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Gurudwara's And Pointless Rituals


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GuruFateh!

A point I would like to raise is that at most weddings attended by myself or at least watching other people's weddings on films, I've noticed that when it comes to the Laavan, the brother's of the girl tend to stand around the palki and guide their sister around. Obviously I know this has been present for many years now but a new addition is that the girl's sisters also stand up now.

I'm of the thinking that this is a pointless practice and the onus should be on elder (or younger) family members with Sikhi knowledge to inform their families and the next step should be for the Gurudwara to enforce. In my opinion, their is no religous significance of these persons standing. No one should interfere during the Laavan. The Laavan are taken in the Guru's Hazoori and involve the couple, Guru Granth Sahib and ultimately, Waheguru. I think its just another pointless Panjabi ritual which is done because people have been doing it for years without questioning why do we do it.

Sangat opinions appreciated.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!

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Hm... good point.

But i Dont seem to see any downside of it. Lets first get rid of the worst ones... how about the kalgi on groom? Or the surma ceremony.. and the haldi-rubbing ...everything.

Sat Sri Akal!

The groom wearing a Kalgi is a disgrace! If you think you can live up to being the great Guru Gobind Singh, then wear a Kalgi. Honestly, I wonder if some people's heads function at all. I've personally never been to a wedding wear the groom has worn a kalgi (didn't know this occured).

Are you also refering to the Sorma ceremony (the one wear the groom's Bhabi puts Sorma in your eyes)? That's also pointless. If you attend the Guru's hazoori in the correct Sikh manner that is appropriate. The Haldi ceremony (AKA. Maiyan) also makes me laugh. Where is the logic in rubbing a haldi based paste on the groom. I think that one takes the biscuit.

Gupt_Paapi, why I stated about the person's standing during the Laavan is that this occurs in the Gurudwara in the presence of the Guru whereas the Sorma ceremony and Maiyan don't. But all these so-called ceremony's need to be eliminated. I've raised this point with numerous family members and when I explain from a religous point of view, they agree but yet can't bring themselves to put a stop to it.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!

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You guys are Wahabis LOL.gif You guys should take best of everything and become like the followers of Din-e-Ilahi.

The kalgi thing is now a good photo opportunity. The sisters of the groom gather round for a phto opportunity. Sometimes they even offer the used kalgi to Guru Ji. Then we have the Anand Karaj and the brothers rush for a photo opportunity. Each step of the lawaan is choreographed for the photo wala. At one wedding I went to the boys did not know how many lawaan there were and got ready for the fifth.

Haldi is good in milk. I remember in India we used to have kesar badam milk shake powder. Ok it was not as good as Nesquick but it tasted ok.

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the surma and haldi ceremony are inconsequential and are primarily punjabi cultural practices. they do not take place with guru's hazoori. the kalgi ceremony, we would hope people would have a clear idea of who the real king is ALWAYS. but ultimately, these are punjabi rituals and are part of a punjabi wedding, not the sikh facet of the wedding.

the primary ceremony we should be concerned about reforming is the lawaan with the brothers at the side prodding the weak bride along. the anand karaj ceremony is solely a sikh ceremony and is carried out in the Guru's presence. this tradition was/is carried about because people believe the girl is too weak/fragile to be able to do her lawaan without help.

my brothers won't be helping me walk around when it comes time. i can walk for myself and i'm not a piece of cattle that my family or brothers will be handing over to my future husband. so gross! girls, walk for yourselves. brothers, tell your sisters you'll be there for them always but it is their wedding and they are the ones making this committment with the guru's blessing, so you will just be a proud witness in the sangat.

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I just got back from a wedding in India and nobody stood to “help the bride to do laavan”, when I questioned it they said that’s how its done nowadays…

So it seems that in India the girls are stronger and can walk for them self’s maybe the west needs to catch up……….

Ps it looked better as the couple were the only ones going around. :TH:

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kalgi is 4 kings

surma is for women

haldi is for food.. whicch takes the biscuit

gr8 summary! lol!

All this would only apply to Gursikhs right? coz, if at weddings people dress up in a flash suit and stuff i.e. to do stuff to make their appearance more ummmm..."beautiful?" then what is the added harm of them wearing surma and putting haldi on? coz haldi is done to make the skin colour look fairer I think.

Whereas I think the Kalgi wearing thing ought to be ban coz why wear it and then present your "used one" (as Kurtas rightly out it) to Maharaj. It's a joke that you act like you suddenly had an inspiration that it is wrong to wear it in the Darbar sahib.

wahabis indeed! lol!

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Not sure about the kalgi, though in the instances I know, the groom takes it off before entering the Gurdwara/Darbar Sahib. Other instances, it's not worn at all.

Haldi - AFAIK cleans the skin and makes it lighter. Bride and groom have gotta look best on their wedding day.

Lavaan - did they actually do this back in the times that Guru Ji was in human form? Or is it something that has come from Hinduism (going round four times)? The lavaan are meant to represent the four steps to meeting with the Lord. In some Gurdwaras, namely Nanaksar ones, the Guru is placed in such a way that it is impossible to go around Him for the Lavaan. Instead the bride and groom stand up at each bit and matha tek at the end.

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Lavaan - did they actually do this back in the times that Guru Ji was in human form? Or is it something that has come from Hinduism (going round four times)? The lavaan are meant to represent the four steps to meeting with the Lord.

Gurfateh!!

Your better off just reading the shabad to find out the truth:

ਸੂਹੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੪ ॥

Soohee, Fourth Mehl:

ਹਰਿ ਪਹਿਲੜੀ ਲਾਵ ਪਰਵਿਰਤੀ ਕਰਮ ਦ੍ਰਿੜਾਇਆ ਬਲਿ ਰਾਮ ਜੀਉ ॥

In the first round of the marriage ceremony, the Lord sets out His Instructions for performing the daily duties of married life.

ਬਾਣੀ ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਵੇਦੁ ਧਰਮੁ ਦ੍ਰਿੜਹੁ ਪਾਪ ਤਜਾਇਆ ਬਲਿ ਰਾਮ ਜੀਉ ॥

Instead of the hymns of the Vedas to Brahma, embrace the righteous conduct of Dharma, and renounce sinful actions.

ਧਰਮੁ ਦ੍ਰਿੜਹੁ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਧਿਆਵਹੁ ਸਿਮ੍ਰਿਤਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਦ੍ਰਿੜਾਇਆ ॥

Meditate on the Lord's Name; embrace and enshrine the contemplative remembrance of the Naam.

ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਗੁਰੁ ਪੂਰਾ ਆਰਾਧਹੁ ਸਭਿ ਕਿਲਵਿਖ ਪਾਪ ਗਵਾਇਆ ॥

Worship and adore the Guru, the Perfect True Guru, and all your sins shall be dispelled.

ਸਹਜ ਅਨੰਦੁ ਹੋਆ ਵਡਭਾਗੀ ਮਨਿ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਮੀਠਾ ਲਾਇਆ ॥

By great good fortune, celestial bliss is attained, and the Lord, Har, Har, seems sweet to the mind.

ਜਨੁ ਕਹੈ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਲਾਵ ਪਹਿਲੀ ਆਰੰਭੁ ਕਾਜੁ ਰਚਾਇਆ ॥੧॥

Servant Nanak proclaims that, in this, the first round of the marriage ceremony, the marriage ceremony has begun. ||1||

ਹਰਿ ਦੂਜੜੀ ਲਾਵ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਮਿਲਾਇਆ ਬਲਿ ਰਾਮ ਜੀਉ ॥

In the second round of the marriage ceremony, the Lord leads you to meet the True Guru, the Primal Being.

ਨਿਰਭਉ ਭੈ ਮਨੁ ਹੋਇ ਹਉਮੈ ਮੈਲੁ ਗਵਾਇਆ ਬਲਿ ਰਾਮ ਜੀਉ ॥

With the Fear of God, the Fearless Lord in the mind, the filth of egotism is eradicated.

ਨਿਰਮਲੁ ਭਉ ਪਾਇਆ ਹਰਿ ਗੁਣ ਗਾਇਆ ਹਰਿ ਵੇਖੈ ਰਾਮੁ ਹਦੂਰੇ ॥

In the Fear of God, the Immaculate Lord, sing the Glorious Praises of the Lord, and behold the Lord's Presence before you.

ਹਰਿ ਆਤਮ ਰਾਮੁ ਪਸਾਰਿਆ ਸੁਆਮੀ ਸਰਬ ਰਹਿਆ ਭਰਪੂਰੇ ॥

The Lord, the Supreme Soul, is the Lord and Master of the Universe; He is pervading and permeating everywhere, fully filling all spaces.

ਅੰਤਰਿ ਬਾਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਏਕੋ ਮਿਲਿ ਹਰਿ ਜਨ ਮੰਗਲ ਗਾਏ ॥

Deep within, and outside as well, there is only the One Lord God. Meeting together, the humble servants of the Lord sing the songs of joy.

ਜਨ ਨਾਨਕ ਦੂਜੀ ਲਾਵ ਚਲਾਈ ਅਨਹਦ ਸਬਦ ਵਜਾਏ ॥੨॥

Servant Nanak proclaims that, in this, the second round of the marriage ceremony, the unstruck sound current of the Shabad resounds. ||2||

ਹਰਿ ਤੀਜੜੀ ਲਾਵ ਮਨਿ ਚਾਉ ਭਇਆ ਬੈਰਾਗੀਆ ਬਲਿ ਰਾਮ ਜੀਉ ॥

In the third round of the marriage ceremony, the mind is filled with Divine Love.

ਸੰਤ ਜਨਾ ਹਰਿ ਮੇਲੁ ਹਰਿ ਪਾਇਆ ਵਡਭਾਗੀਆ ਬਲਿ ਰਾਮ ਜੀਉ ॥

Meeting with the humble Saints of the Lord, I have found the Lord, by great good fortune.

ਨਿਰਮਲੁ ਹਰਿ ਪਾਇਆ ਹਰਿ ਗੁਣ ਗਾਇਆ ਮੁਖਿ ਬੋਲੀ ਹਰਿ ਬਾਣੀ ॥

I have found the Immaculate Lord, and I sing the Glorious Praises of the Lord. I speak the Word of the Lord's Bani.

ਸੰਤ ਜਨਾ ਵਡਭਾਗੀ ਪਾਇਆ ਹਰਿ ਕਥੀਐ ਅਕਥ ਕਹਾਣੀ ॥

By great good fortune, I have found the humble Saints, and I speak the Unspoken Speech of the Lord.

ਹਿਰਦੈ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਧੁਨਿ ਉਪਜੀ ਹਰਿ ਜਪੀਐ ਮਸਤਕਿ ਭਾਗੁ ਜੀਉ ॥

The Name of the Lord, Har, Har, Har, vibrates and resounds within my heart; meditating on the Lord, I have realized the destiny inscribed upon my forehead.

ਜਨੁ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਬੋਲੇ ਤੀਜੀ ਲਾਵੈ ਹਰਿ ਉਪਜੈ ਮਨਿ ਬੈਰਾਗੁ ਜੀਉ ॥੩॥

Servant Nanak proclaims that, in this, the third round of the marriage ceremony, the mind is filled with Divine Love for the Lord. ||3||

ਹਰਿ ਚਉਥੜੀ ਲਾਵ ਮਨਿ ਸਹਜੁ ਭਇਆ ਹਰਿ ਪਾਇਆ ਬਲਿ ਰਾਮ ਜੀਉ ॥

In the fourth round of the marriage ceremony, my mind has become peaceful; I have found the Lord.

ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਮਿਲਿਆ ਸੁਭਾਇ ਹਰਿ ਮਨਿ ਤਨਿ ਮੀਠਾ ਲਾਇਆ ਬਲਿ ਰਾਮ ਜੀਉ ॥

As Gurmukh, I have met Him, with intuitive ease; the Lord seems so sweet to my mind and body.

ਹਰਿ ਮੀਠਾ ਲਾਇਆ ਮੇਰੇ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਭਾਇਆ ਅਨਦਿਨੁ ਹਰਿ ਲਿਵ ਲਾਈ ॥

The Lord seems so sweet; I am pleasing to my God. Night and day, I lovingly focus my consciousness on the Lord.

ਮਨ ਚਿੰਦਿਆ ਫਲੁ ਪਾਇਆ ਸੁਆਮੀ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮਿ ਵਜੀ ਵਾਧਾਈ ॥

I have obtained my Lord and Master, the fruit of my mind's desires. The Lord's Name resounds and resonates.

ਹਰਿ ਪ੍ਰਭਿ ਠਾਕੁਰਿ ਕਾਜੁ ਰਚਾਇਆ ਧਨ ਹਿਰਦੈ ਨਾਮਿ ਵਿਗਾਸੀ ॥

The Lord God, my Lord and Master, blends with His bride, and her heart blossoms forth in the Naam.

ਜਨੁ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਬੋਲੇ ਚਉਥੀ ਲਾਵੈ ਹਰਿ ਪਾਇਆ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਅਵਿਨਾਸੀ ॥੪॥੨॥

Servant Nanak proclaims that, in this, the fourth round of the marriage ceremony, we have found the Eternal Lord God. ||4||2||

Bhul Chuk Maaf!

Gurfateh!!

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