Made-up sakhis.

[CFD]

I was vising the site gursikhijeevan.com and came upon a story which to me seems like a fabrication. For reasons why it seems made up please keep reading

Here is the story:

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Kee Fateh

I really like this story, because it inspires daas to learn keertan in Raag, so hopefully you can find time to read through this:

Bhai Jeeta Singh used to be a Raagi that would accompany Sant Baba Gurbachan Singh Ji. One time in Lahore, there was a Muslim Smagam for Raags. He, being a Raagi himself, was really curious what the muslim Raag smagam would be like. After, listening to some of the program he went up to the organizers and asked for their permission to get some time to do keertan because he knew shabads in Raag. The muslims started laughing at him saying “you Sikhs haven’t been blessed with Raag, go get out of here and go do what you typically do…and….listen, we, muslims, are only blessed with Raag.” Bhai Jeeta Singh got so hurt, he went all depressed to Sant Baba Gurbachan Singh and said, “Ji, today I got really embarassed.” Sant Baba Gurbachan Singh said to him, “I want you for 40 days to stay in this room, food and clothes will be provided inside, for 40 days don’t leave this room and do 125,000 paats of Raag-Mala. Only after completing, this are you to come out” Bhai Jeeta Singh did so as Baba Ji said, and then when the time came for another smagam, he went again. And again He asked them for time, surprisingly the parbandak decided to give him 2 min

utes of their smagam time. He got on stage and after touching some keys in Basant Raag, the Harmonium started to play by itself and continued playing for the rest of the shabad ! He was given only 2 minutes, however the Raag took 4 hours to complete (b/c of the rus of the keertan no one wanted him to stop him and listened in complete amazement and silence). The Muslims started saluting Bhai Jeeta Singh out loud at the smagam, and some came to him and said, that “God has blessed you people with Raag”

Sant Baba Gurbachan Singh Singh said “You were victorious today on behalf the Sikh Panth, ask for anything you want.” He said, “I do have one thing I really want, when my end comes, I want it to come while I am doing keertan.” Baba Ji said “then that’s how it will be”

The day Bhai Jeeta Singh left his body, he was sitting doing keertan in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji’s Hazoori. He was doing it so much love, he would lift his arm up affectionately, and while looking towards GuruJi he would recite “jio bhaavai thio raakh lai” and at that moment Bhai Jeeta Singh left his body.

Reference:

JapJi Sahib Viakya - Giani Takhur Singh Ji Volume 22 (near the ending)

JapJi Sahib Viakya - Giani Takhur Singh Ji Volume 23 (near the beginning)

So Gurmukho, please forgive me for my crude translation job, I would prefer you hear it in the reference I gave you, it's available on gurmatveechar.com

So bhul chuf maaf, b/c daas does make a lot of mistakes,

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Kee Fateh

The analysis as follows:

1 day = 24 hours and so 1 day = 1440 minutes

40 days = 57,600 minutes

a good pathi takes 1 min to do raag mala da paath

so to do 125,000 paaths the singh would have needed 125,000 minutes. There are only 57,600 minutes in 40 days. :T: and this is all WITHOUT the singh SLEEPING e

ven for a minute. Continous Raag mala paaths. Even if the singh did 2 paaths in a minute ... everyminute for 40 days without a break he still wouldn't have finished.

I don't want this to turn into a debate about rag mala ... debating rag mala is equivalent to :D @ .

I just thought people should be aware.

[Akaali]

hmmmm, touching story!

And good analogy CFD, yea seems kinda fishy, because I know Bhai Jeeta Singh would've read slow as well.

Now, I don't know if the sakhi is wrong, or if Baba ji actually said for Singh to do 125,000 paaths, and not less.

Please don't close this topic, as it has nothing to do with ragmaala, its just to prove the authenticity of this sakhi!

[moorakh mugadh]

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw!

vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!

in spiritual anything anything is possible if shardha is there this is the botomline we all have to belive and this shardha dosent belives in science and countings jeo we have to belive .

eg--if guru nanak sahib can show khand brahmand to mardana in a blink of an eye then this is possible.

ALL IS SHARDHA TOWARDS GURU AND GOD waheguru waheguru guru sarbat te kirpa kare.

[moorakh mugadh]

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw!

vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!

te waheguroojee ek gal hor gurmukho koi sakhe nu made up bolan to pehlaa plsss try to find the truth veerje u could have said "is this possible in the heading" instead of " Made-up sakhis" bhul chuk de kheema veerje

[Gurmatveechar]

why in the world must everybody try to apply logic to everything? do me a favour..do some research and figure out how long it would have taken Guru Nanak Dev Ji Maharaj to travel to all the places that they did if they had travelled by foot. I think you will be quite surprised. does this mean that Guru Nanak Dev ji never travelled to all these places? by your logic, yes. i guess these sakhis must be made up too then? Or maybe Guru Maharaj had a concord jet hidden in Sultanpur?

when will people understand that there is more to the world than that which we can see with our two eyes? i guess it must also be made up that Shaheed Baba Deep Singh used to do 101 Jap Ji Sahib de Paath per day? As avasta increases, speeds of doing paath increases. it is possible to do an entire Jap Ji Sahib da Paath in one breath. Nobody said that bhai jeeta singh read the paath using his tongue. if it did, then maybe there would be some substance to your completely erroneos allegation.

i know the singh who made that post on gursikhijeevan. he had no intention of trying to convince someone about Raagmala being bani. if he did, he would have posted the story on tapoban, akj or even here. However he assumed that most of the people reading the gursikhijeevan board would already believe in Raagmala, so there wouldnt be any contraversy.

and for your reading pleasure...here are a few more sakhis that must be made up since they dont fit into our concept of science and math:

-Sahib-e-kamal Sahib Sri Guru Gobind Singh ji must not have taken the heads of the 5 Piaayre and joined them back afterwards since this doesnt fit into science.

-The pieces of shaheed Baba Mani Singh ji

9;s body could not have continued to recite bani after he was cut up and made shaheed

-Sahib Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji must not have shown Dastgir Pir's son the universe within a couple of minutes

-Sahib Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji could never have stopped a rock with his bare hands so Gurudwara Sahib Panja Sahib must be a total sham

-How in the world could Shaheed Baba Deep Singh, an almost 80 year old man, fight with an over 30kg sword for many miles with his head on his left hand? cant be possible, can it?

-how in the world could Guru Maharaj stay in a river for 3 days without food or oxygen? must not be possible

i think you must get the point by now right? if not, i can provide a few more examples.

and by the way..before u go off about how bhai jeeta ji could never compare to Guru Sahibans (i agree), i am making no such comparison. i am merely pointing out the obvious flaws in your reasoning.

i appologize for my rather crude use of sarcasm in this post, but im just trying to get a point accross.

bhul chuk muaaf

[CFD]

>>>>>do some research and figure out how long it would have taken Guru Nanak Dev Ji Maharaj to travel to all the places that they did if they had travelled by foot. I think you will be quite surprised. does this mean that Guru Nanak Dev ji never travelled to all these places? by your logic, yes. i guess these sakhis must be made up too then? Or maybe Guru Maharaj had a concord jet hidden in Sultanpur?

>>>>>

Veerji guru sahib taught us how to live in this world under hukam of waheguru. As such he travelled to everywhere on foot or on ships and such things. He hardly ever used his supernatural powers ... this is the wondorous thing about Guru sahib.

He sometimes surpassed the natural human abilities by stopping boulders with his hand and stuff but that was for his own reasons and most likely to make a point.

If guru sahib wanted he could have finished off all the mughals in the blink of an eye...but he chose to rather get the sahib zaaday shaheed ... they didn't use supernatural powers not did they encourage their sikhs to use them. I am ofcourse not saying bhai jeeta ji used supernatural powers... i am just responding to your thoughts.

>>>>

when will people understand that there is more to the world than that which we can see with our two eyes? i guess it must also be made up that Shaheed Baba Deep Singh used to do 101 Jap Ji Sahib de Paath per day? As avasta increases, speeds of doing paath increases. it is possible to do an entire Jap Ji Sahib da Paath in one breath. Nobody said that bhai jeeta singh read the paath using his tongue. if it did, then maybe there would be some substance to your completely erroneos allegation.

>>>>

I definitely

belive that their is more to the world then meets the two eyes.

I also had no intention of making this into a rag mala debate and if you read my post i don't attack rag mala.

[Gupt daasan daas]

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

gurmatveechar je made some really good points. Even if guru nanak dev je used boat, or whatever, its is not scientificaly possible to travel the distance guru je did in his lifetime. U cant explain it scientificaly.

bhul chu maf

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

[CFD]

My intention is not to show that science and religion don't get along.

My point is as follows:

If sant gurbachan singh ji did those paaths i would belive it.

But for bhai jeeta ji it seems hard to believe that he instantneously reached such an avastha that he was able to 125,000 paaths in 40 days.

If he was a brahmgynai he had all the power in the world and thus could have done whatever he wanted and wouldn't have had to go to sant gurbachan singh ji.

that is my point.

guru sahib was guru sahib and we can't compare anyone's avastha to guru sahib's. If a sakhi is about guru sahib i use bani to understand it.

Also a note to gumatveechar ji. I posed my opinions in a even tone. I would also appreciate the same gesture of respect from other people who post on the forum

I hope you understand that to question a Singh on wether he has faith in guru sahib's is insulting to the Singh and also shows arrogance and close mindedness on the part of the person who poses such questions.

You said,

>>>>

and for your reading pleasure...here are a few more sakhis that must be made up since they dont fit into our concept of science and math:

>>>>

Where are you getting this from. Because i question the validity of a sakhi about a singh i am also questioning guru sahib? I also question sakhi's which say that Singhs ate meat while they were in jungles etc...does this also mean I question guru sahib? Please don't make such radiculous and insulting assumptions. Your approach created much noise and perhaps stirred some emotions but it lacked any real substance.

>>>>

i think you mu

st get the point by now right? if not, i can provide a few more examples.

and by the way..before u go off about how bhai jeeta ji could never compare to Guru Sahibans (i agree), i am making no such comparison. i am merely pointing out the obvious flaws in your reasoning.

>>>>

I request you to articulate your point. How does questinoing the authencity of one sakhi automatically mean that I am questioning other Sakhi's about Guru's and puratan Singhs. This was a sakhi about a particular individual in a certain time and situation. Please make the connection i can't see it.

>>>>

appologize for my rather crude use of sarcasm in this post, but im just trying to get a point accross.

>>>>

Sorry missed the point. perhaps you could in a more civil tone address the issues being discussed and not distort the discussion by creating a baseless connection between me questioning 1 sakhi and me questioning guru sahib.

All i did was mention how the sakhi seemed fabricated because it seems to be quite a feat unless the person is of an avastha like sant ji's.

[CFD]

my apologies to everyone for assuming that the whole sakhi was a fabrication. It's just the details were bothering me.

once again i hope no one was offended.

[Gurmatveechar]

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

If sant gurbachan singh ji did those paaths i would belive it.

But for bhai jeeta ji it seems hard to believe that he instantneously reached such an avastha that he was able to 125,000 paaths in 40 days.

veerji/bhainji, can i ask you a question? have you ever heard the story of Chhajju from Sahib Sri Guru Harkrishan ji Maharaj's time? if you are not familiar, you can view a summary of the sakhi here. bottom line is that with Guru ji's kirpa, anybody can attain anything. who are we to judge the avastha of bhai jeeta ji? is that any of our business? thats for Guru ji to decide. Kirpa can happen in an instant.

I hope you understand that to question a Singh on wether he has faith in guru sahib's is insulting to the Singh and also shows arrogance and close mindedness on the part of the person who poses such questions.

i agree. i didnt question your faith at all. I thought that my point was obvious, but i guess it got hidden behind all the sarcasm. the point of my po

st and listing of the other sakhis was as follows. If one can start to use "logic" and "math" to decide so positively that a sakhi is fake, then why draw the line when it comes to Guru Sahib? Does the same logic fall apart? if so, then please explain the following quote from Gurbani:

gurisKw AMdir siqguru vrqY

Where are you getting this from. Because i question the validity of a sakhi about a singh i am also questioning guru sahib?

and where exactly did this come from? where did i say you were questioning Guru Sahib? i didnt even think that i implied it, but if i did i appologize. i did not mean or think that in any way

All i did was mention how the sakhi seemed fabricated because it seems to be quite a feat unless the person is of an avastha like sant ji's.

we should realize that we cant walk around judging people's avasta. The guy living in your basement who keeps to himself could be a braham giani for all you know. some people keep it gupt. sometimes Guru ji does some kautic just for the sake of other people. this comes up hundreds of times in Gur Ethaas. Not all things go by face value as i stated before.

finally, if your feelings were hurt i appologize. im a sarcastic person by nature and i thought from the post it was obvious that i was being sarcastic, but perhaps not. I wanted to clear some stuff up, but i dont think that i'll be replying f

urther to this thread

bhul chuk muaaf

daas