A meeting with Uk Nangs - taken from Tapoban

[Wutgwan]

The below post is taken from www.tapoban.org and is written by Bhai Kulbir Singh. It is being posted here to bring awarenses to the masses of what the Uk Nangs are about

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Khalsa jeeo,

On March 27th, 2005 Parmjit Singh whom I heard belongs to the UK Nihung Jatha came to Toronto to speak in a conference organised by a Sikh organisation here. We found out about his arrival and decided to attend the conference.

Some Singhs reached there at 11:30am but I and four other Singhs reached there around 3pm. Couple of minutes after our arrival, Parmjit Singh started his lecture. He began his lecture by complaining how the definition of Sikhi was so broad in old days and how it became narrow in the last century or so. Others may not have known but I knew that he was referring to the Singh Sabh movement that brought clarity in Sikhi; the clarity that had been lost because of the fact that Khalsa was busy fighting in jungles and non-Sikhs were the custodians of our gurdwaras at that time.

He showed many pictures and newspaper clippings from last two hundred years. Then he showed the picture of Baba Khem Singh Bedi and he greatly showered praise on him. One of Bedi’s picture was an embodiment of Guru-dumm. It showed Bedi sitting on a throne and a person doing chaur on his head. I interrupted by raising my hand and voiced my comments that it is pure Guru-dumm to do this. Parmjit Singh said something like it was a practice of that time and also expressed his doubts on the authenticity of the picture. I was wondering, why show such a picture that can be misleading and can promote Guru-dumm. I was wondering why he showed such picture that he himself has doubts about.

The lecture continued with I continuing to interrupt where I found objections. I think Parmjit Singh was a bit upset at my comments. At one point, he said something along the lines that it is unfortunate that at one time there used to be idols in the parkarma area of Darbar Sahib but some fundamental Sikhs threw them out. I immediately stood up and corrected him by informing him that it was against Gurmat to have idols at Gudwaras.

He replied by saying that we should let idol-worshippers to come to Darbar Sahib. I replied back saying that even today all idol-worshippers are welcome to all Gurdwaras but these idol worshippers are not allowed to place their idols at our Gurdwaras. He said that if we let them place the idols at the parkarma, they would listen to kirtan and then perhaps change. I said that to do parchaar of Sikhi we cannot break the rules of Gurmat and maryada or Gursikhi. Others in the audience agreed with what I said.

I explained that these idols and other anti-Gurmat practices had crept in our Gurdwaras because the management of our Gurdwaras was not in the hands of Khalsa at that time but in the hands of mahants who did not follow Gurmat. The Singh Sabha movement fixed these problems and maryada was once again restored in our Gurdwaras.

Then he showed a picture of a woman who looked like a good and pious woman but did not look like a Sikh woman. She was wearing a Sari, had a bindi on her forehead and had earrings. Parmjit Singh said that this picture was of a Sikh woman Preacher or a Sikh missionary. I was shocked by his claim and so shocked was the sangat there and even normally mild Sikhs like the most famous Sikh lawyer of Canada – Sardar T. Sher Singh – had to speak up. He said that it was not wise or it was too early to draw conclusions from what the press reports say because even today in this age of knowledge, press does not always cover facts accurately, then how can we expect the press two hundreds years ago to be accurate. The whole audience totally applauded Sardar T. Sher Singh jee’s statement and it seemed that Parmjit Singh too had to reluctantly agree with him.

So ended his presentation. By Guru Sahib’s kirpa, no parchaar of Sanatanism was done in the conference because of the stiff opposition he faced in the audience that interrupted him at any slight deviation from Gurmat.

After the lecture we all came out and Parmjit Singh too came out. He and I said fateh to each other and shook hands. He expressed his desire to have a discussion with me and I readily agreed. While the third lecture started, I came out to stretch my legs and do some paath, that I saw Parmjit Sing there. He was sitting in the sitting area outside and I too sat beside him on a couch. We started having discussion.

I first asked him that why do UK Nihungs put down AKJ Singhs in UK. He tried to avoid this question saying that he did not represent the UK Nihungs but I persisted. I said that I wanted to know why they had to put other organisations down to forward their agenda. He could not answer this question and asked me to name some UK AKJ Singhs who had told me this. I said it was not about persons but about ideology.

I asked him why the UK Nihungs put down Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh jee and accuse him of being a British Agent? He could not answer this question. I then went on saying that at one time pretty much whole of Bhai Sahib’s jatha was in jail and he himself stayed in jail for 16 years. Then how could he have been a British stooge. He had no answer to this.

I then asked him, about how he was preaching in the lecture that Sikhs should be tolerant to all .e.g Udasis and Nirmalay but how come UK Nihungs were not tolerant to AKJ then? I said to him, "you can hug ganjay (skinhead) Udaasee saadhoos but repulse AKJ Singhs who are in baana like you guys." He could not give any satisfactory answer to this.

As we were talking there were two more Singhs with me – Baldeep Singh and Amritpal Singh. As I had finished discussing the above with him, some more Singhs came from inside. One of the Singhs, who was upset at his lecture, came directly to him and said, “You are a direct agent of Indian Government”. Hearing this, Parmjit Singh got upset and uttered an obscenity. The Singhs there respected us and restrained themselves and did not get physical with Parmjit Singh. Otherwise, they would have severely thrashed him for his stupidity.

I pacified them and then asked Parmjit Singh, if he had read the first salok of 21st pauri of Siri Asa kee Vaar. I explained how Guru Sahib tells us that one who utters obscenities is against Gurmat. I told him to apologise to the Singhs. I also told him that he would be in serious trouble with these Singhs if he did not apologised. He refused to do it first but then after few minutes apologised to those Singhs.

I asked Parmjit Singh, if it is okay for an amritdhari Singh to consume liquor. His answer filled not only me but everyone else there with total surprise. He responded saying that in dire circumstances consuming liquor is okay. My next question was what kind of circumstances are those in which a gursikh is allowed to drink liquor. He said that when Singhs used to go to battle or war, they used to drink liquor. He said that liquor helps one in battles. I asked him what was the position of Gurbani and Naam then? I asked him if Baba Deep Singh jee could have consumed liquor. He had no answer. Then I asked him if Gurbani allows for exceptions in drinking liquor. No answer at all.

The worse claim that he made was his support for polygamy. I asked him if a Singh can have sex with a person who is not his wife. To this he again said that in some circumstances, it is allowed. There were many Singhs who were present there who heard him say this and the liquor thing.

Overall, it was a satisfactory meeting with him and I ended this conversation with him requesting him to firstly, review his beliefs that do not seem to be on Gurmat e.g. liquor, drugs, meat and fornication / adultery. Secondly, I asked him to cut the spiteful and venomous attitude they have for AKJ. Whether he will heed to these requests, time will judge that.

What I have written is based on honesty and if Parmjit Singh wants to clarify any point, he is more than welcome to post here.

Daas,

Kulbir Singh

[Gurbar Akaal]

I asked him why the UK Nihungs put down Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh jee and accuse him of being a British Agent? He could not answer this question. I then went on saying that at one time pretty much whole of Bhai Sahib’s jatha was in jail and he himself stayed in jail for 16 years. Then how could he have been a British stooge. He had no answer to this.

I thought this was a really good question, although it doesnt help Kulbir Singh and friends when they go round accusing others of being GOI agents.

I then asked him, about how he was preaching in the lecture that Sikhs should be tolerant to all .e.g Udasis and Nirmalay but how come UK Nihungs were not tolerant to AKJ then? I said to him, "you can hug ganjay (skinhead) Udaasee saadhoos but repulse AKJ Singhs who are in baana like you guys." He could not give any satisfactory answer to this.

Again another good question, personally i believe you should see everyone as your brother and sister.

I asked Parmjit Singh, if it is okay for an amritdhari Singh to consume liquor. His answer filled not only me but everyone else there with total surprise. He responded saying that in dire circumstances consuming liquor is okay. My next question was what kind of circumstances are those in which a gursikh is allowed to drink liquor. He said that when Singhs used to go to battle or war, they used to drink liquor. He said that liquor helps one in battles. I asked him what was the position of Gurbani and Naam then? I asked him if Baba Deep Singh jee could have consumed liquor. He had no answer. Then I asked him if Gurbani allows for exceptions in drinking liquor. No answer at all.

I believe Parmjit Singhs words are taken out of context, he states "in dire circumstances", he didnt say "yeah they can drink whenever they wish". In the same way that people believe eating maas in dire circumstances is fine, why not the same for liquor? A Rehitnama which i have read goes along the lines of "A small amount of intoxicating wine is allowed to be drunk prior to war, in any other times dont even mention its name".

[Wutgwan]

Waheguru ji ka khalsa, Waheguru ji ki Fateh ji

Gurbal Akal

i've had a question that has really bothered me for some time and it's relevent to

I believe Parmjit Singhs words are taken out of context, he states "in dire circumstances", he didnt say "yeah they can drink whenever they wish". In the same way that people believe eating maas in dire circumstances is fine, why not the same for liquor? A Rehitnama which i have read goes along the lines of "A small amount of intoxicating wine is allowed to be drunk prior to war, in any other times dont even mention its name".

When the Nangs first started doing their parchar in uk in 99, they would say it's okay to eat maas in war times, the same Nangs now eat maas as part of their daily food intake. now they are saying one can have sharab in times of war, i wonder if 4 yrs down the line ,they will all be in the pub everynight?

the main qestion is "What defines times of war"

Okay the spirtual war is ongoing for everyone in controlling their mind and i can't see how maas or sharab can help in this

The pyhsical war, well as far as i know the last pyhiscal war the panth fought was 84 and after and i am not gonna go into detail on that in this post

i understood the point that Singhs always need to be mentally and pysically prepared for war as the time could come anytime,

but i personally think (i could be worng) that because it has been part of the khalsa martial traditonal to be ready for war we have to be prepared and to be prepared you need a common enemy

BUT because at present (some could argue RSS) there is no visible enemy, the nangs need an enemy to encourage others to join 'their mighty fauj' and have made other Singhs their enemy, AS their whole Nang-ness started around their blatent hatred of the AKJ

What's the point of preparing for jang, if all your energies go on attacking (verbally) other Singhs.

also there is a strong rumour in UK that at wedding parties and birthdays of Nangs, sharab as been consumed,

i put strong rumour because i wasn't actually there to witness this with my own eyes so don't want to put paap on my head, but if these rumours are true then is getting p~~~~~ at your son's wedding preparing for jang?

anyway its' a shame, cus i know Singhs what rather be busy doign bhagti than waste time on pettiness caused by the behaviour of Nangs in Uk

chello all in Guru'jis hukam

Akaal

[Singh47]

“I thought this was a really good question, although it doesnt help Kulbir Singh and friends when they go round accusing others of being GOI agents.”

It wasn’t Kulbir Singh and his friends who accused Parmjit Singh Jee of being a GOI agent. It was someone else who attended the presentation that accused him of being a GOI agent.

“I believe Parmjit Singhs words are taken out of context, he states "in dire circumstances", he didnt say "yeah they can drink whenever they wish". In the same way that people believe eating maas in dire circumstances is fine, why not the same for liquor? A Rehitnama which i have read goes along the lines of "A small amount of intoxicating wine is allowed to be drunk prior to war, in any other times dont even mention its name".”

what “dire circumstances” can there be for someone committing a Kurahit? If Sharab can be consumed in so-called “dire circumstances”, then can a Sikh also cut his hair in “dire circumstances”?

Furthermore, I don’t understand why puraatan Singhs would want to consume sharab right before battle?

[Guest Akaal108]

“I thought this was a really good question, although it doesnt help Kulbir Singh and friends when they go round accusing others of being GOI agents.”

It wasn’t Kulbir Singh and his friends who accused Parmjit Singh Jee of being a GOI agent. It was someone else who attended the presentation that accused him of being a GOI agent.

“I believe Parmjit Singhs words are taken out of context, he states "in dire circumstances", he didnt say "yeah they can drink whenever they wish". In the same way that people believe eating maas in dire circumstances is fine, why not the same for liquor? A Rehitnama which i have read goes along the lines of "A small amount of intoxicating wine is allowed to be drunk prior to war, in any other times dont even mention its name".”

what “dire circumstances” can there be for someone committing a Kurahit? If Sharab can be consumed in so-called “dire circumstances”, then can a Sikh also cut his hair in “dire circumstances”?

Furthermore, I don’t understand why puraatan Singhs would want to consume sharab right before battle?

91985[/snapback]

were you there singh47??

I couldn't make it that day.. i was at work..

But i like to share one thing which occured in this event.

After the lecture was over... this katar panthi (possibly from babar khalsa/terrorist wing)..he was not from tapoban but he was with tapoban singhs... came up to my freind who wasn't even from england nor he was a nihang nor he shared same views as nihang crew... he started cussing him and threaten him with his life.

These types of fanatics go should back to where they belong ( afghanistan and join their taliban crew).. in civilized country such as Canada.. there is no such place for these kinda people who judge/target people according to one's phsyical appearance.

That's all i gotta add in this thread.

[raj_karega_khalsa]

Waheguru ji ka khalsa Waheguru ji ki fateh!!!

this katar panthi (possibly from babar khalsa/terrorist wing)..

BABBAR KHALSA.TERRORIST WING!? <_< @

if ne1s been wonderin why we dont have khalistan...this mite (sarcastic mite) be a reason!......... how can u even imagine putting terorist beside babbar khalsa...punishing those dirty dogs who raped r sisters n killed r brothers makes them terrorists?!!? i kno this is goin off topic but thas jus disrespect....they gave their lives tryin to protect the khalsa panth n u call em terrorists....wut have u done lately? hav u taken ne bullets defendin sri hariamnder sahib?? hav u died defendin ur sisters?? hav u dun as mush bhagti as sum babbars??? u mite as well call mehtab singh ji n sukha singh ji terrorists as well...

Bhull Chaaak Maph

Waheguru ji ka khalsa Waheguru ji ki fateh

[Guest Akaal108]

sowwie to burst your little bubble after leader of babar khalsa got shaheedi one cannot be soo naive to see how the whole movement which was started by good intentions was hijacked by some fanatics, some indian gov't agents - talvinder singh parmar (read- soft target)

read more on babar khalsa

http://www.sikhawareness.com/sikhawareness...ighlight=babbar

check out 27, 28:

http://www.psepc-sppcc.gc.ca/national_secu.../Entities_e.asp

[ms514]

Sat Sri Akal:

Here we go with the labels... <_< .

If I remember correctly, the British also called the Nihangs terrorists and shot them on sight...shall we continue to call the Nihangs terrorists?

[Gurbar Akaal]

Actually they called the Nihangs "fanatics" not terrorists

[raj_karega_khalsa]

Waheguru ji ka khalsa Waheguru ji ki fateh

sowwie to burst your little bubble after leader of babar khalsa got shaheedi one cannot be soo naive to see how the whole movement which was started by good intentions was hijacked by some fanatics, some indian gov't agents - talvinder singh parmar (read- soft target)

so becuz sum guy wrote a book n says he an agent that means he is?....so wut if i write a book n say baba deep singh ji was an afghan agent spying on the sikhs? <_<

Bhull Chaak Maph

Waheguru ji ka khalsa Waheguru ji ki fateh'