Double Standards In Sikhi

[Pakandi baba]

Your heart needs to be Shud, your mind pure in thought. Your love for humainty true. And your mind absorbing the Bani od Nirankaar. This makes a Sikh, and the Kesh/Dhari then makes you complete as will taking Amrit.

[swordsedge]

Let's not get into personal attacks and mind our language please.

In Punjab, just like other places many Sikhs are still influenced by Punjabi culture and doing things contrary to Sikhi. Many Western Sikhs following Sikhi have better followed the notion of Equality and we should look to the good example set and follow it. Regarding Castes - brother Gurbani teaches not to take pride in our castes and to reject them. Bhagat Ravi Das was of cobbler descent, Bhagat Dhanna was a Farmer. Bhagat Kabir was born into the Weaver caste. Bhagat Pipa was born a King. Bhagat Fareed was born a Muslim. Yet all through true prayer and improving their Jeevan embraced Waheguru. So much so that they contributed to the beauty of Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Brother, the double standards are not in Sikhi but Punjabi culture. In Punjab it was part of culture to throw the wife on her deceased husband's funeral pyre was it not?

Guru Sahib spoke out against this.

Now in Punjab, it is part of culture that families are killing female babies in the womb. Female infanticide was common during Guru Sahib's time too and they spoke against this. This is all against Sikhi. Sri Guru Granth Sahib tells us:

"We are born of woman, we are conceived in the womb of woman, we are engaged and married to woman. We make friendship with woman and the lineage continued because of woman. When one woman dies, we take another one, we are bound with the world through woman. Why should we talk ill of her, who gives birth to kings? The woman is born from woman; there is none without her. Only the One True Lord is without woman" (Guru Nanak Dev, // Asa, pg. 473)

Marriage is an equal partnership of love and sharing between husband and wife.

"They are not said to be husband and wife, who merely sit together. Rather they alone are called husband and wife, who have one soul in two bodies." (Guru Amar Das, Pauri, pg. 788)

Women have an equal right to participate in the congregation.

"Come my sisters and dear comrades! Clasp me in thine embrace. Meeting together, let us tell the tales of our Omnipotent Spouse (God). In the True Lord are all merits, in us all demerits." (Guru Nanak Dev, Sri Rag, pg. 17)

God is the husband and we are all his brides.

"The spouse is but One and all others are His brides. The false bride assumes many religious garbs. When the Lord stops her going into another's home, then is she summoned into her Lord's mansion without any let and hindrance. She is adorned with the Name and is dear to her True Lord. She alone is the true bride and the Lord lends her His support." (Guru Nanak Dev, Ramkali, pg. 933)

God is our Mother as well as our Father.

"Thou O Lord, art my Father and Thou my Mother. Thou art the Giver of peace to my soul and very life." (Guru Arjan Dev, Bhairo, pg. 1144)

Faithfulness to ones spouse is stressed.

It is part of culture to have extra-marital affairs, this too is condemned in Sikhi

"The blind-man abandons the wife of his home, and has an affair with another's woman. He is like the parrot, who is pleased to see the simbal tree, but at last dies clinging to it." (Bhagat Nam Dev, Bhairo, pg. 1165)

The rape and brutalities committed against women by the Mughal invader Babar is condemned.

"Modesty and righteousness both have vanished and falsehood moves about as the leader, O Lalo. The function of the Qazis and the Brahmins is over and the Satan now reads the marriage rites (rape). The Muslim women read the Quran and in suffering call upon God, O Lalo. The Hindu women of high cast and others of low caste, may also be put in the same account, O Lalo." (Guru Nanak Dev, Tilang, pg. 722)

The practice of women burning themselves on their husband's funeral pyre (sati) in Punjabi culture is condemned.

"They cannot be called satis, who burn themselves with their dead husbands. They can only be called satis, if they bear the shock of separation. They may also be known as satis, who live with character and contentment and always show veneration to their husbands by remembering them." (Guru Amar Das, // Suhi, pg. 787)

The ritual of dowry so prevalent in Punjabi culture is condemned.

"Any other dowry, which the perverse place for show, that is false pride and worthless gilding. O' my Father! give me the Name of Lord God as a gift and dowry." (Guru Ram Das, Sri Rag, pg. 79)

Brother it is part of Punjabi culture to drink excessively, consume drugs, go around Punjab we can all see for ourselves. The question is will we let Guru ji into our hearts or this culture?

It looks like culture is winning the battle so far. No offense of course.

none taken brother. Guru Nanak told us we are in Kalyug so that is expected.

Let's look at these aspects of Punjabi culture and see what Guru ji says:

drinking excessively

http://sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?SourceID=G&pageno=554

slok mÚ 3 ]

salok ma 3 ||

Salok, Third Mehla:

mwxsu BirAw AwixAw mwxsu BirAw Awie ]

maanas bhariaa aaniaa maanas bhariaa aae ||

One person brings a full bottle, and another fills his cup.

ijqu pIqY miq dUir hoie brlu pvY ivic Awie ]

jith peethai math dhoor hoe baral pavai vich aae ||

Drinking the wine, his intelligence departs, and madness enters his mind;

Awpxw prwieAw n pCwxeI Ksmhu Dky Kwie ]

aapanaa paraaeiaa n pashhaanee khasamahu dhhakae khaae ||

he cannot distinguish between his own and others, and he is struck down by his Lord and Master.

ijqu pIqY Ksmu ivsrY drgh imlY sjwie ]

jith peethai khasam visarai dharageh milai sajaae ||

Drinking it, he forgets his Lord and Master, and he is punished in the Court of the Lord.

JUTw mdu mUil n pIceI jy kw pwir vswie ]

jhoot(h)aa madh mool n peechee jae kaa paar vasaae ||

Do not drink the false wine at all, if it is in your power.

nwnk ndrI scu mdu pweIAY siqguru imlY ijsu Awie ]

naanak nadharee sach madh paaeeai sathigur milai jis aae ||

O Nanak, the True Guru comes and meets the mortal; by His Grace, one obtains the True Wine.

sdw swihb kY rMig rhY mhlI pwvY Qwau ]1]

sadhaa saahib kai ra(n)g rehai mehalee paavai thhaao ||1||

He shall dwell forever in the Love of the Lord Master, and obtain a seat in the Mansion of His Presence. ||1||

consuming of drugs

http://sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?SourceID=G&pageno=1377

kbIr BWg mwCulI surw pwin jo jo pRwnI KWih ]

kabeer bhaa(n)g maashhulee suraa paan jo jo praanee khaa(n)hi ||

Kabeer, those mortals who consume marijuana, fish and wine

qIrQ brq nym kIey qy sBY rswqil jWih ]233]

theerathh barath naem keeeae thae sabhai rasaathal jaa(n)hi ||233||

- no matter what pilgrimages, fasts and rituals they follow, they will all go to hell. ||233||

http://sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?SourceID=G&pageno=721

Bau qyrw BWg KlVI myrw cIqu ]

bho thaeraa bhaa(n)g khalarree maeraa cheeth ||

The Fear of You, O Lord God, is my marijuana; my consciousness is the pouch which holds it.

mY dyvwnw BieAw AqIqu ]

mai dhaevaanaa bhaeiaa atheeth ||

I have become an intoxicated hermit.

kr kwsw drsn kI BUK ]

kar kaasaa dharasan kee bhookh ||

My hands are my begging bowl; I am so hungry for the Blessed Vision of Your Darshan.

mY dir mwgau nIqw nIq ]1]

mai dhar maago neethaa neeth ||1||

I beg at Your Door, day after day. ||1||

qau drsn kI krau smwie ]

tho dharasan kee karo samaae ||

I long for the Blessed Vision of Your Darshan.

mY dir mwgqu BIiKAw pwie ]1] rhwau ]

mai dhar maagath bheekhiaa paae ||1|| rehaao ||

I am a beggar at Your Door - please bless me with Your charity. ||1||Pause||

[davindervirk]

I dont understand one thing in sikhism they say women are equal but in practical we do not obey those rules?.

In my opinion we say one thing but do another

[B4ND4]

I dont understand one thing in sikhism they say women are equal but in practical we do not obey those rules?.

In my opinion we say one thing but do another

Who's fault is it ?

[Saahiba]

I dont understand one thing in sikhism they say women are equal but in practical we do not obey those rules?.

In my opinion we say one thing but do another

Who's fault is it ?

Gur Fatehji,

Paaji, each one of us may be at fault and the collective result is what we call double standards!

[B4ND4]

Gur Fatehji,

Paaji, each one of us may be at fault and the collective result is what we call double standards!

Agreed but its not sikhi that has double standards its us. Thats all i have been try to say all this time but people just come and blame sikhism.

[Saahiba]

Gur Fatehji,

Paaji, each one of us may be at fault and the collective result is what we call double standards!

Agreed but its not sikhi that has double standards its us. Thats all i have been try to say all this time but people just come and blame sikhism.

Thats what.. we have created a hype around us and the onlookers think it is our panth, i.e. Sikhi responsible for all that goes wrong with us or our punjabi culture..

If each of us were to amend or do away with the ostentatious tendencies and stop being hypocrites, things will automatically change for the better..and then Sikhi will not be held responsible for the change in the culture..

Bhul chuk maaf karni ji!

[Hardeep__singh]

I have read all 7 pages and I must say that most people are quite wrong about Sikhi!

Lets got right back to square one and ask ourselves, what does SIKH mean?

Sikhs means a person who is willing or wanting to follow the path of the Gurus, whether he or she is Sejahdhari, Keshdhari or Amritdhari, these are the 3 learning students.

Stage 1

Sehajdhari - The one who cuts his or her hair, but goes to gurughar for sikhya, S/he still is a student of the Guru, so therefore is a SIKH, but not a true SIKH as S/he is a Sehajdhari. The one acknowledges the Guru's teachings but does not adhere to them fully.

Stage 2

Keshdhari - The one who does everything what an amritdhari Gursikh does but has not been a baptized as yet, is also a person who is learning, therefore S/he is a SIKH.

Stage 3

Amritdhari - The khalsa of the Guru, the one who has learnt the basic principles, but who is still learning to perfect the life we live here, is also known as SIKH, but who is TRUE SIKH according to Guru Ram Das ji.

Let e give you an example, when we do a degree course we are all called an undergraduate and once we attain the degree we are called a graduate, same with Sikhism, we may start from being a Sehajdhari Sikh (assuming), and then learn more by becoming a Keshdhari and then at a later stage perhaps with Guru jis Kirpa we become Amritdhari, the TRUE SIKH as Guru Ram Das Ji has defined.

So to conclude to you ALL, Sikh means to learn, a student, so a student is not perfect, S/he needs guidance and therefore once they got the guidance and the correct path to follow to become a Amritdhari, only then they can say they are a TRUE SIKH of the Guru.

Note when I apply TRUE SIKH and SIKH, however even when we do take Amrit we have still alot more to learn and to perfect ourselves in what the Guru has commanded us to do daily and all time in our lives.

We are all on some stage in Sikhism, some of us choose to trim beards, keep beards etc etc, but we are at a different level of learning curve in SIkhism as SIKH, a learner aka a student.

As for Sikhi having double standards, because we are in Kalyug, and there is so much maya out there, even if there are keshdhari sikhs (one of the learning ones) they still ignore there female counterparts who do alter gods creations, not all of them but some, it really depends on the individual, you can not stereotypically suggest the Sikhism has double standards. Sikhism is all about learning and trying to learn.

I have seen may people argue about this, even the high seats in Sikhism, but they all forget one thing, what is a SIKH? They would jump in to rehatmaryadha and all sorts, but before doign so they need to take the word SIKH literally.

An example of a fellow member of the Sikhsangat is a learning SIKH:

Barjinder Singh

i m also in the same state as u r.

i have full beard and kesh . i love my religion..i have that enthusiasm. but not yet ready to take amrit. i will take amrit when i will be able to develop rehat in myself. not only reading gurbani but also understanding it. right now, i think i m not yet ready for it. but trying to be ready.

Bhul Chuk maaf karna ji!

Interesting post! :TH:

So technically speaking, you can still classify yourself as a Sikh without taking amrit. If so, then some Sikhs need to re-evaluate their knowledge of Sikhi.

Hence, me, you and others are students, the learner and we are trying to get as much Sikhya as possible, hence you asking questions on here and me asking questions on here, for us being a part of sangat, we are trying to learn. This is why SIKHISM is not really classfied as a religion, but a way of life as a student, a learner. Sikhi has been classified as a religion by the western and in modern era, but it really is a way of life.

Many people will tell you this is a SIKH or that is a definition of a SIKH, but we all forget why we come on the earth, to learn to be a student of the Guru, it can be in any form I mentioned earlier, Sehajdhari, Keshdhari or Amritdhari, however when you are baptized you become a true Sikh of the Guru, but you still learn to perfect the sikh way of living.

If we are not Sikhs, then what are we? Muslims, Hindus, Christian or what? One may ask this question. so the answer really lies in are you, me and others willing to learn about Sikhi, you coming in here and posting makes me think you are wanting to know more about Sikhi, hence to learn, just same as me and others, we all maybe in different stages of learning cycle (Sikhi) but all are sikhs, the student in many forms.

Only a True Sikh is the one who is baptized, but then again my friend, Sikhi is so narrow like a thread, even when you have taken the Amrit, you can still have the 5 vices, Kam, Krodh, Lobh, Moh and hankar. If we can master and get out of the circle of the 5 vices, we have achieved salvation, then we MAY become puran brahm gyani or sant, another stage of learning, but again we still learn even at this stage.

[rammuuu]

I have noticed in a lot of Sikh families that males wear turbans while the females cut their hair, do their eyebrows, shave their legs etc.... but yet, Sikhs don't mind seeing their women doing such thing. How come it isn't an issue when a female cuts her hair, but it isn't okay for a Sikh male to do the same?

this is tooooo funnyyyyyyyyy bro.our problem is that we dont want to belive that khalsa is the truth and when a nation is slave ,they dont make their mind they let other people make it for them. sikh are the slaves of the hindu nation.our wmen and mans want to look like the bamaniyaa in boolywood film regaurd less of any reasons. bamaniyaa are us . if someone don't want to be sikh by cuting their kesh its their personal choice ,but what iam saying is that the Sikh girls are under soo much pressure by the hindu media.they are unable to see any other way.all i have to say to my sikh sister the khalsa is ture and all happiness can be only gain in feet of guru grant sahib je maharaj not in the street or night clubs.

[Guest Papi]

way to generalize