Waheguru In Human Form!

[gurmeetjodhey]

If you "know" the lord then explain to me in its entirety the grand master of the infinite illusion

kudriq kvx khw vIcwru ]

kudharath kavan kehaa veechaar ||

How can Your Creative Potency be described?

vwirAw n jwvw eyk vwr ]

vaariaa n jaavaa eaek vaar ||

I cannot even once be a sacrifice to You.

jo quDu BwvY sweI BlI kwr ]

jo thudhh bhaavai saaee bhalee kaar ||

[so i say,] Whatever pleases You is the only good done,

qU sdw slwmiq inrMkwr ]16]

thoo sadhaa salaamath nira(n)kaar ||16||

You, Eternal and Formless One! ||16||

see all the humanly questions are answered very briefly by my mittar pyara, sachche paatshah shri guru granth sahib ji. i quote "humanly" because the person asking such questions and quoting "brahmanik" things is looking very humiliated with his inner sins. i feel any anti "brahmanik" taste served at any time in this forum, had been delt with very wisely by the members itself. the caption put above all the discussions and features of this forum quotes one of the principals of sikhism

"maanas ki jaat sabhe aekey pehchanibo ||"

no offence aimed, peace

[gurmeetjodhey]

:devil: So its okay to bow to a Brahmgiyani ?

hun mae kee bollan ???

u started thread with the question : what to do if waheguroo come in human form ???

now u asking : is it okey to bow to a brahmgyani ???

brahmgyani = who knows about waheguroo, rather who knows waheguroo

waheguroo = ??? nothing in the universe

[B4ND4]

sloku ]

salok ||

Salok:

min swcw muiK swcw soie ]

man saachaa mukh saachaa soe ||

The True One is on his mind, and the True One is upon his lips.

Avru n pyKY eyksu ibnu koie ]

avar n paekhai eaekas bin koe ||

He sees only the One.

nwnk ieh lCx bRhm igAwnI hoie ]1]

naanak eih lashhan breham giaanee hoe ||1||

O Nanak, these are the qualities of the God-conscious being. ||1||

================================

bRhm igAwnI kY eykY rMg ]

breham giaanee kai eaekai ra(n)g ||

The God-conscious being loves the One Lord alone.

bRhm igAwnI kY bsY pRBu sMg ]

breham giaanee kai basai prabh sa(n)g ||

The God-conscious being dwells with God.

===========================================

bRhm igAwnI bRhm kw byqw ]

breham giaanee breham kaa baethaa ||

The God-conscious being knows God.

============================================

bRhm igAwnI kau Kojih mhysur ]

breham giaanee ko khojehi mehaesur ||

The God-conscious being is sought by the great god Shiva.

nwnk bRhm igAwnI Awip prmysur ]6]

naanak breham giaanee aap paramaesur ||6||

O Nanak, the God-conscious being is Himself the Supreme Lord God. ||6||

=============================================

bRhm igAwnI kw kaun jwnY Bydu ]

breham giaanee kaa koun jaanai bhaedh ||

Who can know the mystery of the God-conscious being?

bRhm igAwnI kau sdw Adysu ]

breham giaanee ko sadhaa adhaes ||

Forever bow to the God-conscious being.

==============================================

bRhm igAwnI kw AMqu n pwru ]

breham giaanee kaa a(n)th n paar ||

The God-conscious being has no end or limitation.

nwnk bRhm igAwnI kau sdw nmskwru ]7]

naanak breham giaanee ko sadhaa namasakaar ||7||

O Nanak, to the God-conscious being, bow forever in reverence. ||7||

================================================

bRhm igAwnI sB isRsit kw krqw ]

breham giaanee sabh srisatt kaa karathaa ||

The God-conscious being is the Creator of all the world.

bRhm igAwnI sd jIvY nhI mrqw ]

breham giaanee sadh jeevai nehee marathaa ||

The God-conscious being lives forever, and does not die.

bRhm igAwnI mukiq jugiq jIA kw dwqw ]

breham giaanee mukath jugath jeea kaa dhaathaa ||

The God-conscious being is the Giver of the way of liberation of the soul.

bRhm igAwnI pUrn purKu ibDwqw ]

breham giaanee pooran purakh bidhhaathaa ||

The God-conscious being is the Perfect Supreme Being, who orchestrates all.

bRhm igAwnI AnwQ kw nwQu ]

breham giaanee anaathh kaa naathh ||

The God-conscious being is the helper of the helpless.

bRhm igAwnI kw sB aUpir hwQu ]

breham giaanee kaa sabh oopar haathh ||

The God-conscious being extends his hand to all.

bRhm igAwnI kw sgl Akwru ]

breham giaanee kaa sagal akaar ||

The God-conscious being owns the entire creation.

bRhm igAwnI Awip inrMkwru ]

breham giaanee aap nira(n)kaar ||

The God-conscious being is himself the Formless Lord.

bRhm igAwnI kI soBw bRhm igAwnI bnI ]

breham giaanee kee sobhaa breham giaanee banee ||

The glory of the God-conscious being belongs to the God-conscious being alone.

nwnk bRhm igAwnI srb kw DnI ]8]8]

naanak breham giaanee sarab kaa dhhanee ||8||8||

O Nanak, the God-conscious being is the Lord of all. ||8||8||

What does the tuk in the bolds mean??

[N30S1NGH]

Basic spiritual beleive in Sikh Dharam

Sikhi beleives in God does not incaranate fully but God transcedents his attributes in his creation. For eg- Guru's had most not all attributes of Nirgun Paratama(God which we cannot see).

- Sikhi beleive in advait worship - worship only one creator, seeing that one creator in his creation (Parbhram Upasana).

- Sikhi beleive God has two forms- one form which does not change (Nirguna-orginal form) ie- God- indescrible, unreachable, limitless ,timeless etc, and second form is sarguna (the one which we can see), God transform it's attributes in sargun form. Sargun form can be considers as Guru Avtar, Nit Avtar (Sants/Saints) etc.

- Sikhi beleive only way to get to God, is via Grace of Guru from social religious perspective- grace of Satguru Nanak in Sikh Dharma, from spiritual aspect meaning of Guru can be broaden to any person who brings one from darkness into light. But that does not mean, one should not make a effort by thinking - i m going to get grace one day regardless without making any effort , that means one should defaniately make a effort to acquire grace of Guru by listening and following discourses of Guru. Eg- taking amrit is only step as like admission to school, there are many grades, many levels one has to pass before getting grace of Satguru Nanak.

[N30S1NGH]

Statement of Guru being God can be both true and false. Depending on the context of the statement I ll explain my reasonings.

This statement is true from a context that Guru indeed has maximum attributes of God and sargun face of God ..sargun and nirgun cannot be separated, they are part of each other..but it's false at the same time because even though Guru does have maximum attributes of God, no avtar can have exactly full attributes of God. Remember God does not incarnate itself fully into human form but transcedents his attributes into avtars where as Guru Avtar is consider highest of high and nit avtars are consider as saints. There is fine line difference. That difference is not there to prove that one should not take guidance from guru regarding mukhti but to know divine law that God has two forms, one form does not have any upadi(change) which is nirgun but sargun form of God have change, is because of change, sargun form comes in this world to benefit human kind to join broken souls with Akaal Purkh(God). Before this creation, only thing ever there was Nirgun God, but when Nirgun form decided to have a thought, that thought itself is a change in its non-transcedental state, that thought itself created the creation into many forms, created amount of attributes which were given to his own roop-sargun form of God in form of avtars to help his creation ,to give energy etc.

[Guest Dancing Warrior]

Statement of Guru being God can be both true and false. Depending on the context of the statement I ll explain my reasonings.

This statement is true from a context that Guru indeed has maximum attributes of God and sargun face of God ..sargun and nirgun cannot be separated, they are part of each other..but it's false at the same time because even though Guru does have maximum attributes of God, no avtar can have exactly full attributes of God. Remember God does not incarnate itself fully into human form but transcedents his attributes into avtars where as Guru Avtar is consider highest of high and nit avtars are consider as saints. There is fine line difference. That difference is not there to prove that one should not take guidance from guru regarding mukhti but to know divine law that God has two forms, one form does not have any upadi(change) which is nirgun but sargun form of God have change, is because of change, sargun form comes in this world to benefit human kind to join broken souls with Akaal Purkh(God). Before this creation, only thing ever there was Nirgun God, but when Nirgun form decided to have a thought, that thought itself is a change in its non-transcedental state, that thought itself created the creation into many forms, created amount of attributes which were given to his own roop-sargun form of God in form of avtars to help his creation ,to give energy etc.

Namstang,

In regards to what you said about the Nirgun and Sargun properties, energies, in regards to Avatars am I correct in saying when Guru Ji in Quotes Avatars it is both aspects that are being narrated?

For example Brahma, Vishnu and Mahesh are at times described as “God” therefore it is the Nirgun quality that is being analysed. On the other hand Guru ji also explains that not even the trinity can fathom Akals limits therefore it is the limits of the Sargun qualities that are being explained?

[Guest Papi]

^^ i think you are right on the dot there. but i could be in la la land again

namastang veer, thanks for the explanation :devil:

[N30S1NGH]

Statement of Guru being God can be both true and false. Depending on the context of the statement I ll explain my reasonings.

This statement is true from a context that Guru indeed has maximum attributes of God and sargun face of God ..sargun and nirgun cannot be separated, they are part of each other..but it's false at the same time because even though Guru does have maximum attributes of God, no avtar can have exactly full attributes of God. Remember God does not incarnate itself fully into human form but transcedents his attributes into avtars where as Guru Avtar is consider highest of high and nit avtars are consider as saints. There is fine line difference. That difference is not there to prove that one should not take guidance from guru regarding mukhti but to know divine law that God has two forms, one form does not have any upadi(change) which is nirgun but sargun form of God have change, is because of change, sargun form comes in this world to benefit human kind to join broken souls with Akaal Purkh(God). Before this creation, only thing ever there was Nirgun God, but when Nirgun form decided to have a thought, that thought itself is a change in its non-transcedental state, that thought itself created the creation into many forms, created amount of attributes which were given to his own roop-sargun form of God in form of avtars to help his creation ,to give energy etc.

Namstang,

In regards to what you said about the Nirgun and Sargun properties, energies, in regards to Avatars am I correct in saying when Guru Ji in Quotes Avatars it is both aspects that are being narrated?

For example Brahma, Vishnu and Mahesh are at times described as “God” therefore it is the Nirgun quality that is being analysed. On the other hand Guru ji also explains that not even the trinity can fathom Akals limits therefore it is the limits of the Sargun qualities that are being explained?

Guru Avtar is both nirgun and sargun, its part of nirgun becuase after they give up their body, they go back to their destination but its not nirgun itself because sargun came from nirgun not other way around. When there was no sargun there was Nirgun. You see there is no change(upadhi) of nirgun when nirgun transcedent into sargun, there is a change in sargun.

Bharma, Vishnu, Shiv are karak sargun devta's came from nirgun who are given specific duties just as dharam raja and they are lower than sargun karak guru avtars which are sent for benefit of human kind.

Karak Devta's are the ones who take care of bhramands(realms)- nourish, perserve, destroy the universe, multiverse, thats their duty nothing more and nothing else. They are there to keep maryada of tats, parloa(point of creating creation to destroying creation)

[Guest Papi]

namastang veer, just to add to that, i rem in a katha giani thakur singh ji mentioned that these devta's also die when nirgun waheguru decides to destroy everything. he even said that they have to give lekha to dharam raaj after they die ( they just live a LONG time in terms of human years)

[B4ND4]

Thanks for the replies Namastang bai but I have a few questions :devil: and i'll wait for you to reply.

Sikhi beleives in God does not incaranate fully but God transcedents his attributes in his creation. For eg- Guru's had most not all attributes of Nirgun Paratama(God which we cannot see).

I remember reading something along the same lines you had posted earlier. I am also very sure that you had mentioned about devi devte having attributes for eg. vishnu had 9 attributes of nirgun parmatma (i am using this as an example, i am sure if you said this about vishnu or some other devta.). I had asked a question then but i don't think you read my post. So i am asking the same questions again

1. How many attributes did Guru Nanak Dev Ji have?

2. How many attributes does nirgun parmatma have?

3. Is SGGS Nirgun or Sargun? A: Sargun .. Right??

- Sikhi beleive God has two forms- one form which does not change (Nirguna-orginal form) ie- God- indescrible, unreachable, limitless ,timeless etc, and second form is sarguna (the one which we can see), God transform it's attributes in sargun form. Sargun form can be considers as Guru Avtar, Nit Avtar (Sants/Saints) etc.

1. Is it okay to bow to the Nit Avtar (Sargun)?