MisterrSingh

I doubt OP is waiting on replies, haha, but another good book is 1984: India's Guilty Secret by Pav Singh.

I remember families passing around VHS tapes of Baba Isher Singh's diwaans to watch on Sunday evenings. I was barely out of nappies at the time, but I immediately knew when my parents had started watching those videos when I'd hear the unique sound of Baba Ji's harmonium and their particular style of raags they'd use in their kirtan. I was too young to understand what was being said, but stuff like that stays with a kid in a good way.

Well, I'm still going through the bulk of it at the moment, so acceptance is perhaps not the most accurate word to describe my state of mind at the moment. Just trying to soak up as much as possible. It'll be interesting to move on to Rattan Singh's work, and then compare and contrast. Yes, McAuliffe outright stating one of the major reasons for him undertaking his efforts is to inculcate loyalty on the part of Sikhs who were fighting alongside the British. That did make me uncomfortable, but if it's a truth, then so be it. Isn't McAuliffe's work a summarised collection of the major janam sakhis that are still used as the basis of katha and parchaar to this very day? In the footnotes there's regular references to the Suraj Prakash, etc. I find it very interesting and amusing how McAuliffe has an obvious and unashamed lack of anything approaching tolerance of the Brahman agenda. He lays into their rituals and the way they conspired against Sikhs at various points in history. What type of things was the German fellow writing about Sikhs? McAuliffe doesn't mention particulars, but just that it was designed to defame and slander the Gurus.

I'm working through the six volumes of McAuliffe's work (currently nearing the end of Volume 4), so this'll be next once I'm done with those. I briefly perused the introduction, and it's interesting to read the author (or translator, Dr. Kulwant Singh?) was categorical about Rattan Singh's literal superhero flights of fancy regarding Banda Singh Bahadhur. Makes me question the entire endeavour if there's parts of it that are... shall we say a little incredulous. Tempered displays of mystical power I can live with -- and believe with as much veracity as anyone -- but some of the feats attributed to BSB are next level stuff that even our Guru Sahibs were against, lol. I mean, you only have to read accounts of 6th Guru's life to realise how they didn't really go for any of those unnecessarily showy and egotistical displays of supernatural abilities. They chided two of their son's for such mistakes, which arguably indirectly lead to their respective deaths.

And some of the more serious allegations, too.

Based on what I'm hearing, the phrase, "Like rats fleeing a sinking ship," is what's currently happening with this group and its offshoots. I hear even the notorious NKJ's loyal lieutenants have cut ties with their leader and the group's various commitments, although a part of me suspects this might be a ploy to create distance between themselves and their leader only for the sake of appearances. I can't believe anyone would be so disloyal to turn their backs on a guy with whom they travelled the world for the best of a decade, and spent most days when in this country in each other's pockets. The impression they're trying to give is that they were oblivious to their man's activities which is absolute rubbish. Either they were blind or they turned a blind eye.

Yes, there's a rustic romanticism about them that seems like quite a departure from the neatly delineated and boxed-in norms of modern times.

Yes, that was amusing. Guru Sahib was practically serving it up on a plate for his Singhs, and they failed to dream big. "Okay, if you're sure. Last chance..." ? Generally, re: Bhai Chaupa Singh. What's the score? Most of his writings seem incredibly at odds with Gurbani and the general ethos of what we've come to know as the ideas stated by Sikh personalities.

Just managed to download both volumes. Cheers.

So he's attributing the commands he writes in his eponymous decree to Guru Gobind Singh. Why would Guru Sahib be at pains to preserve the "purity" and honour of the Brahman?

Is it possible to download them as PDF? Thanks, though.

Bhai Chaupa Singh wasn't a fan of caste mingling, was he?

Is the above Panth Prakash on sikhbookclub? Plus, why are even the best resources on that site marked with 1 or 2 stars?

It would be too much for our brains to optimally process and function. We barely deal with one lifetime's worth of events and trauma. Having access to a library full of experiences, emotions, and memories spanning centuries would result in most people ending up in the loony bin. Only immensely grounded and enlightened individuals can handle it. The C:/ Format function performed by God at the beginning of each our lifetimes is a good thing. Clean slate, fresh start.

Absolutely, I agree. Objectively, if a person is being deadly honest, there is a hierarchy of looks. Yes, we can argue about how society has arrived at this hierarchy, and which factors have informed rankings, etc. But then if it's that's obvious, why are these girls still pursued? So, it is the physical beauty of these women that overrides all other things in the mind of the guys we're referring to. Aren't Sikhs supposed to be at least inching towards the idea of seeing beyond the physical that the rest of the world is lost in?

Learn to converse with men. You've spent your entire life around women, Hindus, and weaklings. You don't know how to behave and interact with normal individuals. I won't stoop to your level. God bless you.

Bas kar, there's you lusting over benders your entire life, and you're talking to me about spilling blood and Sikh history. What did you think Singhs would've done with you if they'd discovered you eyeing them up in the jungles, lol? I think we've got a "lost in translation" thing going on here. I'm not writing essays to explain myself, because I'm certain the problem is arising from your end. Don't try to twist this scenario to denigrate my beliefs and my faith in the path I've chosen. You're painting with broad strokes whereas I'm trying to be a little more subtle and considered. Clearly, you're struggling with the concept. Give it a rest. I'm not interested.

Jesus Christ, why are you making this such a struggle? Okay, how are you still here if EVERY Sikh worth a damn martyred themselves back in the day? How did your ancestors manage to make their way to the modern era? Were they not prudent, lucky, or -- and here's something that may shock you -- desired self-preservation before any idealistic notions of dying for Guru and Faith entered their minds? Do you not wonder whether some Sikhs are "just" Sikhs in the same way Hindus are just Hindus, and Muslims are Muslims? What about the hundreds or thousands who slipped away on that day in 1699 when heads were demanded? Did they suddenly stop identifying as Sikhs? What if the Sikhs alive today are those who descended from such individuals? Perhaps that goes to explain the dire straits we find ourselves in, because when any Sikh worth a darn does emerge, he or she invariably ends up losing their life. What remains are the dregs. Think before you reply. You are seriously beginning to annoy me with your inability to see beyond the incendiary emotion you're leading with.

Read the accounts of Punjabi society from before and during the human lifetimes of our Guru Sahibs. You'll begin to notice some relatable and uncomfortable parallels. Again, a minority of unshakeable believers doesn't constituent everyone. The era when Sikhs were hunted and claimed as bounty is not representative of our entire history. Sikhs began with the first person "converted" to -- for argument's sake -- Sikhi by Pehle Paatshah. You're tackling this issue too emotionally.

I don't think the history we're taught by our theologians does us any favours. Aside from a tiny, select few who realised the Truth, was the rank and file "Sikh" society truly any different in morals and worldview to what we're seeing in contemporary times? Or were people content in the idea of coasting along by referring to themselves as Sikhs for purposes of identity whereas in reality, beneath the skin, they weren't so different to their Brahmin and the Mohammedan neighbours?