plastic surgery

[sissy]

i was just reading an article about reconstructive plastic sugery for people who have suffered in accidents etc..http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,8123-1536904,00.html

sikhi tends to encourage the maintenance of what is natural....

so what would are the differnt 'sikh' views on reconstructive (not cosmetic) plastic surgery?...

1) maybe God chose for the accident to happen and therefore the victim should bear the result and not try to return to their former image bcos the change in theie appearance was due to guru's hukum?

2) the accident means the person has lost e.g. their natural face (or any other body part), ie the one they were born with, and therefore plastic surgery is acceptable in trying to restore their original appearance

one may not be able to argue that the guru's did not conisder such an event because apparently the ancient egyptains and hindu's may have done nose reconstructions approx 3000 years ago and also, the guru's who battled surely had some awareness of horrific injuries and their consequences on the human appearance....

[`KuMi´]

platcis i do not like it a bit

i hate it dont like because it looks so gross both ways consmetic and reconstrictive

i discorrage this to the max no1 ever should have plastic surgury done

[gupt_paapi]

FATEH!

well maybe it was in that persons karam 2 get plastic surgery dun 2 him n is face is diff form b4. maybe..?

jsut a thoiught

FATEH!

[Slave2uAll]

all i gotta say is....look at micheal jacksons face and then think again about plastic surgery YUCK! if it happens naturaly, then its meant to be. one way i see it is for example, when u go outside and you got dandilions growing etc and just say u stepped on one. would u put plastic petals on it just so it looks betta?? of course u woudnt! so same thing applies with all other stuff.

[sissy]

kumi....if u read the article there are people who have practically had large holes in their faces....without reconstructive surgery they may die of eg infection....would u still disagree with plastic surgery just bcos it 'looks gross'... i've never come across anything in sikhi that says sikhs should avoid naything that 'looks gross'...

it is interesting to get ur opinion...but what is the view of SIKHI on it

bhul chuk maph...

[`KuMi´]

yup

maharaj jees kirpa, Whatever may happen, will happen for a reason.

e.g.

If One had a serious flaw in their genetic DNA, happen for a reason, this reason is with held by maharaj.

[DhadiMania]

ok lets look at a sitauation....

ok, you were the most handsome man/girl in your school. a beautiful paag making you stand out. a long flowing dhari for some, big broown eyes and long beautiful eye lashes for others. pure white fair skinned, as you stand tall with a shaster in one hand dressed in full banna.

you come back from a rain sabhai, full of anand when suddenly your car crashes. you suffer third degree burns and your now in hospital. you have no idea what the hell is going ona round you. its only a few weeks later when you are looking at the mirror when you cant recognise who you are.

third degree burns cover your whole face, when you try to tie a turban, its hurts and stings the head. your dhari and eyebrows etc have gone. and them beautiful eye lashes? gone. them lovely big brown eyes? well thats your only feature. your skin is no longer white but has all these bubles on it.

a grosse discription it maybe, but doctors say thats how you will live, but even plastic surgery cannot help you, but you can try to reduce 10% of what you look like.

i ask the singhs and singhanis here, if your looks were gone, so that everyone would cower away once they saw your face, that everyone is so schocked about you. would you personally consider it a hukam, and you'd leave yourself look at you are, when you could reduce what you look like (a bit) through plastic surgery)?

i say, when there are desperate times, one should have plastic surgery, but as micheal jackson did, thats wrong. he looked better as he did pehla.

if some people say these stuff like "they cant have plastic surgery no matter what on the basis of hukam" then i ask these singhs and singhanis to come foreward to answer these Q's...

1. if you had a broken leg, would it be justified you should get it bandaged, afterall, didnt god give you this broken leg, so you must accept it?

2. would the same apply to a flu

3. or an operation that could save your life?

gustaphi maaf

[sissy]

thankyou for illustrating this topic with that example...i think it is very helpful

although its a bit sad to think that to be beautiful you have to have fair skin, brown eyes etc....lets remember that although most sikhs are punjabi/indian, sikhi is a lifetsyle that is open to people of all races and that a darker skinned green eyed sikh is as beautiful as any other so long as he respects waheguru ji....we are all god's children and therefore equally beautiful in one way or another

talking of image have u ever noticed the irony of the fact that whilst the images of the gurus eg paintings in people's home and gurdwaras etc all show that the guru's were of a fit/athletic build, so many sikhs (punjabi/indians) are kind of...ahem...'volumptious'....considering the rising cases of obesity, heart disease, diabetes, hypertension etc......perhaps too many sikhs are blind to the message of the guru's that we need to respect our bodies and taking care of our bodies...ie not too much langar!...also exercise can be so mediative...therefore exercise is a form of simran.......try it! jogging with ur kara in hand is really cool! <_<

[`KuMi´]

eww plastic surgery nasttyyy all togeffaa

[japmans]

c'mon bro, give a reason... kandola used an awesome example..

if you dislocate your shoulder, or your arm, and your arm hangs in some 90 degree method, bent in some ridiculous way..... should you NOT pop it back into place? should you NOT get a cast on a broken arm? i mean, if you really think about, it's not natural, regardless of whether it's plastic surgery or not.. why draw a blurry line, right? if ONE thing shouldn't be allowed, then NONE should be allowed. don't take antibiotics for a chest infection, cuz that's how maharaaj did his hukam. Don't take penicillin for your diabetes, cuz that's how it was supposed to happen. Don't get stitches for that cut that has severed a nerve, cuz it goes against maharaaj's hukam..

why is it that we see the negatives in the accident as hukam, but the potential positives as manmat? i mean, i'm going a little off topic, but we say suicide should not be allowed because it interferes with hukam (which really, it doesn't, but that's a whole other topic on its own), so does that mean that if we have the chance to save someone else's life, we shouldn't? cuz that would also be against hukam.

This, like in oh so many other cases, is a blurred line... when you try to be blind and describe an extremely blurry line as black-and-white, you reject the attempt to gain knowledge....

Reconstructive plastic surgery,i would say, yes. Don't forget, Guruji also tells us to live a produtive life. We're saints and soldiers, but we're not just soldiers in the battlfield, but in the battle of life too... that means earning a living, and living honestly. and if you're not gonna be able to get a job with your hole in your face or your hole in your head, then i dunno if that's rrreally hukam...

I mean, on that matter, it shuldn't stop at PLASTIC surgery...ANY surgery should be "banned".... arthroscopic knee surgery...brain surgery... blood transfusions and transplants..liver transplants..... why?/?/ it's ALL hukam, innit?