The Origin Of The Universe

[Khalsa04]

Its so true, you can go over this THOUSANDS and THOUSANDS of times but never get to the bottom of this

me and my mates always discuss this but we never reach a satisftying answer

its so weird yet amazing yet scary yet funny becuase we dont kno what is going on

one of my mates suggested "the matrix" lol

[Raju]

>>God asks for sacrifice when one states that he is above normal people. Sacrificing for ones belief is the ultimate

This is what I too used to believe stronly.... my knowledge about the Sikh gurus isn't exemplary but I think Guru Gobind Singh w/two sons and Guru Tegh Bahadur died fighting. Correct me if I am wrong and bear with me if innacurate. I didn't know if anyone else died fighting so I put it in plural.

Coming to the Abrahamic religions most of the prophets died violently, with the most violent death being that of Jesus. Being a Christian I used to take great courage from this fact that Jesus died violently and somewhere in my heart, till now I determined myself that as a nation Christians would henceforth crush the head and rip the heart out of those who cast an evil eye against us as had happened with the Phariseans (jewish clergy during times of Jesus) who tricked/betrayed Jesus.

Recently I read a South African shaman by the name of Credo Mutwa, I was humming along reading what he had to say until I reached the point where he mentioned that all the brave warrior kings who believed even remotely in the 'One God' died a violent end. This made me sit up !!

That is why I threw the question on this forum....I do have an explanation on why this happened, a rough theory that I am forming. I just wanted to cement the theory with any material from here.

[harwinder84]

If we accept that Nothing can be created on it own, so there has to a Creator for the Creation, then if we

apply the same logic to Creator and then the question arries 'WHO CREATED THE CREATOR ???'

:wub: @

the answer is sai-bhang

self-created.... :wub:

[sher_panjabi]

Just to clarify - Sai-BhuN means "Self-existent" or "Self-illuminated."

God is "NOT CREATED". God is forever here.

When Gurbaani mentions that God created Himself it, the translation should read that God created His "SARGUN SAROOP".

Nirgun = Invisible, Formless, Unmanifested

Sargun = Visible, Manifest, Form (i.e. creation)

Nirgun has always been here. Science says that energy has never been created and is forever existent but only "Changes form" - so why can't people comprehend God being eternally existent?

Bhul Chuk Maaf.

[sgurbir]

:e: waheguru ji da khalsa

waheguru ji di fateh

there are number of refernces in variuos places about it

first

ਖੰਡਾ ਪ੍ਰਿਥਮੈ ਸਾਜ ਕੈ ਜਿਨ ਸਭ ਸੈਸਾਰੁ ਉਪਾਇਆ॥

ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਬਿਸਨ ਮਹੇਸ ਸਾਜਿ ਕੁਦਰਤੀ ਦਾ ਖੇਲੁ ਰਚਾਇ ਬਣਾਇਆ ॥

its self explanatory

it says

akal purukh creatred khanda first in the universe

then he creatred bhrma vishnu , mahesh to take care of it .

even in japji saheb it says

eka maayi jugat veyai tin chelhe parwaan

ek sansaari ek bhandari ik laye dewan

jo tis phai so chaleve jiv huve furmaan

it means

akal purukh has created three students to take care of the universe

ik sansaari (BHARMA) , ik bhandari ( VISHNU) , ik laye deewan ( SHIVA)

whatosever akal purukh like he does that ,makes a rule about it .

keI koit KwxI Aru KMf ]

Many millions are the fields of creation and the galaxies.

ka-ee kot khaanee ar khand.

keI koit Akws bRhmMf ]

Many millions are the etheric skies and the solar systems.

ka-ee kot akaas barahmand.

keI koit hoey Avqwr ]

Many millions are the divine incarnations.

ka-ee kot ho-ay avtaar.

keI jugiq kIno ibsQwr ]

In so many ways, He has unfolded Himself.

ka-ee jugat keeno bisthaar.

keI bwr psirE pwswr ]

So many times, He has expanded His expansion.

ka-ee baar pasri-o paasaar.

sdw sdw ieku eykMkwr ]

Forever and ever, He is the One, the One Universal Creator.

sadaa sadaa ik aykankaar.

i hope this ll be enough to prove your query

bhul chuk maaf

waheguru ji da khalsa

waheguru ji di fateh

GAAYIYE HAR HAR GAYIYE

MARAG CHALAT HARE HAR GAYIYE

[harwinder84]

hanji bhai sahib........thanks for correcting me......

[Raju]

>>one of my mates suggested "the matrix" lol

yes matrix seems like an approximation of the 'maya' that is life. But it is also exaggerated in certain areas order to sell the movie so it might lead to people getting a false sense of security in their knowledge.

btw the ancient world was divided into two, stretching from Sumeria (present day Iraq) through India upto ancient Bali (present Indonesia) were cultures that believed in the multiplicity of Gods and a probable supreme God.

To the west of Sumeria in the middle-east was the place where Abrahamism and strict aherence to the one-God philosophy was born.

The only close approximation of the 'One-God' theory in hinduism lies in the concept of 'Brahma' as a creator God. But hindus have confused that concept by citing Brahma as both creator God and husband of Sara-swati.

In Christianity Ab-Brahma (Ab=hebrew Father; Brahma=God) and his wife Sara are not God but just a prophet.

I think the Brahmins coming under the influence of Vaishnavism have pulled wool over the eyes of people by calling the creator God as Brahma and then marrying him off to Sara or Saraswati at the same time !

While Hindus call Brahma as a God, but at same time there are no temples in India dedicated to Brahma. Whereas there are tons in worship of Shiv or Vishnu ! I guess one temple in Pushkar and one in South India are the only ones dedicated to Brahma which is as good as none.

[Guest PRITAM SINGH KHALSA]

Hi Peeps,

What do you guys say about the the creation/Origin of the Universe?

Who may have created it?

How it may have been created?

How it came to existence?

What was BEFORE the 'Origin of Universe'?

When will be AFTER the 'End of Universe'?

Is there only One Universe?

What Existed before the Existence Existed? (sounds weird)

What the hell is going on?????????

Love

Brian Singh

You mean you never actually thought about it as a Sikh or are you a Sikh?

[palamrinder]

>>God asks for sacrifice when one states that he is above normal people. Sacrificing for ones belief is the ultimate

This is what I too used to believe stronly.... my knowledge about the Sikh gurus isn't exemplary but I think Guru Gobind Singh w/two sons and Guru Tegh Bahadur died fighting. Correct me if I am wrong and bear with me if innacurate. I didn't know if anyone else died fighting so I put it in plural.

Coming to the Abrahamic religions most of the prophets died violently, with the most violent death being that of Jesus. Being a Christian I used to take great courage from this fact that Jesus died violently and somewhere in my heart, till now I determined myself that as a nation Christians would henceforth crush the head and rip the heart out of those who cast an evil eye against us as had happened with the Phariseans (jewish clergy during times of Jesus) who tricked/betrayed Jesus.

Recently I read a South African shaman by the name of Credo Mutwa, I was humming along reading what he had to say until I reached the point where he mentioned that all the brave warrior kings who believed even remotely in the 'One God' died a violent end. This made me sit up !!

That is why I threw the question on this forum....I do have an explanation on why this happened, a rough theory that I am forming. I just wanted to cement the theory with any material from here.

Veerji I personally believe the prophets were not here to just lead a common man's lifestyle. They came with a message and their EVERY ACTION delivered a message. Their violent deaths were not because God could not protect them, but because it was meant to be like that and give a strong message of sacrifice. Do you think these prophets suffered pain for their violent death. NO! It hardly mattered tot hem how they leave out of this wordly body, as their soul was one with GOD. So the notion of rejection ONE GOD principle based on violent deaths of prophets seems absurd to me. Just like we believe God is omnipresent and dwells in every being. Then why does a tiger kill a deer and eat it? Its just a play being played for long time and will so in time to come. MoolMantra gives a clear picture of GOD and bani tells plenty about HIM and HIS creation.

Again we should be stressin on How can we be one with HIM instead of finding When and how GOD was created and when HE created universe. Scientists are doing a good job of it and let them do it.

Just my 2 cents.

[Raju]

yes, Palamrinder I realize what you are saying. I am hearing that since childhood when various priests and other clergy have said that Jesus died on the cross because he was put through a *higher-test* and was held on a *higher-standard* than the rest of the population. And that he had to sacrifice himself to purge the world of its sins. And that he died in a bloody way because of his love of God and that he wanted his soul to be one with God etc.

then on the other hand are the Indus Valley/Sumerian Gods who never asked for any human sacrifice ! In fact they used their knowledge to help humans out of their daily struggle. For eg Ayurveda (or the science of life) was a medicine system taught by these IV/Sumerian Gods to the people for their better health. Those Gods were actually providers and did not demean human life through sacrifice. I myself opt for Ayurvedic treatment wherever possible and it gives me a lot of comfort.

Then again in the Abrahamic religions there is a great plague of customs like circumcision, now tell me...if God created human then why would he ask him to chop down bits & pieces of his body parts ?? What sort of God is that, because if he created Man in his image then obviously that man would be complete in all ways and wouldn't need any chopping or adding.

Then this God asks his followers to sacrifice animals and birds and whatever you can lay your hands upon, now tell me would a 'Creator God' ask his followers to being sacrificing all that he has created simultaneous with his creation. I mean he is creating on one side, and there his followers are exterminating his creations as fast as possible.

Muslim countries have least amount of flaura and fauna. They allow no plant or animal life to thrive other than themselves. Such is the narrow-mindedness.

And then again what sort of a God is this who thrives on difference between people. He calls the Children of Israel as his chosen ones and the Children of Ishmael (Muslims) as the troublesome ones and says that 'his hand shall always be against his brother' ! He asks Muhammad to take the sword in his hand and convert all people forcibly through the sword.

I think this God is a very violent God.