Where were Nihungs in 1984?

[GurooDaChela]

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw!

vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!

interesting

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw!

vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!

[anon]

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw!

vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!

anyway nihangs should pick up their guns and go and find KP GILL and Sajjan Kumar etc

and give them whats due, i dont care if u are stoned or not, go and use ur gun

instead of saying nihangs should go find kp gill and sajjan kumar, why dont YOU pick up a gun, go find them and give them whats due.

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw!

vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!

[GurooDaChela]

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw!

vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!

Mkhalsa, for once you are correct. Other than the fact that Nihangs today dont take it for abuse. The ones that take it, they take it so that their bodies can handle the extreme workouts of training all day long. The amount they take is not abused, and it does not make you high.

________________________________________________________________________________

_____________

Quotes from Adi Guru Durbar quotes quoted by vegetarians to support their case on meat and bhang:

‘They burn away the bonds of the world, and eat a simple diet of grain and water.’

(‘Adi Guru Durbar’, Pa.467)

‘You murder living beings and worship lifeless things; at your very last moment, you shall suffer in terrible pain.’

(‘Adi Guru Durbar’, Pa.322)

‘Kabir, great is the eating of Khichri [a type of vegetable soup] in which is ambrosial tasting salt. For hunters, meal of meat who would have his throat cut?’

(‘Adi Guru Durbar’, Pa.1374)

‘Cannabis, fish and alcohol he who drinks, their merit of going to pilgrimages, fasting and contemplation of holy name all goes to waste.’

(‘Adi Guru Durbar’, Pa.1377)

‘If there is one Khuda [Almighty] then why you -- [by Halal] a chicken? Oh Mullah, you speak of God’s justice to others. Your own minds doubt does not go.’

(‘Adi Guru Durbar’, Pa.1350)

‘Oh Kabir, he who kills creatures with force and they who call it Halal. When in the court of the compassionate, account is asked for [doing Halal], then who will present himself [for this account]?’

(

‘Adi Guru Durbar, Salok Kabir, Pa.1375)

Note: Whereas Chatka eaters make a distinction between ‘Halal’/’Kuttah’ (slaughtered the Muslim way) and ‘Chatka’ (killed with a single blow), this is not the case with vegetarian Sikhs fanatics. These vegetarian groups see both kinds of meat as ONE, and go to many lengths attempting to convince people of their warped views.

Chatka eaters such as the Akali Nihangs, point out that the last quote mentioned above, by Bhagat Kabir, cannot be referenced in context of Khalsa eating meat for ‘Halal’ is taboo to Akali Nihang Singh Khalsa.

Rattan Singh Bhangu speaks of the Khalsa code of conduct given to the Khalsa - a code still quoted by Akali Nihangs today. On its conception by Akali Nihang Guru Gobind Singh, the code clearly makes distinction between ‘Chatka’ and ‘Halal’:

‘Be initiated into the Khalsa and go hunting. Preserve the martial traditions in anyway you can. Chatka goats and eat them. Do not eat carrion or Halal meat [of animal slaughtered Muslim way]. Nurture your long hair. Do not cut your hair with razor. Forsake your ancestral ways. Focus on the Gurus feet. They who get on the wrong path punish them. Whatever method [of initiation] the Guru has ordained do it. From five Bhujangi [Nihangs] be initiated.’

(‘Panth Prakash’, 1832, Expurgated by Vir Singh, Pa.44)

In 'Tankhanama', a personal attendant of Akali Nihang Guru Gobind Singh, Bhai Nand Lal, in an ancient Khalsa code of conduct states that meat taken from ‘Turks’ (oppressive Moslem invaders), i.e. Halal, is taboo for Khalsa:

‘Taking meat of Turks who eats…..

…They go to hell.’

(‘Rehitnameh’, by Piara Singh Padam, Pa.58)

In his Rehitnama, Bhai Daya Singh, one of the original ‘Panj Pyareh’ (five beloved Khalsa), a number of times also speaks of the same command of Akali Nihang Guru Gobind Singh as Bhai Nand Lal:

‘He who eats the meat of Turks, or, has sex with prostitutes, both go to hell.’

(‘Rehitnameh’, by Piara Singh Padam, Pa.73)

<

br>‘He who takes meat of Turks and eats is a great transgressor.’

(‘Rehitnameh’, by Piara Singh Padam, Pa.74)

Hence, as can be seen, within Khalsa historical tradition there is a clear distinction between ‘Chatka’ meat and ‘Halal’/’Kuttah’ meat.

At present, Chatka-eating Nihangs DO acknowledge that Bhagat Kabir’s words contained in Adi Guru Durbar are against meat eating, and this does not contradict their martial practices.

Kabir followed a non-martial way of life unlike the Akali Nihang Singh Khalsa and their warrior Gurus.

The idea that 'Bhagats' (saints) like Kabir in Adi Guru Durbar vouched for vegetarianism was an accepted notion early last century even by the Tat Khalsa Singh Sabhias - the enemy of the Sanatan Sikhs. One prominent Tat Khalsa Singh Sabhia British sympathizer accused by many as main influence of western puritanical Victorian-Christian thinking on Tat Khalsa Singh Sabhias, Max Arthur Macauliffe, expressing the Tat Khalsa point of view noted:

‘Kabir held the doctrine of ahinsa [also known as ‘Ahimsa’] or the none-destruction of life, which extended even to that of flowers. The Sikh Gurus, on the contrary, allowed, and even encouraged, the use of animal flesh as food.’

(‘The Sikh Religion’, by M.A. Macauliffe, 1909, Vol.VI, Pa.141)

Though it has to be appreciated that not all Bhagats were strict vegetarians. Bhagat Sadhna, whose works are found in Adi Guru Durbar, was a butcher by trade. After him, he left a whole sect of religious devotees in Sindh who were mainly butchers by trade. Macauliffe wrote:

‘Sadhna is believed to have been born in Sehwan in Sindh and to have been a butcher by trade.’

(‘The Sikh Religion’, by M.A. Macauliffe, 1909, Vol.VI, Pa.141)

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw!

vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!

[10th regiment]

anon, i dont arm myself to the teeth and claim to be equal to 125,000 like some nihangs do

i dont go round pretending to be defenders of the weak and innocent

that is what some of these nihangs do esp in india

not all but some

sit on their fat <admin-profanity filter activated> eating weed getting munchies and eating roti

are all there weapons for show??????????

[ms514]

Sat Sri Akal:

Sangat Ji, please refrain from taking this topic personally and cursing. A humble benti.

GurooDaChela Sahib, the question on the table which I believe still goes unanswered is the why. Guru Gobind Singh Ji created the Khalsa with Khandae-Batta-Dah-Amrit. This Amrit was able to turn the lowest of the low into Kings among men, the perfect human beings. What purpose would regular, ceremonial consumption of sukha serve (nobody is going to dispute the medicinal aspect. However, it becomes apparent from observing the Nihangs that the sukhs is not being taken or medicinal purposes, but rather has a religious claim attached to it).

[anon]

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw!

vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!

10th regiment jee, lets try not to tell others to do something we're not willing to do ourselves.

on a side note, guru sahib said his singhs are equal to 125,000, nihangs didnt just make this up out of no where.

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw!

vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!

[Jagroop Singh]

Vahiguru ji ka khalsa, Vahiguru ji ki fateh!

Veer/Bhain 'GurooDaChela' ji,

It is Guru Sahib Di Kirpa that you have rejoined this thread.

Please, if you are able to, could you specifically address the points/questions previously raised and then perhaps we could address the 'extra' issues raised by your latest response. i think that would be the most logical and useful way to proceed.

(Veer/Bhain 'MS514' ji has already reminded us of Point 3).

Those points were:

>>>>>>>>>>>

POINT 1 - Without getting into the authenticity of Dasam Granth, EVERYONE accepts that it was never personally ordained as Guru by Siree Guru Gobind Singh Sahib Jee. It was apparently the 'Akali Nihangs' (the 'followers') who placed it upon such a pedestal, along with 'Sarbloh Granth', directly alongside Siree Guru Granth Sahib Jee. This is the 'Akali Nihangs' own admission. Ask yourself since when should the cart decide where the horse should lead it! i.e. the followers decide and overide what their leader ordains?

POINT 2 - Keeping Point 1 in mind, if 'Hikayat' mentions the consumption of drugs, then this is not to be taken as fact. This is simply because Siree Guru Sahib Jee says, via Bhagat Kabir Sahib Jee, that we are to stay away from cannabis. The question is do the 'Akali Nihangs' not view the Word of Bhagats as equal to the rest of GurBani? In other words, do they have a 'two-tier respect' approach concerning Siree Guru Granth Sahib Jee? This question was in part raised earlier by a Veer but remains, somewhat conspicuously, un

answered.

POINT 3 - It must be remembered that cannabis' active ingredient is THC which operates upon a psycho-active level i.e. alters the way we perceive, feel and react to sensory stimulation. To argue that Siree Guru Sahib Jee ordained that such a state of mind was neccesary for the Khalsa, above and beyond the Beant Power of Naam, is in my opinion sheer ignorance or stupidity and is borne out of a complete lack of faith in GurSikhi. Are we saying that the Khalsa Akaal Purakh Ki Fauj, created complete by Siree Guru Gobind Singh Sahib Jee through Vahiguru's Beant Shakti, were lacking mental strength, physical prowess etc. and needed a 'drug-induced' boost?

ADDITIONAL QUESTION - Out of interest, in the 'Hikayat' the following lines appear:

`Oh, Saki, give me the cup full of green liquid,

`So that I may keep the secret enshroud.(178)

`Oh Saki! Give me the greenish wine of Europe,

`Which I may need on the day of war.(179)(10)

Why is the Nasha referred to as 'the greenish wine of Europe'?

>>>>>>>>>>>

Thank you in advance Veer/Bhain Ji.

Vahiguru ji ka khalsa, Vahiguru ji ki fateh!

[10th regiment]

guru ji did say that i know

so if they are true singhs, true warriors, truly akal purkh ki fauj, then go do some good, and these pappis on their way

prove that u are equal to 125000 and use ur arms

sant ji said, using arms for no reasons is wrong, but seeing injustice and not using them is even worse

i am sorry but most nihangs get high and eat roti all day and also eat the odd goat here and there

again are all those weapons for show?

[V]

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw!

vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!

Mkhalsa, for once you are correct. Other than the fact that Nihangs today dont take it for abuse. The ones that take it, they take it so that their bodies can handle the extreme workouts of training all day long. The amount they take is not abused, and it does not make you high.

________________________________________________________________________________

_____________

Quotes from Adi Guru Durbar quotes quoted by vegetarians to support their case on meat and bhang:

‘They burn away the bonds of the world, and eat a simple diet of grain and water.’

(‘Adi Guru Durbar’, Pa.467)

‘You murder living beings and worship lifeless things; at your very last moment, you shall suffer in terrible pain.’

(‘Adi Guru Durbar’, Pa.322)

‘Kabir, great is the eating of Khichri [a type of vegetable soup] in which is ambrosial tasting salt. For hunters, meal of meat who would have his throat cut?’

(‘Adi Guru Durbar’, Pa.1374)

‘Cannabis, fish and alcohol he who drinks, their merit of going to pilgrimages, fasting and contemplation of holy name all goes to waste.’

(‘Adi Guru Durbar’, Pa.1377)

‘If there is one Khuda [Almighty] then why you -- [by Halal] a chicken? Oh Mullah, you speak of God’s justice to others. Your own minds doubt doe

s not go.’

(‘Adi Guru Durbar’, Pa.1350)

‘Oh Kabir, he who kills creatures with force and they who call it Halal. When in the court of the compassionate, account is asked for [doing Halal], then who will present himself [for this account]?’

(‘Adi Guru Durbar, Salok Kabir, Pa.1375)

Note: Whereas Chatka eaters make a distinction between ‘Halal’/’Kuttah’ (slaughtered the Muslim way) and ‘Chatka’ (killed with a single blow), this is not the case with vegetarian Sikhs fanatics. These vegetarian groups see both kinds of meat as ONE, and go to many lengths attempting to convince people of their warped views.

Chatka eaters such as the Akali Nihangs, point out that the last quote mentioned above, by Bhagat Kabir, cannot be referenced in context of Khalsa eating meat for ‘Halal’ is taboo to Akali Nihang Singh Khalsa.

Rattan Singh Bhangu speaks of the Khalsa code of conduct given to the Khalsa - a code still quoted by Akali Nihangs today. On its conception by Akali Nihang Guru Gobind Singh, the code clearly makes distinction between ‘Chatka’ and ‘Halal’:

‘Be initiated into the Khalsa and go hunting. Preserve the martial traditions in anyway you can. Chatka goats and eat them. Do not eat carrion or Halal meat [of animal slaughtered Muslim way]. Nurture your long hair. Do not cut your hair with razor. Forsake your ancestral ways. Focus on the Gurus feet. They who get on the wrong path punish them. Whatever method [of initiation] the Guru has ordained do it. From five Bhujangi [Nihangs] be initiated.’

(‘Panth Prakash’, 1832, Expurgated by Vir Singh, Pa.44)

In 'Tankhanama', a personal attendant of Akali Nihang Guru Gobind Singh, Bhai Nand Lal, in an ancient Khalsa code of conduct states that meat taken from ‘Turks’ (oppressive Moslem invaders), i.e. Halal, is taboo for Khalsa:

‘Taking meat of Turks who eats…..

…They go to hell.’

(‘Rehitnameh’, by Piara Singh Padam, Pa.58)

In his Rehitnama, Bhai Daya Singh, one of the original ‘Panj Pyareh’ (five bel

oved Khalsa), a number of times also speaks of the same command of Akali Nihang Guru Gobind Singh as Bhai Nand Lal:

‘He who eats the meat of Turks, or, has sex with prostitutes, both go to hell.’

(‘Rehitnameh’, by Piara Singh Padam, Pa.73)

‘He who takes meat of Turks and eats is a great transgressor.’

(‘Rehitnameh’, by Piara Singh Padam, Pa.74)

Hence, as can be seen, within Khalsa historical tradition there is a clear distinction between ‘Chatka’ meat and ‘Halal’/’Kuttah’ meat.

At present, Chatka-eating Nihangs DO acknowledge that Bhagat Kabir’s words contained in Adi Guru Durbar are against meat eating, and this does not contradict their martial practices.

Kabir followed a non-martial way of life unlike the Akali Nihang Singh Khalsa and their warrior Gurus.

The idea that 'Bhagats' (saints) like Kabir in Adi Guru Durbar vouched for vegetarianism was an accepted notion early last century even by the Tat Khalsa Singh Sabhias - the enemy of the Sanatan Sikhs. One prominent Tat Khalsa Singh Sabhia British sympathizer accused by many as main influence of western puritanical Victorian-Christian thinking on Tat Khalsa Singh Sabhias, Max Arthur Macauliffe, expressing the Tat Khalsa point of view noted:

‘Kabir held the doctrine of ahinsa [also known as ‘Ahimsa’] or the none-destruction of life, which extended even to that of flowers. The Sikh Gurus, on the contrary, allowed, and even encouraged, the use of animal flesh as food.’

(‘The Sikh Religion’, by M.A. Macauliffe, 1909, Vol.VI, Pa.141)

Though it has to be appreciated that not all Bhagats were strict vegetarians. Bhagat Sadhna, whose works are found in Adi Guru Durbar, was a butcher by trade. After him, he left a whole sect of religious devotees in Sindh who were mainly butchers by trade. Macauliffe wrote:

‘Sadhna is believed to have been born in Sehwan in Sindh and to have been a butcher by trade.’

(‘The Sikh Religion’, by M.A. Macauliffe, 1909, Vol.VI, Pa.141)

>

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw!

vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!

firstly

ur conclusion tha chatka and halal has been made distinctive, tha logic is flawed, as they only say the meat from TURKS, this does NOT mean that you can eat froom hindus i.e chatka

Kabir followed a non-martial way of life unlike the Akali Nihang Singh Khalsa and their warrior Gurus.

So you mean BHAGAT Ji wrote

'ANY ONE who eats'

but actually meant 'ANYONE FOLLOWING THE non-martial way of life, but...will go to hell'

Your logic is flawed, as Bhagat ji clearly said ANYONE, and did not make any distinction between anyoen when he said

'THOSE MORTALS'

in future please provide full quote

bhull chukk maaf

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

[anon]

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw!

vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!

so if they are true singhs, true warriors, truly akal purkh ki fauj, then go do some good, and these pappis on their way

prove that u are equal to 125000 and use ur arms

i guess you could say that about any one of us sitting on our asses behind our computers talkin the big talk. all of us carry shasters and some of us even rock big dumallay. but before we attack someone else for not doing something, think....what have we done....or are the decked out dumallay all for show.

plus, who are we to try to make guru sahib dey singh look bad...

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw!

vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!