit Singh would not move South. Ranjit Singh wisely signed the treaty as he knew that his army was not strong enough to take on the British at that time, otherwise he would have taken over those kingdoms as well. The point I was trying to make by going back in time to Maharajah Ranjit Singh was that, many people dont realise that he was just as ambitious and power hungry as any other leader... he created his kingdom through a mixture of bribery, violence, diplomacy, invasion, buying loyalty and by placating other communities within Punjab. I was trying to draw parallels in the way that Badal is building his power base today, compared to how Ranjit Singh did it two hundred years ago. I am curious to know how Badal will be judged 200 years from now, and how he will be lionized by his supporters and cursed by his enemies.

Well personally, I dont think that Badal is is anti-panthic in the way that is being alleged by some. I think that he is in the power game and is playing survivalist politics in the dirty jungle that is Indian politics. He knows that the Sikh vote in Punjab is not big enough to keep the Akalis in power, hence he has to make alliances with the BJP, the dodgey deras and cults, and keep the large number of Hindus and non-Sikhs in Punjab happy at the same time. Regarding his attitude towards Sikhs, yes he is harsh, corrupt and power hungry, like all other Indian politicians. However, lets face it, we as a Sikh Community are a very difficult community to rule... everybody wants to be a leader and rule over their own piece of turf. Every jathebandi wants to be in charge of the Akal Takhat and have its control over the SGPC, so that its own version of Sikhi can be preached. We are also a very volatile community. We moan alot and we are ready to chop people up at the slightest insult. We have a habit of picking fights that we cant win, which result in more self sabotage that actually having any positive impact. Anyone who is going to rule over us Sikhs... well good luck to them. They will need to use a mixture of carrot and stick. Form alliances, buy loyalty, make compromises and come down mercilessly on the opposition. We have a rose tinted view of history.... Anyone who thinks that Maharajah Ranjit Singh did not do the same, needs to go back to the history books and actually have a closer look as to how he created his empire and came close to uniting the all the Sikhs (he could not conquer the Sikh territories south of the Sutlej). I am not saying that Badal is good. However, I think that allegations that he is actively trying to destroy the Panth are far fetched. Some of this comes down to would you be prefer to be ruled by a corrupt Sikh party or a corrupt non-Sikh party? I think Id take the corrupt Sikh party.

ok

I knew people would. However, do you honestly believe that reviving the kharkoo movement will do Punjab any good? Going purely by what happened last time, I think not. Please explain to me why think it would.

One thing I will say that I respect about Badal, is that he does come down hard on 'trouble-makers' in Punjab. Sure, there are lots of anti-Sikh activities going on in Punjab which need to be dealt with peacefully. However, revival of militancy will not help Punjab or do anything for Sikhi. It will only cause harm and put Punjab back another 20 years. I honest believe that Badal has got it right on that front... and I suspect that everyone on the forum will jump on me for saying it...

Fighting is not fun or pretty. There are no winners in a street fight. Stay safe, walk away, and dont let 'the black dog' haunt you at night... telling you should have done this and you should have done that. You did the right thing.... you walked away. However, it is still good to train and do martial arts when the option to walk away is not their for you, or you have to help a friend or loved one.

Sikhs in the west mainly judge badal purely by Sikhi standards, his practice of Sikhi and how if at all he has the helped the Sikh community or Sikh cause. People in Punjab judge him by economic, monetary, legislative standards, in the same way that we judge the government of the country that we live in. Badal is corrupt and is a sneaky politican through and through. However, politics in India is a dirty and corrupt game, and anyone that plays it is gonna have to get dirty. Punjab is a country where you have to buy loyalty, so Badal buys it left, right and centre. The main problem I have with Badal is that he is trying to monopolize Sikhi and monpolize the Akal Takhat and the SGPC. However, I do not believe that any individual, whether Sikh or non-Sikh should have that much power. The fate of these important panthic institutes should lie only in the hands of the Sangat itself

The boys did very well have clearly got some skills. However, bleeding on TV and slicing yourself up 'for entertainment' is neither cool nor skilled. I like the stunts and liked Bir Khalsa the first time they performed in the talent show... the music and the gatka and the stunts, showing that they had impenetrable bodies and can take pain/punishment was very moving. However, they took it too far this time round... ripping off their clothes like wannabe bollywood actors and then requiring first aid and hospital treatment after their stunts reminds me more of Jackass than it does skilled martial artists. I dont like being negative or knocking fellow Singh brothers when they do something well... however, I think its important to be able to give some honest feedback as well.

The so called ancient martial arts of the khalsa (probably you are referring to the fake martial arts of shastar vidya which is really just phillipino martial arts passed off as something exotic, ancient and unheard of by the conman Niddar Singh). Ancient Khalsa martial arts, if there ever was such a thing, were most likely very basic weapon based skillsets probably not so dissimilar to the movements seen in modern day gatka... and for unarmed combat, wrestling/kushti would have been the main style, with some variation in technique. The most important skills were soldier like skills at arms eg, marksmanship, horsemanship, tent pegging (being good with a lance/spear), and some basic fencing with a talwar. I find it wierd that people think that Sikhs had time to sit there and practice martial arts all day long like some sort of geeks or even professional ring fighters today. In answer to the question of the original poster. MMA is good if you want to compete in MMA, not so good for the street. MMA consists of three skill sets Stand up striking, vertical grappling (wrestling) and ground fighting (brazilian jujitsu). As you can see two thirds of mma is grappling, eg ground fighting and wrestling. Frankly, in a street fight, wrestling and groundfighting is the worst tactic to employ because of the threat of weapons, multiple opponents and also tying up with someone who may be bigger and stronger than you (there are weight cateogories in mma, but not in street fighting!). Added to this is the fact that most Singhs have long beards and hair and dastaars which fall off pretty easily and are a death trap in close quarters fighting where they can be easily grabbed and manipulated. There is no doubt that training in mma will give you more confidence, fitness, toughness and some good techniques for street fighting, however, if your sole purpose is self defence on the street, than you are better off learning krav maga, combatives - look up lee morrison, urban combatives, FAST defence, or maybe some kind of striking martial art, so that you can knock people out quickly before they start grabbing your dastaar and kesh.

Sikh boys nowadays are so needy and so desperate for the company of women, that they will settle for any level of relationship/friendship, even if they have to act like a brother or even sister as you put it lol to get close enough... what a joke

would have been better if they were not all bloody and sliced up at the end to be honest. Makes them look like are trying to hard ... give the vibe of being more like jackass than shoalin monks. Rather than looking like trained stuntsmen/martial artists, they just looked like amateur guys having a go and injuring themselves in the process... its lucky that they didnt cripple themselves to be honest

Good martial arts skills. Props to them for getting on TV and representing. The miming and bollywood style posturing was a bit camp... as was the ripping off of clothes and flexing of muscles... but I suppose in India that is probably considered macho and hero like lol... For a UK audience it is a bit cringe worthy. Still... well done and good effort

I agree... the term last sikh warrior is an insulting and provocative term. A more appropriate label would be 'Hindu agent trying to pass kali/escrima as the long lost martial art of the Sikhs.' There have been countless 'real' Sikh warriors before him and there will be countless real Sikh warriors after him. He is a nobody, but somehow he seems to be getting media airtime.

krav maga is excellent. Definitely recommend it. Very pratical, very simple but effective. Ideal martial art for amritdhari Singhs who want to practice a martial art whilst keeping their kakkars, but want to learn effective self defence for the street. It is no nonsense and straight to the point.

i have also heard the theory about the tradition starting amongst the Kenyan Sikhs. Dont know if this is true. However, beard trimming was common in Punjab even in the forties and fifties. My grandfather who was a sardar but trimmed his beard. In the UK, beard trimming is common amongst all groups. Amongst khatri Sikhs (bhapeh) it is probably the least common

Well as it happens, the Sikh council has already had negotiations with the olympic organisers and things are not looking so bad. However, whenever there is a clash between human rights/freedom of religious practice etc versus health and safety legislation... then health and safety legislation will always win unfortunately. Because objectively, no other community is going to have sympathy to an object that they deem to be dangerous. Bottom line is that human rights/freedom of religious practice versus health and safety legislation... health and safety always win in the eyes of a neutral and objective audience. This is where we need to raise our game a little bit. Frankly, a lot Singhs are pretty thick when it comes to their kirpans and understanding what they can and cannot do with it. Many Sikh youth still think its ok to walk around with 12 inch kirpans on the outside in public non-sikh areas at work and at large events. Not only this, many Sikh youth have done and think that is perfectly ok to use the kakkar as an offensive weapon. In fact, I have heard first hand from Singhs who were negotiating with the olympic commitee that they themselves had come pre prepared to the meeting with newspaper cuttings and other evidence from the news where Sikhs had used the kakkar as a weapon in both UK and Canada, negating the argument that it is not a weapon, but a religious symbol (which is the only acceptable argument for the carriage of a kirpan in the eyes of a neutral and objective audience). It also does not help when you get individuals like that Singh prison guard who tried to take the prison service to court for not allowing him to wear the kirpan to work. Because, they ruled against him (health and safety always wins over human rights) in the employment tribunal. This has sent a dangerous precedent in modern legislation because the tribunal also ruled that less than 10% of Sikhs are amrithdari kirpan wearers, therefore it cannot be classed as discrimination!!? So you see, we really need to tone down the kirpan. If we are gonna wear it, we need to wear it responsibly, and discretely under the clothes. Where there is a perceived clash with health and safety ie a dangerous job or a big public event, then really we either just need to take it off, or if we want to keep it on then we should not take up the job or enter the event.. simple as that. It is a very dangerous game to try and fight this battle on a human rights level... we will lose this battle, and legislation will be taken against the kirpan, unlike in the present situation where there is no legislation against it as such. Also, if youth keep showing off with huge kirpans and continue to use them in street fights against muslims or moneh commitee members then, this anti-kirpan legislation will only come quicker rather than later...