Langar Hall = Tables And Chairs?

[The Khalsa Fauj]

Sitting on the floor and eating Langar is puratan Maryada, we can't change it. Sorry!

[buddasingh]

2. the issue of tables/chairs vs floor is not one such issue.  Such a matter is a local cultural matter and not a central religios matter.  e.g. in punjab majority of ppl wore kurtay pajamay for centuries but living in western world many sikhs adopted pants, shirts and ties clothing.  Neither effects one spirituality and neither is against any principle of gurmat.  Similarly, most ppl in india always have eaten on floor vs most ppl in west eating on tables/chairs.  Again neither of these two effects one spirituality and neither is against any sikhi sidhaant.

145203[/snapback]

Kharkoo would your argument above also apply to support tables and chairs in the darbar? If not what is the distinction in your opinion?

[Kharkoo4Life]

Sitting on the floor and eating Langar is puratan Maryada, we can't change it. Sorry!

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This is my whole point. Just because something was done in a particular manner in purtan times does not mean it is the only way. As ive given many other examples about how food was cooked then, how it was served then vs how it is served now. Is having heated tiles, air conditioning, large screen tvs, electric dishwashers, natural gas stoves, microwaves, electric tea kettles, electric vaccuums etc in the langar hall also all part of puratan maryada? These are all things introduced in the so-called modern western society yet they are accepted as fyne by everyone, including gurdwaras which adamantly reject tables n chairs. Or should we abandon these all as well since no puratan maryada ever listed these as things one should have in the langar hall?

Furthermore, there is a huge difference in something being done in puratan times and classifying it as maryada. I ask for a single hukamnam, rehitnama, granth or any sort of evidence that this "on the floor only langar" was part of any panthic maryada?

If we followed this principle whereby anything just because it was done in puratan times in such and such manner is part of a panthic maryada and unchangeable then the consequences of such a simple naive approach would be very dangerous. There are countless practices in puratan times which were done for various reasons and simply following them cuz ppl "used to do this before" wud be tatamount to ritualism. For instance, in old times, pre-modern widescale availablity of electricity, the main source of light was a diva (oil lamp). People reciting gurbani at night would be dependent on using this as a light source and wud thus keep this diva alongside the guru granth sahib during evenings. Yet today, in times wehre electric lighting is available 24/7 many ppl still devotedly keep divas lit alongside the parkash of guru granth sahib. If u ask them why? they will respond cuz it has always been done this way.

We need to rise above such closed minded thinking and employ a more logic-bases analytical mind. Keeping the diva on in a room lit with lightbulbs wud obviously be pointless. And if they kept doing it, it wud become a hollow ritual which serves no purpose. On the other end, rejecting new changes (i.e. the light bulbs) and saying they go agianst puratan methods so we shud only use divas would be very childish. Why deny something whose only purpose is to make our lives easier?

With regards to langar, yes it would be wonderful if everyone wanted to sit on the floor and eat together. Not because it was done like this in puratan times, but because it is a very humbling and calming manner in which to sit and eat. At the same this practice alone will not make the person humble. On the other hand, if we all sit together on chairs with kindness and love for each other, we can display the same level of humility as the floor. Neither practice is important if one is not of humble mind inside, and equally important neither practice can put this humility magically inside u.

The whole point of sitting low to the ground, vs sitting on chairs is based on the logic that the lower down we sit the more humility we display. SUch a thinking is openly rejected by the guru.

The guru did not want sikhs to get caught up in this false thinking that ones humility or spirituality is tied down to how much visible respect they show. Guru Nanak beautifuly illustrated this:

sBu ko invY Awp kau pr kau invY n koie ]

Everyone bows down to himself; no one bows down to another.

Dir qwrwjU qolIAY invY su gaurw hoie ]

When something is placed on the balancing scale and weighed, the side which descends is heavier.

AprwDI dUxw invY jo hMqw imrgwih ]

The sinner, like the deer hunter, bows down twice as much.

sIis invwieAY ikAw QIAY jw irdY kusuDy jwih ]1]

But what can be achieved by bowing the head, when the heart is impure?

The guru gives other examples elsewhere as well that humility is not tied down to how low one sits or prostrates themselves. ANyone who thinks such is very naive. I am not sayin that we should go and turn gurdwaras into some sort of social lounges or restaurants. All i am trying to show is that we need to understand the WHY behind all our actions. And suffice to say there is no valid reason to say that sittin on floor is the right way to eat langar other than to argue that it was like this in puratan times. (which ive shown above is a very weak argument)

[Kharkoo4Life]

2. the issue of tables/chairs vs floor is not one such issue.  Such a matter is a local cultural matter and not a central religios matter.  e.g. in punjab majority of ppl wore kurtay pajamay for centuries but living in western world many sikhs adopted pants, shirts and ties clothing.  Neither effects one spirituality and neither is against any principle of gurmat.  Similarly, most ppl in india always have eaten on floor vs most ppl in west eating on tables/chairs.  Again neither of these two effects one spirituality and neither is against any sikhi sidhaant.

145203[/snapback]

Kharkoo would your argument above also apply to support tables and chairs in the darbar? If not what is the distinction in your opinion?

145236[/snapback]

As ive stated, if someone has some severe physical ailment would u deny them the right to sit in the sangat cuz they were only able to sit in a chair?

That being said, i dont understand the point of your question. What reason would there be to put tons of tables and chairs in the darbar to begin with? IF there is no reason to have them there why even ask such a question?

By the way, im not sure if u noticed, almost every gurdwara already has tables in the darbar hall!! Tables to put degh on, tables to keep utensils, kleenex, audio equipment etc. Are u shocked?? Will you now argue that this is wrong and we shud throw ALL TABLES out of the gurdwara?

I think you are misinterperting my intentions. I am not out to get everyone to challenge or boycott the entire panthic maryada. I simply want people to be aware about the reasoning behind things, and decide for themselves whether they are valid in light of gurbani or not.

[buddasingh]

2. the issue of tables/chairs vs floor is not one such issue.  Such a matter is a local cultural matter and not a central religios matter.  e.g. in punjab majority of ppl wore kurtay pajamay for centuries but living in western world many sikhs adopted pants, shirts and ties clothing.  Neither effects one spirituality and neither is against any principle of gurmat.  Similarly, most ppl in india always have eaten on floor vs most ppl in west eating on tables/chairs.  Again neither of these two effects one spirituality and neither is against any sikhi sidhaant.

145203[/snapback]

Kharkoo would your argument above also apply to support tables and chairs in the darbar? If not what is the distinction in your opinion?

145236[/snapback]

As ive stated, if someone has some severe physical ailment would u deny them the right to sit in the sangat cuz they were only able to sit in a chair?

That being said, i dont understand the point of your question. What reason would there be to put tons of tables and chairs in the darbar to begin with? IF there is no reason to have them there why even ask such a question?

By the way, im not sure if u noticed, almost every gurdwara already has tables in the darbar hall!! Tables to put degh on, tables to keep utensils, kleenex, audio equipment etc. Are u shocked?? Will you now argue that this is wrong and we shud throw ALL TABLES out of the gurdwara?

I think you are misinterperting my intentions. I am not out to get everyone to challenge or boycott the entire panthic maryada. I simply want people to be aware about the reasoning behind things, and decide for themselves whether they are valid in light of gurbani or not.

145238[/snapback]

The point of my question is to understand your views. I’m not really concerned about your intentions, you seem sincere and intelligent to me. I’ve enjoyed reading many of your posts.

I don’t purport to have all the answers kharkoo. You speak of employing a “logic-bases analytical” mind. I see you often employing logic very well. I’m not asking you to be right or wrong. Maybe you don’t know. Maybe you need to give it thought. Would you simply be so kind as to answer my question?

So, I’m asking about tables and chairs in the darbar for the sangat to sit on. Would your argument above (as copied in my post above) also apply to support tables and chairs in the darbar? If not what is the distinction in your opinion?

[Kharkoo4Life]

2. the issue of tables/chairs vs floor is not one such issue.  Such a matter is a local cultural matter and not a central religios matter.  e.g. in punjab majority of ppl wore kurtay pajamay for centuries but living in western world many sikhs adopted pants, shirts and ties clothing.  Neither effects one spirituality and neither is against any principle of gurmat.  Similarly, most ppl in india always have eaten on floor vs most ppl in west eating on tables/chairs.  Again neither of these two effects one spirituality and neither is against any sikhi sidhaant.

145203[/snapback]

Kharkoo would your argument above also apply to support tables and chairs in the darbar? If not what is the distinction in your opinion?

145236[/snapback]

As ive stated, if someone has some severe physical ailment would u deny them the right to sit in the sangat cuz they were only able to sit in a chair?

That being said, i dont understand the point of your question. What reason would there be to put tons of tables and chairs in the darbar to begin with? IF there is no reason to have them there why even ask such a question?

By the way, im not sure if u noticed, almost every gurdwara already has tables in the darbar hall!! Tables to put degh on, tables to keep utensils, kleenex, audio equipment etc. Are u shocked?? Will you now argue that this is wrong and we shud throw ALL TABLES out of the gurdwara?

I think you are misinterperting my intentions. I am not out to get everyone to challenge or boycott the entire panthic maryada. I simply want people to be aware about the reasoning behind things, and decide for themselves whether they are valid in light of gurbani or not.

145238[/snapback]

The point of my question is to understand your views. I’m not really concerned about your intentions, you seem sincere and intelligent to me. I’ve enjoyed reading many of your posts.

I don’t purport to have all the answers kharkoo. You speak of employing a “logic-bases analytical” mind. I see you often employing logic very well. I’m not asking you to be right or wrong. Maybe you don’t know. Maybe you need to give it thought. Would you simply be so kind as to answer my question?

So, I’m asking about tables and chairs in the darbar for the sangat to sit on. Would your argument above (as copied in my post above) also apply to support tables and chairs in the darbar? If not what is the distinction in your opinion?

145239[/snapback]

I tried answerign it above. The only reason someone would need a chair (apart from physical ailments) is if they were also using a table. THus they would need to be seated high to be at same level of table. But ppl in sangat dont need tables for any purpose (cus they only sitting and listenin to kirtan or katha) thus they dont need chairs.

I see where u are trying to go with this, but seroiusly, i am not saying fill the entire gurdwars with tables, chairs, sofas n lounge chairs. All i said was for purposes of eating langar (which for a sikh should be every meal he eats, be it at home or gurdwara) it does not really matter if they use a table n chair or sit on ground. Both are ok and in accordance with gurmat.

[FaujKaur]

Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa!

Vaheguru Ji Ke Fateh!

I am sorry that I did offend you by calling people lazy and ignorant about sitting on the floor, but, honestly, did you really think I was talking about seniors or people with disabilities. I understand their needs and I sympathize with them, in certain circumstances I am willing to change. But I’m not sure if you been Gurdwara’s where people have lungar while sitting on the floor. People who are older and cannot sit on the floor or have a disability are looked after. I am more concerned with people who just take things for granted. I just feel that when you sit on chairs and tables you’re making the gurdwara into a restaurant scene. To me, there is just something wrong with that picture.

***Just on a side note, I thought that, the main darbar of Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji and the lungar hall were suppose to be on the same floor, so therefore, wherever you go inside the gurdwara you should have your shoes off, head covered, and sit on the floor. Correct me if I’m wrong.***

Judging on my own experiences, I have heard numerous comments from people who hate sitting on the floor. I’ve heard everything from “eww, I can’t sit on the floor my suit will get dirty” to “is sitting on the floor even hygienic, people are walking all over the place, and my food is on the ground.” I came back from the gurdwara today, and while my father was doing seva, he heard many people complaining about the food that was being served, “there is no salt in this dhal” or “why aren’t they serving this subji.” People were not finishing Guru Ji’s food or eating lungar because it did not fit their expectations as to how your suppose to eat food, and what kind of food there should be. Everyone has their own experiences and I guess that shapes up your beliefs. I personally believe that when you sit on chairs and tables you become lazy, and technically you’re looking for the easy way out. There are many problems with the sangat, but why increase them; why not stop them at the root of the cause.

Bhaji, I am not accusing you of promoting chairs and tables, but you asked what peoples opinions were according to Gurbani about this issue. Thus as a Sikh, I was taught by my parents to work hard in all aspects of my lifestyle, and to respect the Guru with the highest admiration. So, I feel that when I go to the gurdwara, I want to sit on the floor, and that the only being that should be sitting higher than everyone else should be Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa!

Vaheguru Ji Ke Fateh!

[raju123]

helo everone in canada

The first picture in the guruwadra where some one in sitting without his head covered , did anyone from the sunsangat give him a menu ????????????

And if no why not ?????

He seam’s like he at some restaurant !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Any one there ?????????with 1 brain cell?

You’re at The guru house

You’re in the guru’s kitchen

Have some bloody respect !!

Ps the ladies in the kitchen did they wear chunie due to respect of where they are or did they have head covers like the ones in normal restaurant kitchens ?

And in England we argue about things but sitting in the lunger hall with out your head covered is a no no !!

Would that person do this at sri Harmandir sahib?.

would they allow this sort of behaiviour.NO i dont think so..

it seens that people in america and canada are making rules to suit their country of where they are.

offence intended but out of sadness..

[sahib singh]

KHARKOO WHAT ABOUT SHOES IN THE LANGAR HALL!!!

[raju123]

Oh shoes ?

Sorry didn’t read too properly shoes cor yes do they also provide Indian music in the back ground? and i don't mean gurbani

surley some one forgot to tell them about the shoe serve that happens in the guruwadra..

Some one actually cleans your shoes for you !!

in england when u leave your shoes on the side as you enter the gurudwara

people do juty serva out of their kindness of their hearts.

it seems u people don't know this !i

This is getting more silly…………… @

offence intended out of sadness..