Am I Wrong?

[Sunny]

Sunny...you better read my post again. There is a question that I asked you to answer, you didn't do that. Furthermore, I am not concerned with other religions that indeed have their own bad aspects, I am at this moment in time, concerned with my religion. You say that the actions and scenarios that I speak of are not condoned by this religion...it's happening and nothing is being done about it, people would rather not deal with it and sweep it under that carpet. You say that I am describing the negative aspects of our culture and people... Yes. I am. These aspects are there for everyone to see and they are rife amongst us, which means that there is complacency and ignorance within our religion (yes all the other religions are ignorant and whatever too, but I'm concerned about Sikhism) and these issues should be dealt with and sorted out, if not the religion will falter, is faltering, divisions have already occured, there is in-fighting in gurdwara's all over, because people have lost the essence of Sikhism. It's not all happy and shiny...don't overlook this...it needs to be dealt with. And answer my question...am I wrong?

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No, you read my post again. I answered your question .. read it again if you have trouble comprehending my post. I figured you would be smart enough to get the gist. You are wrong for thinking that, I didn't realize I had to say it straight out for you when the nature of my post gave a clear cut answer.

The actions and scenarios are not condoned by our religion but it still happens, why? What can religion do for these people? They need to come to a self-realization of what they are doing and there's nothing Sikhi can do to change their minds. It's all in their heads. Sikhi is a choice and it's up to these people to sieze it. We should be more concerned about the youth rather than the adults, as the younglin's are the future of our community.

You talk as if this internal rife in our religion is something new. But has our religion faltered whatsoever? Nope. These internal problems, such as in-fighting, have been developing for many years yet Sikhi is still strong. Our religion has faced many barriers since its conception yet it's growing.

All religions face such problems. There will always be opposing views and no one religion can run smoothly. We're human after all, not Gods. So why are you indulging?

There's no use involving religion in your situation and losing hope. Like I said, it's just a case of bad people who think backwards.

Sure, we have issues in our religion. But indulging in the problems of present-day Sikhism and relating it to your situation is just wierd, considering all the stuff you talked about totally contradicts what SIkhi advocates. Therefore, as I stated earlier, your problems are simply a case of bad culture and backward minded people.

Religion should not have even been introduced in the equation. All that stuff you discussed is inherent to culture only, well in my opinion ...

[MajhelSoorma]

No, you read my post again.  I answered your question .. read it again if you have trouble comprehending my post.  I figured you would be smart enough to get the gist.  You are wrong for thinking that, I didn't realize I had to say it straight out for you when the nature of my post gave a clear cut answer.

The actions and scenarios are not condoned by our religion but it still happens, why? What can religion do for these people? They need to come to a self-realization of what they are doing and there's nothing Sikhi can do to change their minds.  It's all in their heads. Sikhi is a choice and it's up to these people to sieze it.  We should be more concerned about the youth rather than the adults, as the younglin's are the future of our community.

You talk as if this internal rife in our religion is something new.  But has our religion faltered whatsoever? Nope. These internal problems, such as in-fighting, have been developing for many years yet Sikhi is still strong.  Our religion has faced many barriers since its conception yet it's growing.   

All religions face such problems.  There will always be opposing views and no one religion can run smoothly. We're human after all, not Gods. So why are you indulging?

There's no use involving religion in your situation and losing hope.  Like I said, it's just a case of bad people who think backwards.

Sure, we have issues in our religion. But indulging in the problems of present-day Sikhism and relating it to your situation is just wierd, considering all the stuff you talked about totally contradicts what SIkhi advocates.  Therefore, as I stated earlier, your problems are simply a case of bad culture and backward minded people.

Religion should not have even been introduced in the equation.  All that stuff you discussed is inherent to culture only, well in my opinion ...

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I AGREE :TH:

[Taksali Singh]

How in the apparently Superior Jatt caste, it's a norm to beat up your wife, your daughter, your sister, your son, drink till you are paralytic...then beat up anyone in your path and refer to your female family members as

I don't know from where u have heard this BUT THIS IS BULLSH*T

I am a JATT and have never ever seen or heard any kind of thing like this. Its all crap.

and atleast don't defame Jatts, Do u know to which race Maharaja Ranjit Singh, Baghel Singh, Baba Deep Singh, Baba Buddha ji, Mai Bhago ji, Bhai Mani Singh, etc belonged.

These all were Jatt.

Jatts have been GREAT SIKHS.Its true they drink, fight,etc but when they become Amritdharis they mean it.

So don't defame jatts on this sikh website.

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The Gursikhs you quoted above ARE NOT JATS BUT ACTUALLY GURSIKHS! Dont confuse the two and dont try to put Pooran Brahmgianis such as Baba Deep Singh Ji, Baba Buddha Saahib Ji and Bhai Mani Singh Ji in a category that would not only offend them but our Guroo Saahib!

Think before you speak/type.

Castes and Gursikhs dont mix simple as that!

[MajhelSoorma]

The Gursikhs you quoted above ARE NOT JATS BUT ACTUALLY GURSIKHS! Dont confuse the two and dont try to put Pooran Brahmgianis such as Baba Deep Singh Ji, Baba Buddha Saahib Ji and Bhai Mani Singh Ji in a category that would not only offend them but our Guroo Saahib!

Think before you speak/type.

Castes and Gursikhs dont mix simple as that!

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Yes I know they r GURSIKHS and idols for many. :TH:

I didn't meant mix caste with Sikhs but then there r some craps who says Jats can never be great sikhs. Jats only know to drink & fight and made misconception in people's mind. I mentioned them only to show that Jats can become GREAT SIKHS.

There is no doubt about that they r GURSIKHS.

I apologize :wub: if I sent the wrong message.

[randip singh]

I got married out of "caste"! I'm 36 now!

My wife is Sikh, and so am I! To be truthful, if she had been a martian, it would have made no difference, as my Guruji tells me to recognise the human race as one!

Screw caste and all its believers!

[gupt_paapi]

I got married out of "caste"! I'm 36 now!

My wife is Sikh, and so am I! To be truthful, if she had been a martian, it would have made no difference, as my Guruji tells me to recognise the human race as one!

Screw caste and all its believers!

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but martians ent human

haha bet u weere w8ing 4 an <banned word filter activated> 2 say dat

[waheguru_fateh]

I have been brought  up as a sikh...not to discriminate against anyone by creed or colour. I've been brought up in a fairly strict, yet liberal environment. I'm lucky in that even though I live in a rough area, I don't get much racial abuse. A pretty happy world really. Till I fell in love with a girl from the "wrong" caste. Racial abuse from people within your own religion, because you're from a different caste? In a religion that isn't meant to have castes? I didn't even know much about castes within Sikhism till this episode occured. Now I find out that there are like 10 or more castes. Shook my world to the core. I discovered the lowly views each caste has against other castes. How in the apparently Superior Jatt caste, it's a norm to beat up your wife, your daughter, your sister, your son, drink till you are paralytic...then beat up anyone in your path and refer to your female family members as <admin-profanity filter activated>/slag/<admin-profanity filter activated>/<admin-profanity filter activated>. (Obviously, this isn't the case in every jatt house...but i'm told it is in a very high percentage...one of my best friends is jatt and it doesn't happen in his house, so don't think I'm making assuptions from one single case).

So...I'd like to marry this girl, but apparently I can't, due to differences on both sides...(yes, these cross caste marriages do occur more often these days, but how many members of both families are actually happy about it), I can't...and her brother would like to kill me...and her for that matter...even though I'm from a pretty decent background, don't drink, don't eat meat, don't cut my hair, have never had sex with anyone never mind white/black/oriental/asian girls or any of the other normal "he's bad cos of..." reasons

So am I completely wrong in thinking that this whole situation and the many like it, is a complete farce and the whole essence of Sikhism has been diluted, hijacked by anyone with an ego, the gift of the gab and a little "knowledge" of the scriptures and a lot of bad vibes within them?

It would be less controversial and easier...for me to marry a white girl, then to marry a girl from a different caste...even though the requirements for the Anand Karaj are thus:

The Reht Maryada which is The Official Sikh Code of Conduct specifies that no thought should be given to the perspective spouses caste, race or lineage. As long as both the boy and girl profess the Sikh faith and no other faith they may be joined in wedlock by the Anand Karaj ceremony.

So...please...tell me..."Voice of the Sikh Youth" What do you think about this?

(And no I'm not a coconut, I do know about my religion and I'm not of particularly low intelligence)

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our gurus tell us castes are wrong