Offensive?

[ms514]

Sat Sri Akal:

Ask him if peace and love protect a country's borders. Peace and love is what Sikhism is about...but Sikhism does not turn a blind eye to humanity's less friendly element.

[sukhnidhaan]

Fantastic replies.

From my personal experience - when people stop me for wearing Kirpan or ask about it:

"This part of the 5K's Sikh Uniform, which exemplifies the Sikh character of being a Saint Warrior.

The Kirpan is not an offensive weapon, dagger or knife.  The word Kirpan = Kirpaa and aan.. literally meaning HANDY OF MERCY. It represents:

1) Truth 2) justice 3) freedom 4) righteousness and 5) protection.

Look at lady justice (who represent Law, order, justicw and freedom).

She holds a weighing scale = good and bad will be judged and weighed

Blind fold = justice is blind and indiscriminate

Sword in hand = represents Justice, freedom and soveriegnty.

A Kirpan is very special, worn by Sikhs who take an oath to serve humanity and protect justice. The British Law acknowledges this and by law we are allowed to wear kirpaan"

89013[/snapback]

The sword on the RHS looks like a khanda. Does it not?

On our emblem khanda; 2 kiraapaNa represent miri and piri, i.e spiritual and temporal strength.

The double-edged sword can also signify various principles- but in essence it is used to prepare Amrit- when 'khanda bata kharkadda hundaa. :awesome

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa! Wahegurrrrrrrrrrrrrooooooooooooo Jee Kee FATHEHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!

[sukhnidhaan]

: Double posted somehow

[ms514]

Sat Sri Akal:

Just to add...many religions would not have survived without the "sword" (or arms). The Christians were considered an underground Jewish cult until Constantine spread the religion with the sword. Muhammed Sahib fought for his beliefs with the sword. Judaism has a homeland because of arms. Hinduism exists because of the Sikh sword. Any person who ignores these salient facts of history is indeed blind.

[buddasingh]

Many possible approaches depending on mood but try this for short and sweet... be very calm throughout....

"Actually you could probably teach me something..."

"Define religion?/what is your definition of religion?"

(just listen, ask brief questions, keep the other person talking... if they are going to tell you what is acceptable as religion then you can presume that they know what religion is)

Some possible questions to keep them going...

---what part does discipline play in religion

---what part do symbols play in religion

---does religion teach one not to judge

---would religion teach not to judge a book by the cover

---do religous places deserve armed police protection if necessary?

---should armed professionals be permitted in religous places while on duty?

(They will not be able to define religion in any conclusive manner -- you will always be able to ask more questions)

If they ask what this has to do with their point....

"You are making definitive judgments about what is and is not acceptable for religion so i presume that in order to do that you have figured out what religion is"

Hopefully they will think just a bit more...

[Guest Sony]

I believe he was an athiast. hard to teach someone like that about religion.

but these answers are really good for when people bring up the kirpan in general. people like him im just going to avoid..

I guess living in such a multicultural area my whole life, I have never had to deal with this before, and I just wasnt used to hearing someone being so rude, usually people are genuinely interested, but this guy, like i said, just wanted to put me down.... if i see him again i'll take care of him!! joking.......

thanks for ur replies

pul chuk maaf

Fateh

[sukhnidhaan]

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa! Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!!

Fine in theory, budda singh ji; but some rigid people hardly allow questions to be asked. It's easier just to tell. But yeah, we're all learning- so that ATTITUDE of 'maybe you can teach me something MORE/ NEW with your insight/ understanding of ....' is more Sikhi orientated IMHO.

Maybe the calmness factor is the key. Then even if the rest falls on deaf ears, at least you don't burn/ wind yourself out even more over it!

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa! Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!!

[Guest Sony]

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa! Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!!

Maybe the calmness factor is the key. Then even if the rest falls on deaf ears, at least you don't burn/ wind yourself out even more over it!

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa! Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!!

89259[/snapback]

very true, actually by the end, he was the one that was more riled up and i believe for people who were around they thought he was the crazy one (i hope neway <_< )

[Bhajneet]

For the people who are ignorant just remember the last line of the 19th paurdtee of Aasaa dee Vaar.

If he's someone who's honestly curious then you cant really give a short and simple way of telling them.

Please do not ignore people like the person you encountered Sony, listen to them..... then walk away. There's a difference between that and ignoring.

Another thing (if you do find yourself in that position again, and don't want to remember the stuff i typed above), he did say "like police take out their gun and shoot people?" You should have defenitely said: Yes, just like that, the police (ourselves) take out their guns (kirpaans) to shoot people [who are oppressing/etc. the weak/defense-less].

Well, that's what I woulda done anyways.

Sony, there's no need to feel bad, there are some ignorant people out there, no reason to trouble your mind over them.

[sukhnidhaan]

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa! Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!!

Please do not ignore people like the person you encountered Sony, listen to them..... then walk away. There's a difference between that and ignoring.

Yeah, coz sometimes their view of things is like that of most worldly cynics, of which it may be of some faidaa to be aware. Therefore, it gives one the strength of understanding from where someone else is standing. They may even have some valid points from which we can learn- as a wise person can see the good in 'bad' i.e. reflect a guN from another's avguN. Not easy- and it requires quick judgments to be made simultaneously. Is it even right to 'judge' their stance or just be oblivious to it? This is something that I was wondering when encountering 'fakes' who MAY mean well. But at the end of the day WE can DO well, by LISTENING to the (underlying) msg-adapting what we hear to ourselves attentively.

Just my 2 cents.

BTW It's not always possible to walk away in certain circumstances when barriers are placed in your way on purpose.

Is dodging- where you feel you are only running the lisk of losing something of yourself, outweighing how much you could possibly gain, AND the other part just too fixed in their ways for much MUTUALITY to come through- better than confronting?

Much SELF-control/ restraint is required to prevent such circumstances from turning into a jhuggarRa, which have harmful effects.

This Shabad is by Guru Nanak Dev Ji in Raag Gauree on Pannaa 224

gourree mehalaa 1 ||

Gauree, First Mehl:

aiso dhaas milai sukh hoee ||

Meeting such a slave, peace is obtained.

dhukh visarai paavai sach soee ||1||

Pain is forgotten, when the True Lord is found. ||1||

dharasan dhaekh bhee math pooree ||

Beholding the blessed vision of his darshan, my understanding has become perfect.

at(h)asat(h) majan charaneh dhhooree ||1|| rehaao ||

The cleansing baths at the sixty-eight sacred shrines of pilgrimage are in the dust of his feet. ||1||Pause||

naethr sa(n)thokhae eaek liv thaaraa ||

My eyes are contented with the constant love of the One Lord.

jihavaa soochee har ras saaraa ||2||

My tongue is purified by the most sublime essence of the Lord. ||2||

sach karanee abh a(n)thar saevaa ||

True are my actions, and deep within my being, I serve Him.

man thripathaasiaa alakh abhaevaa ||3||

My mind is satisfied by the Inscrutable, Mysterious Lord. ||3||

jeh jeh dhaekho theh theh saachaa ||

Wherever I look, there I find the True Lord.

bin boojhae jhagarath jag kaachaa ||4||

Without understanding, the world argues in falsehood. ||4||

gur samajhaavai sojhee hoee ||

When the Guru instructs, understanding is obtained.

guramukh viralaa boojhai koee ||5||

How rare is that Gurmukh who understands. ||5||

kar kirapaa raakhahu rakhavaalae ||

Show Your Mercy, and save me, O Savior Lord!

bin boojhae pasoo bheae baethaalae ||6||(6)

Without understanding, people become beasts and demons. ||6||

gur kehiaa avar nehee dhoojaa ||

The Guru has said that there is no other at all.

kis kahu dhaekh karo an poojaa ||7||

So tell me, who should I see, and who should I worship? ||7||

sa(n)th haeth prabh thribhavan dhhaarae ||

For the sake of the Saints, God has established the three worlds.

aatham cheenai s thath beechaarae ||8||

One who understands his own soul, contemplates the essence of reality. ||8||

saach ridhai sach praem nivaas ||

One whose heart is filled with Truth and true love

pranavath naanak ham thaa kae dhaas ||9||8||

- prays Nanak, I am his servant. ||9||8||

Bhulla(n) chukkaa(n) dee khimma(n) bakhsani jeeO.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa! Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!!