Hindutva: The Web Of Fascism In India

[Muzumdar]

Mehtab

Your words have easily given out your feeling of insecurity and inability to back up your claims.

I haven't made any claims. I have just presented you with arguments and evidence. Something that you have failed to do.

The fact that you are defensive suggests that deep down you also have a subtle realization that you are trying to justify something that you know isn't right, yet your ego is getting in the way of you admitting where you are wrong.

Enough with the pop psychology. I am completely secure and completely correct. I am just worried about the people leaving Sikhi in droves; because people like you are presenting it as an exclusive, rather than inclusive, club.

Also, what exactly so you think I am 'wrong' about?

You call me brainless yet come up with such a retarded example. Bravo!

All you can do is insult, rather than offer a constructive critique of my argument. It does not surprise me; you are clearly incapable of logical thinking.

Does your brain have the potential and/or capacity to comprehend what Gurujee was cool with? Really? If that was the case, you wouldn't be posting on this forum and arguing against a maryada started by Gurujee Himself.

So are you denying that Guru Gobind Singh said that bhai Kannaya was a true Sikh? Interesting. FYI, Dashmesh Pittah didn't write the current Maryada - a few elite Sikhs who were servants of the British Empire wrote it.

Why would Gurujee start the Amrit ceremony if it wasn't important?

I didn't say it wasn't important. Creating a straw man again hey? All I said was that a person can still be referred to as a 'Sikh' without having taken Amrit (if we go by the logic of Guru Gobind Singh, who referred to Bhai Kannaya - a Sahajdhari - as a Sikh of the guru).

[rammuuu]

well look wat they done know

http://bantherss.blogspot.com/

Hindu terorists level Catholic parish to the ground

New Dehli, Dec 12, 2007 / 05:46 pm The news agency Fides is reporting that 150 Hindu extremists linked to rss (Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh) have leveled the Church of Divine Mercy to the ground before its construction could be finished.

On December 5 at about 7am a armed gang of about 150 extremists took over the buildingsite and forced the workers to leave the premises and then began to destroy the building and the machinery for construction.

Eyewitnesses told Fides that the mob shouted anti-Christian slogans and said they would "not tolerate Christian proselytizing” and the "the crish cant save now". When they had finished their destruction they warned the builders that if work started again, they would be killed with their intire famalies.

The Catholic community has responded with shock and sadness to the unprovoked attack. The assault was carried out because the growing hate being spread by the hindi terorists. The complex was to include rooms for pastoral and charitable activities.

A recent report presented to Indian authorities found no less than 464 cases of violence against Christians or Christian property have been reported in the past 20 months. This is due to growing religious extremism in india as whole the states of punjab,haryana,kashmir,Bihar, Karnataka and Gujarat are some of the worse efected state. Violence near the capital is not found to be a problem in the report.

[Guest amar_jkp]

Why u all hindu lovers cant accept the truth that hindus are like sweet knife. Hindus sit with u talks about how islam is this and that , then they go to sullas make jokes on sikhs.

Sarpanch veer is doing good job and we need more people like him to show real face of hindus.

I request sarpanch to organise a conference on how hindus in the past have betrayed sikhs and destroy budhism.

We need budhist - sikh federation to fight against sullas , hindus and christians.

My request to sarpanch dont trust sullas at all.

[Mehtab Singh]

I haven't made any claims. I have just presented you with arguments and evidence. Something that you have failed to do.

The only argument you gave was that you have the right to debate because you have a brain. What else have you presented?

I am completely secure and completely correct.

Don't be so sure buddy. No one is perfect. And such words smell of nothing but arrogance and egoism.

I am just worried about the people leaving Sikhi in droves; because people like you are presenting it as an exclusive, rather than inclusive, club.

Sikhi is not a club, its a brotherhood. To join any brotherhood there are certain methods. Can you become a Muslim without embracing Islam? Or a Christian without getting baptized their way? Ofcourse anyone can be a premi of Gurujee and Gurbani and be a non-Sikh. No doubt! But to become a Sikh is a different matter. You talk about evidences, well guess what Bhai Gurdas Ji says "pritham rehit yeh jaan, khanday ki pahul shakhay".

Also, what exactly so you think I am 'wrong' about?

The fact that you believe Amrit is not important is wrong. You may deny that you don't believe so, but if that was the case, we wouldn't be arguing in the 1st place.

All you can do is insult, rather than offer a constructive critique of my argument. It does not surprise me; you are clearly incapable of logical thinking.

You are the one who started the personal attacks. I even apologized to you when I was wrong. If you want to talk sense, I challenge you to talk only sense minus the personal attacks if you really want to discuss, unless you are here only to fight and argue. Either ways is acceptable to me. You give stupid examples and call someone else illogical?

So are you denying that Guru Gobind Singh said that bhai Kannaya was a true Sikh? Interesting. FYI, Dashmesh Pittah didn't write the current Maryada - a few elite Sikhs who were servants of the British Empire wrote it.

Forget that, just tell me why are you not answering my 2 questions about Amrit. Why would Gurujee start the Amrit ceremony for no reason? Why did He Himself ask for Amrit? All those who demean Amrit have never been able to answer this question. I repeat, Gurujee did love those who didn't take Amrit as well, He loved His Hindu and Muslim premis as well, who is doubting that? But don't misinterpret that fact to mean that Amrit is not important. Sikh or not, Gurujee loves everyone. But to become His Sikh, one has to take Amrit. Gurujee said that the Hukam of the Panj Pyaare would be binding even on Him, why? He has stated so much mehma of Khalsa in Sarabloh Granth, why? Can't you see the importance of Amrit right from these facts?

I didn't say it wasn't important. Creating a straw man again hey?

Please stop playing with words. I already told you if this was the case you wouldn't be arguing with me.

All I said was that a person can still be referred to as a 'Sikh' without having taken Amrit (if we go by the logic of Guru Gobind Singh, who referred to Bhai Kannaya - a Sahajdhari - as a Sikh of the guru).

From what I know, Sehajdhari is someone of a non-Sikh background and is slowly (sehje sehje) growing spiritually towards a stage when he/she takes Amrit and becomes Khalsa. I am not sure if Bhai Kanhaiyya Ji was born a non-Sikh, but his background is no reason to be used as an excuse to demean Amrit.

Rather than trying to demean the significance of Amrit (which you claim you are not), it would be best if people would admit their own personal reasons (I don't want to use the term weakness) for not taking Amrit. I am myself far from being a perfect example of an Amritdhari Singh, but I never have and never ever will demean the significance of Amrit. Its simple, if Gurujee has blessed us with something, why should we refuse it? If He has ordered us to take Amrit, who are we to refuse? People make several excuses, some do have genuine reasons, but no reason is good enough to dismiss Amrit as not important.

You may feel I am being too judgemental and fanatical, and I am least bothered about what you think of me, but I am miles away from such an attitude. I could care less if someone took Amrit or not, but what I can't stand is someone trying to cover up their own excuses by presenting an argument that Amrit is not needed. We are taught "hou sabhan ki renn ka", to be dust of everyone's feet, be they Amritdhari or not, be they Sikh or non-Sikh, so wo are we to judge anyone at all?

You want a definition of Sikh? Guess what! Its between the person and Gurujee. You or me cannot decide, we cannot judge who is a Sikh. There are loads of non-Amritdharis who are miles ahead of so-called "Amritdharis" like me, loads of "monnay" who have such a level of prem in them that several so-called "Amritdharis" like me can never earn/gather. Having said that, let me also point out that an Amritdhari is a Sikh who has made a commitment with Gurujee. If people are not willing to make commitments, thats their problem, its not the fault of Amrit. Its an entry into Sikhi. Its not the end. Sikhi is a journey, not a destination. Amrit is just the beginning, you embark upon this journey once you take Amrit. For more, you might want to read books by Bhai Sahib Bhai Randhir Singh Ji.

Bhull chukk maaf

[JustME]

went to gatka classes for the first time on Friday and we had vichar afterwards and Bha Jee shared this sakhi with us id thought id share it here: -

A Goldsmith came to the darbaar of Dhan Dhan Guru Gobind Singh Jee. He offered Guru Jee a piece of Gold as matha tekh...........Guru asked the Goldsmith, if u have a question, please feel free to ask......

the goldsmith asked................if one leads a good honest decent life and follows ur hukam..........why do we need to take amrit?..........Guru Ji says, a very good question, come back tommmorw for ur answer..............sure enough the Goldsmith comes back the next day and Guru Ji say's..............."Ah yes, i have ur answer..................oh goldsmith, how long have u been in ur occupation?"

The goldsmith replied proudly "beinga goldsmith is all i knw, my father was a goldsmith and his father and all my lineage of fathers were all goldsmiths, so i am an expert of my craft"

"Guru Ji smiled and sed.........."og goldsmith sothis peice of gold you gave to me..................can you say with 100% certainty..........that it 100% pure?"

The goldsmith hesitated, but replied..........."Guru Ji i can say with 90% certainty that the peice of gold i offered is pure but with my tools and instruments and with testing the gold, i cannot say for cetian that it is 100% pure"

Guru Ji replied.............."There is your answer, o goldsmith.............i too have created the khalsa and provided Gursikh with an inner and outer identity so they can live a pure way of life both inwardly and outwardly and no-one is left in doubt of their purity"

Bhul chck maafi as i have typed that sakhi from memory and any mistakes and errors are all mine and may Waheguru forgive this murakh.....

[Mehtab Singh]

Here is the story. Please watch it, whoever doubts Amrit:

[JustME]

calm down veer jee

tuh tah mahabarat likhni shuru kar ditti is thread vich

[Mehtab Singh]

Why u all hindu lovers cant accept the truth that hindus are like sweet knife. Hindus sit with u talks about how islam is this and that , then they go to sullas make jokes on sikhs.

Sarpanch veer is doing good job and we need more people like him to show real face of hindus.

I request sarpanch to organise a conference on how hindus in the past have betrayed sikhs and destroy budhism.

We need budhist - sikh federation to fight against sullas , hindus and christians.

My request to sarpanch dont trust sullas at all.

Chill dude! This forum has gone 180 degrees opposite to what it was 4 and a half years ago when I joined. All we did was laugh and have fun yet inspire each other into Sikhi. All I see today is strong hatred, hatred for other non-Sikh faith communities, hatred among jathas, hatred hatred and only hatred.

[Mehtab Singh]

calm down veer jee

tuh tah mahabarat likhni shuru kar ditti is thread vich

Hunn ki kariye bhainey. Jad Ramayan naal gall ni banndi fer Mahabharat aap arambh ho jaaya kardi

[JustME]

i agree...........thats why ive started re-posting in the inspirations section...........this forum is what we make it..................the crap only exists if we contribute to it.............we stop replying, the topic dies.........wel'll ingore the inspiring ones and start chatting in these............The rass of amrit can only be felt.............those who have not expereinced that yet............well.....................karam and all that and this murath will do ardass and u one day walk the path of the double edge sword.............