Shaheedi, Sach Khand?

[Singhstah]

its not an implication, its a statement.

And i dont understand, 50% of sikhs are amritdhari? BY DEFINITION FROM SIKH REHIT MARYADA, " v. the baptism bequeathed by the tenth Guru, and who does not owe allegiance to any other religion, is a Sikh", baptism meaning AMRIT.

And as for only those taking amrit reaching sachkhand, well thats my view, if u really want prrof etc. reply and ask.

and also, just cause sum1 isnt sikh in this life, dont mean there doomed forever, if they live good lives in watever religion they are, they most probably get to be gursikhs in the next life.

[CuriousGeorge]

its not an implication, its a statement.

And i dont understand, 50% of sikhs are amritdhari? BY DEFINITION FROM SIKH REHIT MARYADA, " v. the baptism bequeathed by the tenth Guru, and who does not owe allegiance to any other religion, is a Sikh", baptism meaning AMRIT.

And as for only those taking amrit reaching sachkhand, well thats my view, if u really want prrof etc. reply and ask.

and also, just cause sum1 isnt sikh in this life, dont mean there doomed forever, if they live good lives in watever religion they are, they most probably get to be gursikhs in the next life.

If you are willing to oblige me, please offer definitive proof that those who take amrit are the only ones with ticket into liberation and salvation.

[N30S1NGH]

VahegurooJiKaKhalsaVahegurooJiKiFateh

No matter who it is, there is no sach khand without amrit.

There are some sakhis about babies coming into Gursikh households and being given amrit just alittle while after birth, or as very young children, and then dying and going straight to Sachkhand. This is because they were very high souls in their past lives, but as they hadnt recieved the gift of amrit, couldnt go to Sachkhand. As all they needed was amrit, they didnt have to live out their whole life, and could leave once they had recieved it.

It is my belief that this is what happens with those Shaheed Singhs who were not amritdhari.

VahegurooJiKaKhalsaVahegurooJiKiFateh

You are making a remarkably unsual and awkward proposition. That is, effectively, there is no true liberation/salvation without holy nectar.

This is not only obtuse, it is absurd.

The implication you are making is that only those who have taken holy nectar -- that is a fraction of the world's 23 million Sikhs -- will ever reach true liberation.

Let's consider this. Assume that 50% of the world's Sikhs have indeed taken nectar (a very liberal estimate). That gives us 11.5 million human beings in general poised for Salvation. That implies that only 0.002% of the world (all Sikhs, mind you) will ever reach Salvation.

This is absurd!! Are you implying that the Sikh god favors those who drink nectar with regards to entry into his kingdom of Sach Khand? And that this drinking of nectar over-rules the potential millions of good deeds and accumulation of good karma of an individual, particularly if he does not follow the Sikh faith?

In response to your ignorance, it's safe to say that the other 99.998% of us would rather have nothing to do with a doctrine or dogma which instills such skewed, unreasonable and foolish values.

yeah this is halirous, don't be suprised bro curious george, soon you will get a response you won't get salvation without taking amrit from so and so jatha, without performing meditation so and so way, these black and white idealogies may be created by jatha's leaders etc but it has nothing to do with marg(route) of sri guru nanak dev ji who gave his divine discourses to everyone not just sikhs, gave three basic principles to one with God-

-naam jaapo (meditate on lord)

-kirat karo (do hard work)

-vand kaie shako (share your wealth, food with others who are in needy)

There are many meanings of amrit(nectar) depending on which state you are on, someone probably will quote gurbani which mentions amrit in it and try to convince you that guru ji talking about khanda da amrit(sanskar amrit) in that couplet instead of bhramgyan amrit(nectar tasted on tenth door).

[KH4L1$T4N1]

so namstang you saying a non-Amritdhari can get into SachKhand?

[Singhstah]

VahegurooJiKaKhalsaVahegurooJiKiFateh

Namstang, seriously, you are on sad man get OVER your blind HATE for the Jatha, im not asking you to join the jatha, im not askign you to attend their events, but if you havent got anything nice to say don't say it at all. Do you think Guroo Sahib likes it when his Singhs/Singhneea aare crtiscised for what they think is right? and how they like to show their pyaar for Guroo Ji? Even if you think theyre wrong, you dont hvae to hate on them, aslong as they arent actively hurting anyone, and in that case, its no use b*tching on a forum, go do something about it.

Getting back to the topic, theres MANY quotes from Gurbani I can use, aand that dont involve the word Amrit.

First, i am sure that we all agree (as according to the SIkh Rehit Marayda), one who has not taken amrit and follow the BASIC rehit is not a Sikh. This also means that they are nigurae, without guroo (unless ofcourse they are active followers of another religion, in which case the prophet of that religion is there guroo). NOW, in Anand Sahib JI, it says " jai ko gur te vemukh hovay, BIN SATGUR MUKAT NA PAAVAI. Meaning, "if one turns his face from Guroo sahib, he will not get liberation without the TRUE GURU" now im sure that you all believe Guroo Granth Sahib Ji is true guroo right, and obviously the highest state of mukti is Sachkhand.

In conclusion, Unless you take amrit Guroo Sahib is not your guroo.

Without Guroo Sahib there is no Sachkhand

VahegurooJiKaKhalsaVahegurooJiKiFateh

[CuriousGeorge]

NOW, in Anand Sahib JI, it says " jai ko gur te vemukh hovay, BIN SATGUR MUKAT NA PAAVAI. Meaning, "if one turns his face from Guroo sahib, he will not get liberation without the TRUE GURU" now im sure that you all believe Guroo Granth Sahib Ji is true guroo right, and obviously the highest state of mukti is Sachkhand.

In conclusion, Unless you take amrit Guroo Sahib is not your guroo.

Without Guroo Sahib there is no Sachkhand

VahegurooJiKaKhalsaVahegurooJiKiFateh

I think you have mis-interpreted this quote. "Guru" in Sikhism has two distinct and important translations. That is, Guru means the worldly teacher, such as Nanak and his successors (including the Granth Sahib) AND more importantly, Guru means God -- the ultimate Teacher.

The quote you mentioned refers to Satgur -- which is almost ALWAYS a connotation to God. It does NOT mean the Granth Sahib or any other world Guru but God. That is, there is no liberation without God.

This is a common misinterpretation and any scholar will tell you as much.

[waheguru_fateh]

its not an implication, its a statement.

And i dont understand, 50% of sikhs are amritdhari? BY DEFINITION FROM SIKH REHIT MARYADA, " v. the baptism bequeathed by the tenth Guru, and who does not owe allegiance to any other religion, is a Sikh", baptism meaning AMRIT.

And as for only those taking amrit reaching sachkhand, well thats my view, if u really want prrof etc. reply and ask.

and also, just cause sum1 isnt sikh in this life, dont mean there doomed forever, if they live good lives in watever religion they are, they most probably get to be gursikhs in the next life.

First of all there is no "sikh god" and secondly to reach god u must practise ure religion fully

[The Khalsa Fauj]

Well, if the person has been living a GurSikh life and given Shaheedi. Then mukti is yes. If the person was corrupt and stuff but straightened out late and gave Shaheedi. I say the person would come back and most likely follow Gurmat and get mukat.

[Singhstah]

NOW, in Anand Sahib JI, it says " jai ko gur te vemukh hovay, BIN SATGUR MUKAT NA PAAVAI. Meaning, "if one turns his face from Guroo sahib, he will not get liberation without the TRUE GURU" now im sure that you all believe Guroo Granth Sahib Ji is true guroo right, and obviously the highest state of mukti is Sachkhand.

In conclusion, Unless you take amrit Guroo Sahib is not your guroo.

Without Guroo Sahib there is no Sachkhand

VahegurooJiKaKhalsaVahegurooJiKiFateh

I think you have mis-interpreted this quote. "Guru" in Sikhism has two distinct and important translations. That is, Guru means the worldly teacher, such as Nanak and his successors (including the Granth Sahib) AND more importantly, Guru means God -- the ultimate Teacher.

The quote you mentioned refers to Satgur -- which is almost ALWAYS a connotation to God. It does NOT mean the Granth Sahib or any other world Guru but God. That is, there is no liberation without God.

This is a common misinterpretation and any scholar will tell you as much.

fateh

very sorry for the late reply,i just remembered this topic this morning

anyway,, as for me misinterpreting the meaning of Satgur, and it actually refering to God, explain this tuk then,

ਸੋ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਵਾਹੁ ਵਾਹੁ ਜਿਨਿ ਹਰਿ ਸਿਉ ਜੋੜਿਆ ॥

so satgur vaahu vaahu jin har si-o jorhi-aa.

Waaho! Waaho! - Hail! Hail! to the True Guru, who has united me with the Lord.

CLEARLY, Satugur and God, ie.har, are shown as two distinct beings, why would guroo sahib say this if (in this context) satgur and god were the same?It is obviously reffering to our 11 patshaas.

If that still hasnt convinced you, have a look at this

ਬਿਨੁ ਗੁਰ ਪੂਰੇ ਨਾਹੀ ਉਧਾਰੁ ॥

bin gur pooray naahee uDhaar.

Without the Perfect Guru, no one is saved.

[GABROO KHALISTAN DAH]

I had the honor of driving around a Dhadi Jatha once, and we talked about Shaheedi and its relevance to Saach Khaand. What the Baba told me is that Shaheedi is greater then a life time of Naam Abyaas.