End Of Baba Banda Singh

[jassa]

The following is an extract from letter of John Surman and Edward Stephenson from Delhi to Robert Hedges, President and Governor of Fort William, Council in Bengal, dated 10 March 1716. John and Edward received the details of Baba Banda Singh from Mughal officials which is why he calls him “Goroo” otherwise there is no proof that Baba Ji claimed such titles for himself. He always remained a devout Sikh.

1716 in text band bahadar appeared as a guru ... the text u provided ... on what bases u claim that mughals call him guru not his followers ...

So history written 90+ years later is more authentic? Why are you quoting non-Sikh historian if you only need Sikh historians? Malcolm is wrong. He has no evidence. English historians distorted Sikh history.

its just like saying i would follow what i wish rest every thing is distorted ...

He was sent by Guru Sahib and he did his best but imperial forces were too strong for him. If you read his history you will know that when he hid in the mountains for a while, he came back and took over Sadhuara and other cities which means he lost, won and then lost. Some historians have attributed his victories to miraculous powers or special powers of arrows due to his sudden success in a short period of time but this is all false. He did establish Khalsa Raj and did kill the perpetrators but when imperial forces came in hundreds of thousands he ran out of supplies and men and eventually lost. When he was captured he was reading Gurbani. Why would the government go after him when he did not even remain a Sikh (if you are correct)? And what brought him back?

Many singhs left him and settled in amritsar sahib ... and when he was captured he was reading gurbani perfectly said and this to in written in sikh sources not any persian source ... and what brought him back when he was in charhdikalla he thought kalla is in him power is in him ... eventually as soon as 4 out of five singhs send with him from nander left him he fall in trap with mughals ... within few days he was trapped ... then he realized it was power of khalsa panth which brought him this fame ... it was not his power ... they he came back ...

government went after him becuase they need to take out the fear of his name from people ... thats why they roamed him around in cages ...

This makes no sense. Bhai Nand Singh Ji went to Lahore after leaving Anandpur Sahib. He died in 1705. Perhaps you or Bhangu can explain to me how Bhai Sahib reached Delhi and met Mata Ji after death? What was the need to call Baba Ji to Delhi when he was busy in defeating Mughal forces? It seems foolish to call Baba Ji to Delhi and leaving his mission in between. Bhangu is wrong.

bhai nand lal ji died in 1713 not 1705 and banda bhadar was captured in 1715 ... and after 1710 banda bhadar didnt faught any major battle ... what ever may be the reason for banda bahadar to be called to delhi but he refused ... i would check if this letter is available and post it by next sunday ... looking at the dates bhangu may be right ...

This is neither here nor there. He kept the fort but doesn’t prove how he established himself a Guru.

It doesnt prove that he projected himself as guru but it proves that he didnt kept guru jis bachan ... which was later fulfilled by jassa singh alluwalia who later didnt even let a single wall stand tall in sarhand ... becuase it was in mind of khalsa panth that bachans of dasmesh pita should be followed exactly

[jassa]

Then clearly you don’t know the importance of history. Bhangu is not the end of history and Sikh sources written much later do not stand against eye witness accounts and contemporary sources. Ask historians why we need such sources and how important they are. There are some account written by companions of Baba Ji but I have not found a copy yet. When I do I will post their info also. People can read life of Baba Banda Singh written by Prof. Ganda Singh. He clears all the misconceptions.

prof ganda singhs book i havent read that but it must be in our university library ... but there is also a book by RSS called banda bairagi which also claim to have eye witness sources that he wore orange etc etc i havent read that to nor i m willing ...

in golden old days sikh made history and represented it that way it was ... but today we are just polishing it ... we are interested more in a shining history then the real history ... same is with every other kaum ...

bandai khalsa even till today claim banda bahadar never died in delhi ... he locked his swas in dasam davar ... every one thought he is dead but he was not ... this is the history banda bahadars followers till today believe in ... which can be confirmed ... if people want i can invite 2 bandai sikhs on the forum ... one is saurabh from hissar and other is a girl from delhi ...

[Akaali]

Bhai Nand Lal Goya (a.k.a Bhai Nand Singh Ji) passed away only after joti jot of Dasam Pita, right?

hanjee, bhai saheb passed away a few years later..

[Bijla Singh]

1716 in text band bahadar appeared as a guru ... the text u provided ... on what bases u claim that mughals call him guru not his followers ...

He did not appear as a Guru. Muslims thought he was reincarnate of Guru Gobind Singh who wished to avenge the death of his sons. It can be confirmed from Persian sources. It doesn’t show how Baba Ji claimed himself a Guru. His hukamnamas clearly confirm what he thought of himself.

Many singhs left him and settled in amritsar sahib ... and when he was captured he was reading gurbani perfectly said and this to in written in sikh sources not any persian source ... and what brought him back when he was in charhdikalla he thought kalla is in him power is in him ... eventually as soon as 4 out of five singhs send with him from nander left him he fall in trap with mughals ... within few days he was trapped ... then he realized it was power of khalsa panth which brought him this fame ... it was not his power ... they he came back ...

And this is based on? Sikh sources? Do you have anything written during that period?

bhai nand lal ji died in 1713 not 1705 and banda bhadar was captured in 1715 ... and after 1710 banda bhadar didnt faught any major battle ... what ever may be the reason for banda bahadar to be called to delhi but he refused ... i would check if this letter is available and post it by next sunday ... looking at the dates bhangu may be right ...

According to Mahan Kosh, Bhai Sahib died in 1705 and he did go to Lahore and then Multan. Bhai Karam Singh historian has very well explained in his “Itihaasik Khoj” that Bhangu has mixed up many events which do not fit the time frame. Dates of Ibratnama are better because dates, years and days are given. If you read Baba Ji’s life you will come to know that he did win major battles after hiding in the hills. Contemporary sources would’ve mentioned had any Sikhs left him due to internal differences.

but there is also a book by RSS called banda bairagi which also claim to have eye witness sources that he wore orange etc etc i havent read that to nor i m willing ...

We all know how authentic RSS’s writings are. Karam Singh historian also wrote a book and filled it up with lies based on false assumptions. Later he admitted his mistakes but Prof. Ganda Singh is better than both and what he has written is based on reasoning rather than polishing it. His account of Baba Ji’s descendents is reliable because he personally met them, stayed at their Gurdwara and observed how they live.

Provide me with some sources written during the period of Baba Ji that back up your claims.

[Bijla Singh]

Also, your argument of why Baba Ji lost is not valid. He was sent by Guru Sahib but doesn't mean that Guru Sahib gave him the blessing of always being victorious or gave him special powers so he wouldn't be defeated. Look at it from this view point: Khalsa Panth started by Guru Sahib Himself is in such a depressing state right now. How could Panth started by Guru Sahib become so weak? And how could Buddha Dal (Guru Ki ladli Fauj) betray Panth and side with dusht Indira? These questions are not valid in the face of rationality. Baba Ji lost at the end because imperial forces were too strong and he ran out of supplies. Sikhs at Delhi testified to this. They didn't say "we lost because we had internal problems and disunity".

[Akaali]

Just wanted to say, thanks to Bhai Bijla Singh jee, for originally posting this topic.

[Bijla Singh]

The following quote written in Mirt’at-i-Waridat by Muhammad Shafi in 1734 clearly shows how Muslims viewed Baba Banda Singh an incarnate of Guru Sahib.

They sent letters to the zamindars of the territories of the Punjab and Hindustan, who belonged to his circle of believers, that Guru Gobind, while in the army of the Emperor, had died at the hands of an Afghan, but, according to his will, in a short while, he will, through the transmigration of his soul, wear the robe of honor of sovereignty, reappearing afresh as a living person.

He further goes on to say that "who (Baba Ji) has made himself similar in appearance to him (Guru Gobind Singh)". Thus, it is clear that Baba Ji's appearance was very similar to that of Guru Sahib because he wore the same bana and weapons. Also, he sacked Sarhind and killed all those who stood against Guru Sahib and His family. Muslims thought it was Guru Sahib who came and sought revenge.

Regarding Baba Ji's victory Khafi Khan in Muntakhabu'l Lubab written in 1731 says "Ordinary people of little faith attributed it to magic and sorcery practiced by that sect." This leaves no doubt that sudden success of Baba Ji in a very short period of time could not be comprehended by many people who started to believe that Baba Ji used magic and powers to achieve success. Keep in mind that Sarhind was considered invincible and no foreign invaders dared to attack it. Wazir Khan had all the wealth, modern army and weapons and protection of forts but none could stand against the Sikhs. Hence, people thought no warrior without the use of any magical powers could win over Sarhind.

Baba Ji struck coins in the name of Guru Sahib. Had he gone against Sikhi, he would've struck new coins in his name. No quarrel took place between the Sikhs while he was alive which proves that he remained a Sikh. He preached equality. Contemporary records state that many outcaste people who joined his army were appointed leaders of their respective areas and high caste people stood waiting for their orders. This was a revolutionary change in the community. He abolished zamindari system and gave more rights to farmers. Baba Ji introduced "Fateh Darshan" which is mentioned by only Khafi Khan but when Sikhs refused to accept it, Baba Ji retracted it and never enforced its use. There is no evidence that Baba Ji introduced new practices contrary to Sikhi. He preached Sikhi and brought many into the fold of Gurmat. He converted many Muslims to Sikhi as well. He was a true Sikh and it is unfortunate that Sikhs today without studying the history properly blame him for all sorts of manmat which is an insult to his name, sacrifice and glory. He lived as a Sikh and died as a Sikh. His name shines like a bright star in the history and nothing will ever change this fact.

[xHarinder_singh]

The following quote written in Mirt'at-i-Waridat by Muhammad Shafi in 1734 clearly shows how Muslims viewed Baba Banda Singh an incarnate of Guru Sahib.

They sent letters to the zamindars of the territories of the Punjab and Hindustan, who belonged to his circle of believers, that Guru Gobind, while in the army of the Emperor, had died at the hands of an Afghan, but, according to his will, in a short while, he will, through the transmigration of his soul, wear the robe of honor of sovereignty, reappearing afresh as a living person.

He further goes on to say that "who (Baba Ji) has made himself similar in appearance to him (Guru Gobind Singh)". Thus, it is clear that Baba Ji's appearance was very similar to that of Guru Sahib because he wore the same bana and weapons. Also, he sacked Sarhind and killed all those who stood against Guru Sahib and His family. Muslims thought it was Guru Sahib who came and sought revenge.

Regarding Baba Ji's victory Khafi Khan in Muntakhabu'l Lubab written in 1731 says "Ordinary people of little faith attributed it to magic and sorcery practiced by that sect." This leaves no doubt that sudden success of Baba Ji in a very short period of time could not be comprehended by many people who started to believe that Baba Ji used magic and powers to achieve success. Keep in mind that Sarhind was considered invincible and no foreign invaders dared to attack it. Wazir Khan had all the wealth, modern army and weapons and protection of forts but none could stand against the Sikhs. Hence, people thought no warrior without the use of any magical powers could win over Sarhind.

Baba Ji struck coins in the name of Guru Sahib. Had he gone against Sikhi, he would've struck new coins in his name. No quarrel took place between the Sikhs while he was alive which proves that he remained a Sikh. He preached equality. Contemporary records state that many outcaste people who joined his army were appointed leaders of their respective areas and high caste people stood waiting for their orders. This was a revolutionary change in the community. He abolished zamindari system and gave more rights to farmers. Baba Ji introduced "Fateh Darshan" which is mentioned by only Khafi Khan but when Sikhs refused to accept it, Baba Ji retracted it and never enforced its use. There is no evidence that Baba Ji introduced new practices contrary to Sikhi. He preached Sikhi and brought many into the fold of Gurmat. He converted many Muslims to Sikhi as well. He was a true Sikh and it is unfortunate that Sikhs today without studying the history properly blame him for all sorts of manmat which is an insult to his name, sacrifice and glory. He lived as a Sikh and died as a Sikh. His name shines like a bright star in the history and nothing will ever change this fact.

wwwooooooooooowwwwwwwwwwwww!!!!!!

Dhan Dhan Dhan Dhan Dhan Dhan Dhan Dhan Dhan Dhan Dhan Dhan Dhan Dhan Dhan

Dhan Dhan Dhan Dhan Dhan Dhan Dhan Dhan Dhan Dhan Dhan Dhan Dhan Dhan Dhan Dhan Dhan Dhan Dhan Dhan Dhan Dhan Dhan Dhan Dhan Dhan Dhan Dhan Dhan Dhan BABA BANDA SINGH JEE BAHADUR!

[Laadli Fauj]

hey bijla singh

i dont think i ever told u

but,

love u, man

thanks for that