muurakh (forgive me...)

this general area has already been discussed somewhere. getting a tatoo is purposefully, knowingly denaturing your ang and doing beadbi of kesh. getting stitches you're already cut, for medical purposes or in unavoidable circumstances it is bound to happen. ie if someone has an operation the surgeons are required to shave the hair around the area, but you have to go pesh after the operation. dhan sant baba kartar singh ji were in hospital after their car crashed into a tree. surgery was an option the doctors offered to try and save their life, but sant ji opted not to have the operation done because this meant knowingly doing beadbi of kesh; and so they ascended to sach khand. i know the example of such a person is too great for us to follow, or even have this example offered when we are such papi's already, but nevertheless the guru's and sants have practically lived and shown us the way...

well burning, cutting through them, you know what i mean. they can't 'go around' your kesh can they, otherwise it won't look like what you want. so beadbi of kesh and 'denaturing' will happen. that's why we're not allowed to pearce our ears and tongues and stuff.

well basically when you get a tatoo you are doing a kurehit. you will be doing beadbi of your kesh. i think they shave the place where the tatoo's going. even if they don't when the needle goes into your skin the roots of kesh and kesh that are there will be burnt.

''a-men to that''

the start of the last paragraph made me giggle. and i wrote a paragraph but just deleted it, cause i'm not going to comment either. i'll probably stir up an arguement because of my lack of understanding

sorry, missed the bit that said pref. to read in english, all of the above are gurmukhi and punjabi.

stuff like sodhi chamatkaar and kalgidhar chamatkaar. khalsa jeevan - jeevan of sant baba gurbachan singh ji khalsa prabhodh chandhar natak amrit ras 1&2 steeks - gurbani and meanings. gur bilaas sao sakhi and the list goes on and on. those above, as well as others, tell you about gursikh jeevan and there are loads of sakhian.

err hello.....are you all reading the same script. a mona, cuts his hair at the very least, if not other kurehitan as well. sat in the hazoori of maharaj ji and read gurbani and he was portraying the message of amrit shako and rehit rakho and everything else gurbani says. where there is a gurdwara there is AT LEAST one amritdhari singh ie the giani. it's better to have just one amritdhari than have a non amritdhari with him/her. and yes bibian should be amritdhari as well when doing path from guru ji. in this case let's not beat around the bush, i don't care what excuse anyone comes out with, everyone knows that's just plain wrong. i'm sorry if i've offended anyone but sometimes you have to as long as it's in accordance with gurmat.

probablt been posted but..... ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਵਾਹਿ ਜੀਉ ॥ vāhigurū vāhigurū vāhigurū vāhi jī­o. vaheguroo, vaheguroo, vaheguroo, vahe jio ਕਵਲ ਨੈਨ ਮਧੁਰ ਬੈਨ ਕੋਟਿ ਸੈਨ ਸੰਗ ਸੋਭ ਕਹਤ ਮਾ ਜਸੋਦ ਜਿਸਹਿ ਦਹੀ ਭਾਤੁ ਖਾਹਿ ਜੀਉ ॥ Kaval nain maḏẖur bain kot sain sang sobẖ kahaṯ mā jasoḏ jisahi ḏahī bẖāṯ kẖāhi jī­o. You are lotus-eyed, with sweet speech, exalted and embellished with millions of companions. Mother Yashoda invited You as Krishna to eat the sweet rice. ਦੇਖਿ ਰੂਪੁ ਅਤਿ ਅਨੂਪੁ ਮੋਹ ਮਹਾ ਮਗ ਭਈ ਕਿੰਕਨੀ ਸਬਦ ਝਨਤਕਾਰ ਖੇਲੁ ਪਾਹਿ ਜੀਉ ॥ Ḏėkẖ rūp aṯ anūp moh mahā mag bẖa­ī kinknī sabaḏ jẖanaṯkār kẖėl pāhi jī­o. Gazing upon Your supremely beautiful form, and hearing the musical sounds of Your silver bells tinkling, she was intoxicated with delight. ਕਾਲ ਕਲਮ ਹੁਕਮੁ ਹਾਥਿ ਕਹਹੁ ਕਉਨੁ ਮੇਟਿ ਸਕੈ ਈਸੁ ਬੰਮ੍ਯ੍ਯੁ ਗ੍ਯ੍ਯਾਨੁ ਧ੍ਯ੍ਯਾਨੁ ਧਰਤ ਹੀਐ ਚਾਹਿ ਜੀਉ ॥ Kāl kalam hukam hāth kahhu ka­un mėt sakai īs bamm­yu ga­yān ḏẖėān ḏẖaraṯ hī­ai cẖāhi jī­o. Death's pen and command are in Your hands. Tell me, who can erase it? Shiva and Brahma yearn to enshrine Your spiritual wisdom in their hearts. ਸਤਿ ਸਾਚੁ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਨਿਵਾਸੁ ਆਦਿ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਸਦਾ ਤੁਹੀ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਵਾਹਿ ਜੀਉ ॥੧॥੬॥ Saṯ sācẖ sarī nivās āḏ purakẖ saḏā ṯuhī vāhigurū vāhigurū vāhigurū vāhi jī­o. ||1||6|| You are forever True, the Home of Excellence, the Primal Supreme Being. vaheguroo, vaheguroo, vaheguroo, vahe jio ||1||6||

i like the sehaj answer it's what i was thinking and would be my answer, until that last post. in which case i'd say it's sukh. you've stated dukh is sukh, so 'landing' on sukh and 'landing' on dukh, both give sukh. it says dukh is sukh but it doesn't say that sukh is dukh. ie you can state iron is metal but metal is not nessecarily iron. that's what i think anyway (probably wrong after all that lol)

what do you mean the short ones 'everyone' wears today most people i know wear the long ones, especially when you have to do path, and playing gatka

couldn't make it work when i posted so i attached the file vaheguru.... vaheguru....vaheguru :music: :TH: vaheguru.doc

vaheguroo

and if you've never heard them speak go to http://www.gurmatveechar.com/katha.php , folder second from bottom.

err....... can i just clear up that i was just joking because a gupt person wrote that passage mentioned in the 4th post. then peacemaker said it was him who wrote it, which i think it was, and i was just joking. because he initially wrote it as a guest and so it could've been anyone that's why i said no it was me. explaining the joke totally kills the humour, oh well never mind. good luck to big tera.

no it wasn't it was me :umm: :TH:

Vaheguru ji ka khalsa Vaheguru ji ki fateh i just upgraded McAfee but i didn't like the new version. I wanted to go back to the old one, but couldn't. so my brother tried a system restore. now it's sort of returned to it's old format but doesn't function as well although i haven't had a problem with any attacks/popups yet. basically i'm trying to uninstall it and download a firewall+antivirus etc. from the net but i can't uninstall it. it says uninstall components missing??? so i can't uninstall it (tried delete and remove from control panel), but i need to in order to download one. does anyone know how i can uninstall it or if there's one i can download without deleting McAfee. thanks for your help. Vaheguru ji ka khalsa Vaheguru ji ki fateh

gupt singhi ji, it is a fact in this world like i said before. any sport the women's standards are lower than the mens, physically women are not as strong. I maybe wrong about a lot of things but there is unlimited evidence in the world to support this. Like i said this is where the feminists come in and say 'are you saying women are weaker, we're not as good, are you belittling us?' No it's a mere fact, that's what they don't get sometimes , it has nothing to do with equality. i'm saying men and women are equal but different, this again can't be denied. sorry you agree with that bit what i was getting around to was the last bit i've highlighted please read the above piece in bold. also i'm trying to find some katha on this from giani thakur singh ji (patiala DDT), i will post link of that where giani ji briefly talks about this. also carpe diem "Why do people refer to God as He, Him, Etc???" Why is god refered to as 'he' in gurbani as well, why is the metaphor, of God being the 'husband', used. this was the question not what is god like, for that we have moolmantar and jaap sahib. http://www.gurmatveechar.com/katha.php scroll to the bottom of the page. click on 6 link from bottom - giani thakur singh ji recording no. 5. :TH: I agree that women are physically weaker than men but I think someone who has alot of naam kamai regardless of gender can be equally or much stronger than a human. Womens standards are not lower than mens in sikhi. Someone who thinks of themselves higher, in Gurbani it refers them as the lowest. You can believe what you like. Whatever you say doesn't suddenly change what I believe is true. i totally agree with you, women's standards are not lower in sikhi, i never said that either. i said women's standards are lower in sports. and in sikhi everyone is equal, that's what the highlighted bits were about. i said in the first place, 'Men and women are equal in the eyes of god, spiritually men and women are equal' and i said near the end: 'this is because we are soul brides - females and Vaheguru is our husband. and unless you are a brahmgiani, and one with Vaheguru - jeevan mukt, you can and really should only refer to Vaheguru as 'he' your husband.' and please listen to the katha if you haven't, it comes in about 4.44mins. ''You can believe what you like. Whatever you say doesn't suddenly change what I believe is true.'' i think that maybe we actually agree in what's true it's just that it takes me a while to understand and maybe the way i wrote what i thought was not very clear at all. so what do you believe is true, please can you explain to me, if you write it down. Then i can tell you whether i agree. What I said earlier on, that females can be just as strong if they have alot of naam kamai. They too can be 'protective, providing, strong, leading' if they merge with God. Agree??? And, 'Papi' don't get your hopes up. Theres not going to be any arguement. Sorry if I offended anyone :D i do agree i guess that comes back to this bit. '' this is because we are soul brides - females and Vaheguru is our husband. and unless you are a brahmgiani, and one with Vaheguru - jeevan mukt, you can and really should only refer to Vaheguru as 'he' your husband.'' i think that must've been in the back of my mind from that katha. giani ji know what they're talking about. but we agree :TH: and, for me anyway, the katha explains why Vaheguru is refered to as he. don't know how to sign off. i think ermm ......... sorry!, good that we agree and Vaheguru ji ka khalsa Vaheguru ji ki fateh.

gupt singhi ji, it is a fact in this world like i said before. any sport the women's standards are lower than the mens, physically women are not as strong. I maybe wrong about a lot of things but there is unlimited evidence in the world to support this. Like i said this is where the feminists come in and say 'are you saying women are weaker, we're not as good, are you belittling us?' No it's a mere fact, that's what they don't get sometimes , it has nothing to do with equality. i'm saying men and women are equal but different, this again can't be denied. sorry you agree with that bit what i was getting around to was the last bit i've highlighted please read the above piece in bold. also i'm trying to find some katha on this from giani thakur singh ji (patiala DDT), i will post link of that where giani ji briefly talks about this. also carpe diem "Why do people refer to God as He, Him, Etc???" Why is god refered to as 'he' in gurbani as well, why is the metaphor, of God being the 'husband', used. this was the question not what is god like, for that we have moolmantar and jaap sahib. http://www.gurmatveechar.com/katha.php scroll to the bottom of the page. click on 6 link from bottom - giani thakur singh ji recording no. 5. :TH: I agree that women are physically weaker than men but I think someone who has alot of naam kamai regardless of gender can be equally or much stronger than a human. Womens standards are not lower than mens in sikhi. Someone who thinks of themselves higher, in Gurbani it refers them as the lowest. You can believe what you like. Whatever you say doesn't suddenly change what I believe is true. i totally agree with you, women's standards are not lower in sikhi, i never said that either. i said women's standards are lower in sports. and in sikhi everyone is equal, that's what the highlighted bits were about. i said in the first place, 'Men and women are equal in the eyes of god, spiritually men and women are equal' and i said near the end: 'this is because we are soul brides - females and Vaheguru is our husband. and unless you are a brahmgiani, and one with Vaheguru - jeevan mukt, you can and really should only refer to Vaheguru as 'he' your husband.' and please listen to the katha if you haven't, it comes in about 4.44mins. ''You can believe what you like. Whatever you say doesn't suddenly change what I believe is true.'' i think that maybe we actually agree in what's true it's just that it takes me a while to understand and maybe the way i wrote what i thought was not very clear at all. so what do you believe is true, please can you explain to me, if you write it down. Then i can tell you whether i agree.

bundha, man, i thought i was havin a deja vu, how many more times are you going to post. i think you got your point across i think what these guys have suggested is probably the closest there is. or you could pretend to be, what is it a compulsive or something. i'm sure there's a word for it so there's no chance of you eating jooth and people will be more understanding as well *sigh* :umm:

gupt singhi ji, it is a fact in this world like i said before. any sport the women's standards are lower than the mens, physically women are not as strong. I maybe wrong about a lot of things but there is unlimited evidence in the world to support this. Like i said this is where the feminists come in and say 'are you saying women are weaker, we're not as good, are you belittling us?' No it's a mere fact, that's what they don't get sometimes , it has nothing to do with equality. i'm saying men and women are equal but different, this again can't be denied. sorry you agree with that bit what i was getting around to was the last bit i've highlighted please read the above piece in bold. also i'm trying to find some katha on this from giani thakur singh ji (patiala DDT), i will post link of that where giani ji briefly talks about this. also carpe diem "Why do people refer to God as He, Him, Etc???" Why is god refered to as 'he' in gurbani as well, why is the metaphor, of God being the 'husband', used. this was the question not what is god like, for that we have moolmantar and jaap sahib. http://www.gurmatveechar.com/katha.php scroll to the bottom of the page. click on 6 link from bottom - giani thakur singh ji recording no. 5. :TH:

gupt singhi ji, it is a fact in this world like i said before. any sport the women's standards are lower than the mens, physically women are not as strong. I maybe wrong about a lot of things but there is unlimited evidence in the world to support this. Like i said this is where the feminists come in and say 'are you saying women are weaker, we're not as good, are you belittling us?' No it's a mere fact, that's what they don't get sometimes , it has nothing to do with equality. i'm saying men and women are equal but different, this again can't be denied. sorry you agree with that bit what i was getting around to was the last bit i've highlighted please read the above piece in bold. also i'm trying to find some katha on this from giani thakur singh ji (patiala DDT), i will post link of that where giani ji briefly talks about this. also carpe diem "Why do people refer to God as He, Him, Etc???" Why is god refered to as 'he' in gurbani as well, why is the metaphor, of God being the 'husband', used. this was the question not what is god like, for that we have moolmantar and jaap sahib.

Vaheguru ji ka khalsa Vaheguru ji ki fateh Most people have said in their replies that god has no gender, no form etc. and this can be found in gurbani (as above) that god is genderless, and also from meanings of moolmantar and jaap sahib. but, as the original question states: "Why do people refer to God as He, Him, Etc???" Why is god refered to as 'he' in gurbani as well, why is the metaphor, of God being the 'husband', used. God is refered to in the male sense, vaise tan God has no gender etc that is correct. but i believe it is to do with the difference in certain planes between the male and female. Although male and female are equal they have a 'place' a role as well, which deffers. we are all one jot, god is everywhere in everyone, everywhere is god. When God is refered to as 'he' i think it is a metaphor in the sense that the male is, factually-generally-naturally, stronger-the provider, and in terms of worldly affairs in working and providing in his area he is better and more effecient. this is where the feminists come in and say 'are you saying women are weaker, we're not as good, are you belittling us?' No it's a mere fact, that's what they don't get sometimes :umm: , it has nothing to do with equality. Men and women are equal in the eyes of god, spiritually men and women are equal, but the facts in this world can not be denied. men and women have functions, they are different but equally important, where the woman has to give birth, while she is in that state, at least, the male provides. say what you like but for that small period of time the male is the sole provider and the woman must give birth. i say for that period of time because people may argue that a woman can work while carrying a child etc etc. but there is a time when the roles become clear if you like. had a loooong rahao there cause of mum, lost the flow . so the roles are different and it's the males role to be protective, providing, strong, leading. so in this way god is described in the male sense. If we said Vaheguru kardi hai, some'd say there's nothing wrong with that. But it just feels wrong/weird, because from how we're brought up, taught and how we percieve Vaheguru. But actually it is wrong... this is because we are soul brides - females and Vaheguru is our husband. and unless you are a brahmgiani, and one with Vaheguru - jeevan mukt, you can and really should only refer to Vaheguru as 'he' your husband. Forgive me if i'm wrong or offended anyone. anything i have written is what i've learned from sangat and Vaheguru does everything himself and if any of it's wrong it's through my misunderstanding. Vaheguru ji ka khalsa Vaheguru ji ki fateh

the answers are in gurbani... i heard some katha on vaheguru-husband and us the soul brides i'll try and find it later. and also in gurbani vaheguru is refered to in male terms. as in vaheguru 'karda' not 'kardi' or 'dhedha' deh ladhe thak pahe, jin(e) upaee mednee soee karda sar etc. so it's not to do with translation or anything. even stuff like sabh jag sache ki hai kothree sache ka vich vaas, it's 'sache' ka not 'sachi' ka

and gurmatveechar.com - mainly for katha