Guru Naanak Dev Jiz Jhorla And Stuff

[alias]

fateh ji,

i had recently come accross a web site whereby muslims are trying to convert sikhs. now this topic of discussion is formally not about this, (note i said formally!) and i jus wanted to pose a question to the panth to help me understand..

a gift from bhai Mardana ji (i think... please clarify) or by some other muslim, gave a chorla (cloathing garment) to guru nanak dev ji. on this chorla, the writing that was on this garment was in arabi or farsi or that kind of language (again clarify...). what was written was "la ila-h ilallah, madmunsoor rosool allah". this (as i studied a bit of urdu arabi and farsi to understand dasmesh's pita's bani) means ' there is no god but allah and.... ' this first half i understand why guru nanak dev ji had this as, we say " ek orr-ang-kaar " which says the same thing.

NOW.. the next bit ' there is no god but allah and.... mohamed is the prophet of allah ' the muslims say, things like ' u must read the quran and beleve in mohamed as ur prophet ' or sumthing.....

SO... why was ' madmunsoor rosool allah '; the second bit of what was written on the chorla, on there???

i have done some contemplation( ) and thort of sumthing that i got told by a paunchia hoa bandha. that.... mohammed was the messemger of god (like the hindu god and like guru naanak) but he got into maya and didnt convey the ful message... u no what the stories are about mohammed..

i.e. god has tried again and again to act through ppl but the ppl didnt doit ryt so.. this is why, " kal taaran gur naanak aya..." . so is this why madmunsoor rosool allah is written on the chorla?? (like, just to aknolage that mohamed was the prophet?)

so i need to know this as lota of ppl that i have come accross, whether it be on the net or face 2 face, mis repersent sikhi..

oh!! 1 more thing... when gru naanak dev ji went to mecca, and when they were asked to leave somthing behynd wen they were about to leave, they left their footwear behynd, was this kept in the kabbah till the guy,...... that looked after the kabbah at the time when the guru jiz footwear was left behind,.... took the foorwear and kept them in his family??

so was it kept in the kabbah at the time and...

was it passed down?? i think iv seen them so i dont reely know why i am askin this! but please answer as i jus want confermation. and it makes it a nice read...

hope ne of u wont beat me up cusa wot i sed so... pul ckuk kheema! :s ))))

[Singh132]

The Chola was presented to Guru Nanak by a Muslim admirer, certainly not Bhai Mardana. It has no significance beyond that.

The fact that there are Quranic writings on the chola is really irrelevant. If there were Quranic writings in Sri Guru Granth Sahib or any mention of Mohammed in Gurbani, it might be argued that Guru Sahib had faith in him. But there is no such mention at all.

Let me give an analogy. Today, when people of different religions come to Sri Darbar Sahib Amritsar, they are usually presented some literature on Sikhi, maybe a kirpan, a model of Sri Darbar Sahib or a picture. If someone after their death goes and finds these things among their belongings, would it make sense to suggest that they were really Sikhs ? In the same way, Guru Nanak Sahib was presented this chola by his admirers. It is no reflection of his own beliefs.

[Singhballer]

There is Guru Nanak Dev Ji's Chola which in the Village of Dera Baba Nanak in the Amritsar district. On the Chola is written part of the Koran.

[alias]

The Chola was presented to Guru Nanak by a Muslim admirer, certainly not Bhai Mardana. It has no significance beyond that.

The fact that there are Quranic writings on the chola is really irrelevant. If there were Quranic writings in Sri Guru Granth Sahib or any mention of Mohammed in Gurbani, it might be argued that Guru Sahib had faith in him. But there is no such mention at all.

Let me give an analogy. Today, when people of different religions come to Sri Darbar Sahib Amritsar, they are usually presented some literature on Sikhi, maybe a kirpan, a model of Sri Darbar Sahib or a picture. If someone after their death goes and finds these things among their belongings, would it make sense to suggest that they were really Sikhs ? In the same way, Guru Nanak Sahib was presented this chola by his admirers. It is no reflection of his own beliefs.

thanks for the post.you make a good argument i have to say. the only thing i may question is that, guru naanak dev ji may have worn the chola. now, as you did, im going to giv an analogy. would we wear a hoodie or any item of chothing that said allah hu akbar or sumthing?

your argument stays in tact if only that guru ji didnt wear the chola. would like you to debate this please.

it does also clearly state that we should not 'mun' any other scripture. (in the reheraas) so i am not saying that we shud num islam or anything if this thort comes to your mind..

[alias]

After having travelled to Madina,Guru Nanak Dev ji soon arrived in Baghdad and took up a position, along with Mardana, outside the city. Guru Nanak Dev ji shouted the call to prayer, on which the whole population became wrapt in silent astonishment – the Guru omitted the usual words Muhammad ar Rasul Allah, and substituted Arabic words of a similar sound to express his own ideas, hence the astonishment.

The pir (saint) of Baghdad, Bahlol Dana on meeting face to face with the enthusiastic stranger, inquired who he was and to what sect he belonged. The Guru greeted him with his customary ‘Sat Kartar’ and replied, “I have appeared in this age to indicate the way unto men. I reject all sects, and only know one God, whom I recognise in the earth, the heavens, and in all directions.”

Upon this the Guru began to repeat the japji. As the pir listened to his doctrines he said, “This is a very impious fakir. He is working miracles here, and informing us, contrary to the authority of our Holy Quran, that there are hundreds of nether and upper regions, and that at last men grow weary of searching for them.”

• There are nether worlds beneath nether worlds, and hundreds of thousands of heavenly worlds above.
  

• The Vedas say that you can search and search for them all, until you grow weary.
  

• The scriptures say that there are 18,000 worlds, but in reality, there is only One Universe.
  

• If you try to write an account of this, you will surely finish yourself before you finish writing it.
  

• O Nanak, call Him Great! He Himself knows Himself. ||22||
  

The pir then called upon the Guru to give a manifestation of his power. Upon this, it is said, the Guru laid his hand on the high priest’s son and showed him the upper and lower regions described in the Japji.

and-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Queen of Baghdad had no child. By the blessings of Guru Nanak, a son was born to the Queen and she offered a chola (robe) to Guru Nanak prepared by herself, having the hymns of Quaran on it. That chola is still lying in Gurdwara Chola Sahib at Dera Baba Nanak, Gurdaspur district, Punjab. From Baghdad, Guruji came back to India in 1521 A.D. via Kabul, Jalalabad, Turkey; through Khyber Pass to Peshawar and Panga Sahib (Hassan Ibdal) near Rawalpindi in West Punjab.

[TejiKaur]

yh but even if Guru jI wears it it could have been out of respect. For example last year i went to a christian school and i loved it because we talked about God freely. I was given a prize of a cross and I wore it even though I love Sikhi. I wore it out of respect nothing more. Guru Ji always taught us not to call another religion bad and to believe in the messege of one God . Allah and Ram are both used in the Guru granth sahib as well

sagal dharm mai srist dharam har kau nam jap nirmal karam

of all religions the best is to chant Gods name and do good pure deeds

[ghorandhar]

The Pirs name was Dastgir. Bhai Gurdas jee mentions this in his vara:

http://sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=5576

http://sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=5575

In the vara Guru jee pronounced that he was Akal roop and that what he was saying was a revelation, so its clear what guru jee thought.

I have the Koran, Gita and the Bible at home, some were given to me in respect my people of other beliefs and some of them I have because I wanted to do research. What would that make me in some peoples eyes? lol

Guru jee left something behind in alot of places, for example ive seen guru jees footwear at nanakcheera. I suspect guru jee did leave something behind in Meeca. Im looking in my books but I cant find anything yet.

[ghorandhar]

Major Gurmukh Singh jee (Retd.) writes the following about the gurdwara which is situation in Baghdad:

He stayed outside the city to the west of Dajala (Tigris) river, about 2 kilometers north of the Baghdad West railway station. He held discourses with the caretaker of the mausoleum of Abdul Qadir Gilani and Bahlol the wise, who were greatly impressed by his views on God and religion. After the Gurus departure, they raised a memorial in the form of a platform where the guru sat and discoursed. After sometime when a room was constructed over the platform, a stone slad with the following inscription in Turki was installed in it:

'lo! the great god hath fulfilled the wish. A new building for Baba Nanak Darvesh has been constructed. Seven holy men extended their help in the construction. Its date as reckoned comes to 927. The lucky disciple caused a new current of water from the Earth'.

The last sentence is the customary phrase to work out the date according alphabetical key. The date is 927AD. Which corresponds to 1520 AD.

This inscription was first noticed by Swami Anandacharya who mentioned it in his book snow birds. Sikhs soldiers who went to Iraq in the First World War, 1914-18, a raised a gurdwara here, but now only the room exists which is visited by Sikh and non Sikhs Punjabis who have gone to the oil rich Iraq as workmen during recent decades. However, as it is located within the graveyard, visitors are banned from staying overnight, cooking meals, holding langar and kirtan in view of the sensitivities of the majority Muslim Community. (Page 73)

Sant Singh jee maskin jee once in his khata said that when he visited the place, he found gurus jees things still kept there. These included a karahee to cook. This would make sense since bhai Gurdas jee mentions parsad being eaten when guru jee visited Dastghir. If Muslims are doing parchar that guru jee was a Muslim, I wonder what Muslims will say about the Facts represented in Major Gurmukh Singh jees book. Major Gurmukh Singh jee also notes that a report on Giani Zail Singh's visit to the shrine was written in the Indian Express 5th July 1989.

I hope this helps.

[alias]

The Pirs name was Dastgir. Bhai Gurdas jee mentions this in his vara:

http://sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=5576

http://sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=5575

In the vara Guru jee pronounced that he was Akal roop and that what he was saying was a revelation, so its clear what guru jee thought.

I have the Koran, Gita and the Bible at home, some were given to me in respect my people of other beliefs and some of them I have because I wanted to do research. What would that make me in some peoples eyes? lol

Guru jee left something behind in alot of places, for example ive seen guru jees footwear at nanakcheera. I suspect guru jee did leave something behind in Meeca. Im looking in my books but I cant find anything yet.

you are totally correct. there are alot of ways to god and oviously it mentions what it mentions in our guru granth sahib.as well as respect all other relegions.. it also mentions that if you are a muslim, be a good 1, of ur a hindu be a good hindu and so on... this is indicating that a mixing of relegions is not allowed, (i.e. conversions) as one will be questioning god if they convert, or help conversions. we dont choose our family/relegion, god does.

it also says in our guru granth sahib (and if one does their nitnem, in the reheraas so one should know that...)

' raam raheem puraan kuraan, anaek kahe, mat aek na manio' .....baed kahe hum aek na janio'

this means that all of the other vedas/kuraan/other holy scriptures , a sikh should not 'mun' them should not beleve them or 'jaan' them, know them..

i am in agreement with your reasearch, but to keep such things in your home, is not right.. this is what is written and this is what i believe. i dont understand why any sikh would keep a koran in their home.yes learn it through reasearch, but i would say, dont keep it in your home.. u know (i guess) that its a good thing to be within so many kilomeaters within guru granth sahib. so there is a thing that happens if a sikh (as i cannot speak for any other relegion) keeps a koran..

i hope u dont see this as an offensive thing! :D

pul chuk kima

[OhTwadi]

• There are nether worlds beneath nether worlds, and hundreds of thousands of heavenly worlds above.
  

• The Vedas say that you can search and search for them all, until you grow weary.
  

• The scriptures say that there are 18,000 worlds, but in reality, there is only One Universe.
  

• If you try to write an account of this, you will surely finish yourself before you finish writing it.
  

• O Nanak, call Him Great! He Himself knows Himself. ||22||
  

FYI, that translation is a bit misleading

• There are countless nether worlds beneath nether worlds, and hundreds of thousands of heavenly worlds above.
  
• People have tried searching for end in past, present and will in future at end they all gave up and will give up, vedas says the same thing -
  
• Thousands of dieties along with eighteen scriptures says there is no end, we are tired of searching because in reality, there is only One God that exist and knows.
  
• If you try to write an account of this, you will surely finish yourself before you finish writing it.
  
• O Nanak, call Him Great! He Himself knows Himself.