Bahadur Singh Reverts To Shi'a Islam, My Reasons

[Mehtab Singh]

I am wondering if he will have to...ummm...you know what I mean...that thing they do when baby boys are born...umm...you know...its called...ummm...yeah you got what I meant...

[OhTwadi]

agar na hotey guru gobind singh, to sunnat hoti sabh ki

PS. thats all i remember of that little poem

[Mehtab Singh]

Na Kahu Ab ki

Na Kahu Tab Ki

Agar Na Hote Guru Gobind Singh

To Sunnat hoti Sab Ki

~ Baba Bulle Shah

I don't speak of the present or past, but I do say that if Guru Gobind Singh wasn't there, everyone (in India) would be you know what I mean (converted to Islam).

[Mehtab Singh]

Portion from today's Hukamnama...

http://www.sikhitothemax.com/Page.asp?Sour...&PageNo=855

koeI inMdku hovY siqgurU kw iPir srix gur AwvY ]

koee ni(n)dhak hovai sathiguroo kaa fir saran gur aavai ||

If someone slanders the True Guru, and then comes seeking the Guru's Protection,

ipCly gunh siqguru bKis ley sqsMgiq nwil rlwvY ]

pishhalae guneh sathigur bakhas leae sathasa(n)gath naal ralaavai ||

the True Guru forgives him for his past sins, and unites him with the Saints' Congregation.

AND

eyh vifAweI siqgur inrvYr ivic ijqu imilAY iqsnw BuK auqrY hir sWiq qV AwvY ]

eaeh vaddiaaee sathigur niravair vich jith miliai thisanaa bhukh outharai har saa(n)th tharr aavai ||

Such is the glorious greatness of the True Guru, who has no vengeance; meeting with Him, thirst and hunger are quenched, and instantly, one attains celestial peace.

[Prem]

Is this Bahadur Singh a Portuguese guy who became a Sikh years ago? I think I met him once and spoke to him.

It's quite interesting how he takes a socio-historical perspective on deconstruction of Sikh belief and history regarding Guru Nanak. I'd love to see him perform a similar methodology on the prophet Muhammad and the entire Jewish-Christian-Pagan-Zoroastrian heresy that is Islam, and the political construction that is shia Islam and the reality of Ali and all following practises and beliefs. Would be interesting to see the response he gets from Muslims to that kind of analysis. How do you think they would take it?

[Mehtab Singh]

Yes same guy.

I'd love to see him perform a similar methodology on the prophet Muhammad and the entire Jewish-Christian-Pagan-Zoroastrian heresy that is Islam, and the political construction that is shia Islam and the reality of Ali and all following practises and beliefs. Would be interesting to see the response he gets from Muslims to that kind of analysis. How do you think they would take it?

I highly doubt he would. Muslims wouldn't tolerate it a single bit. Its only some of our so-called broadminded "Sikhs" who accept any junk from self-acclaimed scholars. A Muslim, no matter how uneducated on Islam would never hear a word against Hazrat Muhammad Sahib. Why do you think this dude has the cheek to announce that he has "reverted" to Shia Islam? Would he do the same when he "reverts" back to some other faith in a few years? What would the Shias do to him then? LOL

[Prem]

If he reads this, Bahadur I'm sorry you had problems in your personal life. I understand you are like a butterfly on a spiritual quest. I really hope you find peace.

I also hope you apply the same rigorous theological deconstructionist approach to Islam that you did to Sikhi. At the very least debates like the one you initiated keeps Sikhs sharp and on their toes to repudiate hostile interrogation and so you do a service to Sikhs so that they don't become intellectually lazy. But I cannot see as conducive an atmosphere in the House of Islam to that kind of approach, especially regarding the incredible sectarian, political and cult like aspect of Shia Islam. And remember, apostasy is proscribed in Islam and declared to be punishable by death. Which is just something I can never get my head around, how a man as sensitive and attuned to love and forgiveness as you could subscribe to such a cruel and unforgiving dogma.

[Prem]

Mehtab Singh, if you know Bahadur, please invite him to contribute to this discussion.

Sikhi, not being a prosletysing religion, has one big fault --- it does not know how to accept or deal with and welcome those who choose to come into the faith in a spiritual quest of their own. In that respect it's like Judaism, another faith that does not seek to convert. Someone born outside the religion who enters into it, will often feel neglected, because Sikhs don't have the tools to welcome them in the way that Christianity or Islam, two evangelical religions do.

But this is also a strength of Sikhi --- it genuinely does consider and embody the belief that there are many rivers leading to one ocean. We don't have nutcases and maniacs, like the Muslims on Bahadur's thead, obsessed with converting others to their religion, a religion that quite incredibly, seeks to convert the entire world to their faith, but announces that anyone who leaves their religion should be put to death. Despite all the faults with Sikhi, the sectarianism, the narrow mindedness, the in-fighting, we do not in any way resemble this twisted form of dogma, and that is a thing of rare beauty, especially in the face of a creed that declares itself as the one true path not only to God, but of mankind. It's the consummation of intolerant.

Bahadur, I hope you find what you're looking for. If you start to interrogate the reality of the prophet Muhammad or the shia master Ali, away from Islamic hagiography (and the historical truth and reality of Muhammad is very different from the hagiography that Muslims peddle), you'll discover some disturbing truths about Islam, and should you ever find that your path takes you to another river, you'll have to deal with a bizarre religious dogma that declares you deserve to die for betraying it, yet asserts itself as the apogee of human enlightenment! Good luck.

[Prem]

Bahadur did make some points which are worth discussing, about how Sikhi has become infested with caste influences, in particular the way that 'Jattism' and 'Sikhism' somethimes becomes conflated by some Jatt chauvinists. But this s something that Sikhs recognise and try to combat at various levels.

However, to fully interrogate his new religion, I think he should consider how Islam is essentially a desert cult that represents little more than a vehicle for an ugly kind of Arab imperialism and supremacism. He could begin this investigation by reading books like 'Beyond Belief' and Islamic Imperialism' and 'The origins of the Koran'

Be truthful and honest Bahadur to your inner soul. Keep searching for the truth.

[Mehtab Singh]

No veerjee I don't know him personally, or too well even on the internet. He sometimes posts on here as shamsher though, and is free to respond.