Baba Jarnail Singh Jees return?

[Guest learner singh]

Let's go with the topic now.

I will let you guys read the below article written with in depth research.

Let me know if it makes sense or not?

There was a brief article I came across by a Sikh writer, Daljeet Singh, about this issue.

"The Gurus have strongly repudiated the theory of

incarnation. To say that man merges in God is clearly to

accept the fact of incarnation. For, by merger the superman

loses his own identity and becomes an unidentifiable part of

God. There is no difference between the two statements that

man merges in God and that God takes the human form. It just

means that transformation can take place both ways. Hence,

the Gurus' emphatic denouncement of the theory of Avtarhood.

For, it gives man and God equal status and is pantheistic,

In fact, the merger of the living mystic in God, and thereby

the loss of his identity, would be a virtual denial of

Sikhism being monotheistic. Most of the Guru Granth is in

the form of humble and devotional prayers to God by the

Gurus. Had they been merged in God, and become identical

with Him, the question of any prayer to God would not arise,

because prayer is always between the two, the devotee and

God. It is not an auto- suggestion. Besides, the idea of the

superman's merger in God would raise the concept of a God

ever-growing in size by the addition of the merged persons.

Such a concept of a changing God would be contrary to the

very definition of God.

On the supposition that the living mystic is a merged

person, another incongruity would arise. After his physical

death, his identity would he completely lost in God. This

raises a problem. It means that the stage of merger after

death is a higher stage than the so-called merger in life.

In fact, it implies the stand of those mystic systems under

which salvation is possible only after death and not in

life, or of those who believe that after Moksha in life, the

remaining life of the mystic is like the movement of the

potter's wheel when the hand of the potter has been removed.

This is something entirely opposed to Sikh mysticism, where

the role of the mystic is a life of continued and unbroken

service of God's Will." pg 226

"An important step in the separate consolidation of the

religion was the compilation of the Adi Granth as the sole

and authentic scripture of the Sikhs. It has a significant

feature. Besides the hymns of the five Gurus, it contains

the hymns of Hindu and Muslim saints. The Adi Granth was

formally installed at the Amritsar temple on the annual

gathering of the Sikhs. From the very start it was

recognized as the Sikh scripture. Emperor Akbar made an

offering of 51 gold coins to the Adi Granth. Its

installation at the only Sikh temple constructed then by the

Guru and the appointment of the most venerated Sikh, Baba

Buddha, as its Granthi (minister), show that it was meant to

be the exclusive scripture of the Sikhs and the embodiment

of the Gurus' system and thought. In this way conjectures

about links with the other systems or scriptures were set at

rest forever. This is an important step, especially when we

find that in the Guru Granth no status or sanctity has been

given to any gods, goddesses or Avatars." - pg 273

Sikhism - A comparative study of its theology and mysticism

Daljeet Singh

ISBN 81-7205-112-3 Singh Bros

[Guest SikhForLife]

thx for the post mkhalsa.. :nihungsmile:

learner .. u bring up excellent points

the reason ppl give importance to Bhindrawala is because he was a great leader.. .. others have died too.. and we should remember them

bhindrawala went on foot village to village.. town to town.. spreading his message.. he was unlike the others.. and we have documents on him from which we can learn.. others dont really have a whole lot of literature.. videos. etc

no one is making a cult.. how do u figure that?

all in all - u bring up good points

[Guest SikhForLife]

vjkk vjkf.. here are my views

Such a concept of a changing God would be contrary to the

very definition of God.

God is formless we know that.. he has no shape.. it may grow.. still it has infinite volume.. its not contrary to the definition as described in Japji sahib... however if we are to say we know God 100% then we are fooling ourselves.. even our Gurus said they cant discribe God... its beyond our minute minds

After his physical

death, his identity would he completely lost in God. This

raises a problem. It means that the stage of merger after

death is a higher stage than the so-called merger in life.

life and death of physical body has no meaning to us... we are merged with God when we are alive.. and we are merged with God when we die.. how can we say its a higher state.. GOd is in every being now.. and God will be in every being when we die.

In fact, it implies the stand of those mystic systems under

which salvation is possible only

after death and not in

life, or of those who believe that after Moksha in life, the

remaining life of the mystic is like the movement of the

potter's wheel when the hand of the potter has been removed.

our Goal is to merge with God in this very life.. by following Gurbani.. i cant tell you when that stage is reached.. cuz i havent achieved it.. who knows what will happed to us after this life.. we have no idea.. we should focus on this life..

[Guest learner singh]

Wahe Guru Ji Ka Khalsa, Wahe Guru Ji Ki Fateh,

the reason ppl give importance to Bhindrawala is because he was a great leader.. .. others have died too.. and we should remember them

Yes, he was a great Sikh of Sikhism. I have a great respect for him but still I keep respect for every sikh who has died for Sikhism or living for Sikhism. NO less or higher respect for anyone.

bhindrawala went on foot village to village.. town to town.. spreading his message.. he was unlike the others.. and we have documents on him from which we can

learn.. others dont really have a whole lot of literature.. videos. etc

Yes, he did good prachar of Sikhism. What are the basic rules of Sikhism? If you can't see GOD in all then you can't see GOD at all? Are we following it? whatever he did is respectful but we should not forget others and give them same place as Baba Jarnail singh.

no one is making a cult.. how do u figure that?

Cult's definition?

A religion or religious sect generally considered to be extremist or false, with its followers often living in an unconventional manner under the guidance of an authoritarian, charismatic leader.

The followers of such a religion or sect.

A system or community of religious worship and ritual.

The formal means of expressing religious reverence; religious ceremony and ritual.

A usually nonscientific method or regimen claimed by its originator to have exclusive or exceptional power in curing a particular disease.

Obsessive, especially faddish, devotion to or veneration for a person, principle, or thing.

The object of such devotion.

An exclusive group of persons sharing an esoteric, usually artistic or intellectual interest

I see that in Jarnail singh Bhindrawale's followers of this time. They have less knowledge of Sikhism, and let me know if anyone of them hold the position as "baba Jarnail singh" as far as it goes to Sikhism? There is no work being done to spread the word of Sikhism but only mission is to discuss what Baba Jarnail singh ji did when he was alive.

They need to make it straight that he was fighting for sikhs and sikhism, and if there is no sikhism and sikhs then there won't be any memory of any sikh Shaeed, so first bring youth to sikhism and make everyone aware of sikhism and then there won't be any issue.

How many Sikhs support Khalistan? Ans. 10% sikhs living in western countries.

Spend time to bring all Sikhs to below codes and we don't have to cry for human rights.

Worship the One Almighty God (AKAL)

Believe in the Guru Granth Sahib as the Word of God

Be in company of the Khalsa (Those who are God Intoxicated)

[Guest GABROO DESH PUNJAB DAH]

:D ) SANT MAHARPUSH JARNAIL SINGH JI KHALSA BHINDARWALLE WILL BE BACK.....

HE'S IN CHARDI KALAA AND IS YET TO REALISE IT

AS WE ALL KNOW THE MAHAAAN SINGHS JINDA AND SUKHA WHERE VERY VERY DHARMI, AND DID LOTS OF PAAT, THEY DID ARDAAS B4 SHAHEEDI TO LET THEM BE BORN AS KHASLAYE AGAIN SO THEY COULD EMBRACE THE HANG MANS NOOSE ONCE MORE FOR KHALISTAN....... U THINK WAHEGUROO WON'T GRANT THEM THAT

AND SAME IS FOR BABA JARNAIL SINGH JI

2004 PREPARE

[Deep Singh]

It all comes down to the age-old debate of modernists vs traditionalists......

on one side u have MKhalsa ji holding their views about MahaPurash Sikhs, and how they have seen God....while on the other side v got Learner Singh ji who is posting a reply with quotes from a book by Daljeet Singh...from Institute of Sikh Studies, Chandigarh..and NO DOUTE a modernist....i have read some articles/books by this gentleman and surely the guy does not like our Mahapurshs...

any way i just like to add that Daljeet Singh does not believe in Dasam Granth (or other 'sikhs writings'), and just and just in SGGS, perhaps also Bhai Gurdas' writings...any way it is pretty clear that he does not get the incarnation teory....

My views:

1) Yes, i belive in reincarnation...that our souls from one body to other AFTER DEATH...not before...

2) God can not 'be born' in a human body....no incarnation or Godly Avatarhood here...

3) However if u guys now DG..there is a talk about the 24 avatar of Krishn.....DO I BELIEVE IN HINDU GODS SINCE DG MENTIONS THEM? well, guys DG does not tell us that these 'gods' were incarnations of God, but about what they did..like heroes and stuff.. and i believe that these 'gods' were no more than Bhagats or devoted themselves to God, and therefore i have respect for them, BUT DO TO

WORSHIP THERE PHOTOS OR STUFF LIKE THAT....they were incarnations of a guy called Krishn, not of God! therefore no Godly Avatarhood here too...

4) Now, if u r with me..i say that i believe in Reincarnation of human soul after death (if we have not "merged in God")...but God does not come as a human...but Bhagats can have several births or a linked soul...like the same jot as Gurus had...only to enlighten human on God's Path.....WOULD BHINDRAWALE OR OTHER GREAT BHAGATS/SOULS OR EVEN GURUJI COME BACK AS HUMANS TO SERVE GOD, AND SHOW US THE ROAD? why do we forget that God does not need to send any new 'prophets' or 'incarnation of former bhagats'..CAUSE WE GOT SGGS..which is the final JOT of Gurus and the connection between us and Akal Purakh...get it?so no bhindrwale or others would not come....for this reason...

5) What is Merging in God or being One with God? As some of u may know; there r four main theories about the relationship between God and human:

1. Strict Monotheism (like Islam has..where God is not in the nature, something unique or different and not 'in' us....and perhaps the faith Mr. Daljeet Singh follow)

2. Polotheist (practical Hinduism is polotheism cause they have created idols of Bhagats and started worshiping them....whoever these 'gods' were just like Gurus...followers of Akal Purakh)

3. Monism (the thought that every thing has One ORIGIN....perhaps some new sikh scholars try to say that Gurmat is this one)

4. Pantheism ( every thing is ONE....as humans in this present form are NOT seperate from God- which is Universal Oneness-or a melange of 'hindu gods' who all are One in Brahm)

----

Now, Sikhism can be both 1,3,4 NOT 2. but by answaring to this questions we will see what is the best: what is merging into God? those of us who have read SGGS, may have come across these words 'be One with God' or 'merge into God'....now let us start with a critique o

f Daljeet Singh....he says that being 'one with God' means that we get a higher state....he is seeing it through a different view and SGGS has soemthing else......it is said GOD IS EVERYWHERE....he is here rite now, he is not like the Islam/Judaist belief that God is in heaven or far away! AND secondly: ONLY GOD IS TRUE! so what would be being one with God??? it is nothing else than living a life based upon Gurmat principles...and FINDING OUR INNER SELF..that is TRUE...because God EveryWhere and has no shape but the Value that HE is True...so for us it is to find the state where there is nothing but the Truth...no pain or harm or ego or anger! that is living with God or besides God or in God or whatsoever metaphor u may use that Daljeet Singh does not understand!

Concluding: i think nr. 4 pantheism would be a 'good' shot, BUT remember that saying this means that ignorant people start thing that human beings are 'Gods' or 'God'...just like what happened to Hinduism.....so i would say that Sikhism is somewhere near monotheism and monism...where as in SGGS is said that God expaned to form the Universe and therefore u have the Same Source and God is Still Everywhere, Yet One and not divided!

Deep Singh...ur long lost bro...now found :nihungsmile:

[Guest SikhForLife]

if you think bhindrawala will be back.. then why dont u think Guru nanak will be back?

[Deep Singh]

if you think bhindrawala will be back.. then why dont u think Guru nanak will be back?

i dont think anyone who has passed will be back .. this is a practical religion.. its not God's system (as we know it so far) to bring the dead back.....

bro SikhforLife...who r u refer to? NOT ME, i guess..?

[Guest SikhForLife]

anyone who thinks that

[Guest Guest]

veer sikh4life, dhun siri guru nanak dev ji maharaj returned 10 times, he's done his duty and has embodied him self with in dhun dhun siri guru granth sahib ji maharaj, plus Guru jis where above ne human in that respect, limitless they where.

But as i said veer, they where already tiight with god, sants, sukha jinda ji, u think god won't respect their ardaas.?