Offensive Display At Westminister Cathedral

[All-Info]

Before anyone starts to get all heated up and the name-calling starts, it may be an idea to find out who put that up, and find out if that person knows anything about Sikhi/Ik Onkar.  If they do not it could be a simple mistake of simply not knowing which way the Ik Onkar should be (we are humans after all and honest mistakes can be made). 

There are no excuses for offensive actions but before pointing fingers and making accusations it may be an idea to get the full story behind what’s happened, instead of charging full steam ahead and consequently making a fool of not only yourself but Sikh’s as a whole as your actions represent us all in cases such as this.

Peace.

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My point exactly. I will ring them up 2moro (just seen the number now and i guesin they closed now!!) and will also ask. When you foned was there no aswer hence u left a message? i will call from work so i can keep callin all day till i get an answer! lol, not like i got nething else to do! lol (literally, i have nothing else to do! <_< )

Education is the key and finding out the purpose, not get defensive because it may be jst an honest mistake. Who took the photo? Because to me, it would have made sense that day only to tell them to either take it down or rotate!!!??! (not saying what you did was wrong tho, alot of time the shock stops us!)

Alot of the time if we jump to actions we are not gona have a practical outcome, makes sense for once to use our brains and use this to an advantage!! Shows simply that schools are not doing their jobs propery since beadmi like this is still happening tho RE is compulsary in first school alone!!!! and primary since alot of the time i see primary and secondary schools in Gurdwara Sahib having talks done for them!!!!!!

[GurSa Singh]

Got feedback from the Christian shop manager. The "cloth" has been bought in bulk by the catherdral from a wholesaler. They claim they don't know what is on the "cloth".

They have now been informed that it is Gurbani and that it is displayed upside down. The manager has stated that they were unaware that the "cloth" had any religious significance to any faith.

They will get back to me with further details. I suggested that it would be best that they removed the rumalla from their shop displays, not sure if the rest of the sangat agree.

Now that they know that the "ik oankar" symbol is sacred to Sikhs I don't think they really want to use it in their displays. Personally I think they had no intentions of displaying anything Sikh (or any other non christian group) and purchased some cloth which they probably though looked nice and ethnic for the display.

It's the wholesaler who needs to be aware of what they are selling and the implications. Tommorrow the wrong person with the wrong intentions can by this "cloth" and use it to make fashioable garments, who knows.

[sukhnidhaan]

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa! Wahegur Ji Ki Fateh!!

I'm sorry but dis das is rather apalled that the Christion shop bought this cloth not 'knowing' what was written on it- the very centre of Sikhism- a universal religion. A plain or colourful cloth could have been used too, no? Why specifically choose this one...although I must admit- it would look very nice if draped properly and the RIGHT way round! :wub:

Such a basic 'symbol' as the Ik Oankaar that many people recognise- yet not a prominent Christian shop who make a very enigmatic desplay in such a prominently chosen place/ location. Fine, mistakes are made- but surely a bit of prior research would not do any harm?!! :wub: @

I would like to apologise if my previous post on this thread sounded 'harsh' or offended the sentiments of some. However, speaking for myself, I can say with utmost conviction that I have full respect for ALL religions and like-wise God-fearing citzens of the Kingdom of God. IMHO we share more than sets us apart. <_<

How much disrespect can one tolerate though? If I'm not mistaken, it is only Mr Tony Blai and his New Labour part's slogan: 'Education, Education, Education'...Now, what's come out of it hey? students under extra stress of huge inevitable debts for possibly having a future that will actually put more into the economy. Hardly fair and socially justified, don't you reckon? And to top it all off- a new debate into top-up fees. Old-school boys huh?

These points may not seem relevant to some- but let's not forget where this 'display' was located- of which we have pictoral evidence~ nr Westminster- the very centre of the fine British legal system. Is it near Nelson's column by any chance too? Or the old met/ Or New Scotland Yard?

As a British citizen, I would like to express that I honestly think the U.K is a great country to live in. There are equal opportunities almost everywhere in our multicultural and multiethinic society. The U.S is also knoen as the land of the free (or something on those lines)- with the Statue of Livberty being a fine figurehead (similar to the Law emblem thingie posted on another thread here). It is also said that President Bush is a devout Christian- not following the lead of secularism- as is the policiy of French Chirac (which has led to justified uproar in the face of on basic Human Rights made absolutely clear as crystal in the UN convention)

Note the common feature of both these abbs: the U standing for UNITED.

w(pronounced V in sum dialects- as in V for victory)eeeeeee stand...

DIVIDED WE FALL.

My perspective, as a young adult, is that an International Baccalaureate system, would be a step in the right direction in promoting education in it's entirety. I heard it was being considered in place of the current constantly-changing A-level institution NEwayz. Why does GB choose to stay out of certain EU 'policies'. I understand the strength of £, but what about "Learning through Play"- which brings up happier, healthier kids- as in Sweden. This theory and practice over and above the ever-increasing testing times targetted to pass exams. Of course, both go hand-in-hand, but why put teachers under even more stress and strain with all the formalities of documentation. It only pleases league tables! (I say this from experience BTW- even having been a student selected for OFsted inspection and @ uni questioned by the Royal Society of my profession/vocation in my first year).

I remember seeing a few documentaries on Health and Education (not to mention bits of the channel 4 series- 'Teachers'!!!) highlighting how difficult it is to find the right balance in these vital fields. There is just so much fiddling going on behind star-ratings. Just doesn't seem right IMHO, and for all those hearty hard-workers- not the grad-grinders!

It is only natural to err in the face of reason.

Let's look at intent and not judge a book by it's cover.

May God forgive and bless us all.

Waheguroo Jee Kaa KHALSAA! Waheguru Jee Kee FATEHHHHHH!!!

[sukhnidhaan]

<_< BTW, I would just like to add that I reckon is pretty disrespectful that the IkOangkaar cloth was placed behind the sacred scripture- just placed on a stand. IMHO, we should treat ALL religious writings with utmost respect and reverence. However, when studying Christianity at school, I noticed that Christians themselves had no problem putting bibles and hymn books on the dirty, dusty floors. It is indian custom never to put your feet on books or musical instruments. I iunderstand that is why Muslims must use a prayer mat to do their namaaz.

Do'nt be litterbugs.

Ok...I'm off now (thank God- you probably all say with a sigh of relief! )

Good nightie (not petty-coat/cloak)....sleep tight-eeeeeee- hope the bed-bugs don't BITE....yak! {Just snap outta it man!}

Cya peeps!

[HSD]

What is the latest on this situation. Did anyone phone or approach them, and what was there reply.

[TavPrasad Singh]

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!

Hopefully this situation will be resolved soon. I received the below email:

Dear Sir

I have been passed the message that you sent to the Cardinal about the display in St Paul's Bookshop.

Let me apologize immediately for the offence, which was (I hope you will understand) quite unintentional.

I should add that the Bookshop is run by the Society of St Paul, and is completely separate from Westminster Cathedral.

I have contacted the Manager, and asked him to remove the material immediately.

Yours sincerely

Monsignor M Langham

Administrator, Westminster Cathedral

Also before the Easter break I was speaking to employees at the shop and they sounded as if the wanted to resolve the problem.

I am going to contact them after the Easter break and with Guruji's kirpa the display will not be there!

GurFateh!

[HSD]

Have you contacted them.