Who Is A Sikh Then?

[.- Prabhjot Singh -.]

Am i allowed to say Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru ji Ki Fateh before I start? (being a non-amritdhari 'person')

Ok Sangat ji, this is a followup on a 'debate' that took place in some other thread but since that thread has abruptly been closed, my questions still remain unanswered. All I want to know from sangat is who has the right to be called a 'sikh' - Obviously an amritdhari who has taken amrit from panj pyare and has commited himself/herself to the Guru qualifies but what about others who havent? My questions:

1. What do you call someone born in a sikh family, respects the word of the Guru, does his nitnem, tries his/her best to adhere to principles of Sikhi but has not taken amrit? Can he be called a 'sikh'?

2. If not, then what IS that individual? A nobody? To me it is fairly obvious the person is religious and respects Gurujis, but what religion does he/she belong to if he/she is not allowed to call himself a sikh?

3. Is the term 'Sehajdhari' a misnomer?

Sikhiwiki says:

Who is a Sikh?

A Sikh is a person who takes his spiritual guidance only from the Sikh Gurus; who believes in and remembers the one God (Simran), commonly referred to as Waheguru, at all times; believes in the equality of all beings and selfless service to humanity (Seva); believes in the protection of the weak (Kurbani); preservation of peace; the promotion of personal qualities of Sat (Truth); Daya (Compassion); Santokh (Contenment); Nimrata (Humility); and Pyare (Love); and who at all times constantly repels the inner five evils of Kam (Lust), Krodh (Rage), Lobh (Greed), Moh (Attachment) and Ahankar (Ego).

SGGS Page 305 Full Shabad

Fourth Mehl:

One who calls himself a Sikh of the True Guru,

shall rise in the early morning hours and meditate on the Lord`s Name.

Upon arising early in the morning, he is to bathe, and cleanse himself in the pool of nectar.

Following the Instructions of the Guru, he is to chant the Name of the Lord, Har, Har.

All sins, misdeeds and negativity shall be erased.

Then, at the rising of the sun, he is to sing Gurbani;

whether sitting down or standing up, he is to meditate on the Lord`s Name.

One who meditates on my Lord, Har, Har, with every breath and every morsel of food

- that Gursikh becomes pleasing to the Guru`s Mind.

Now, I am not an expert at sikhi, but I do know this that before khalsa was established, followers of 9 ghars of Guru Nanak Dev Ji were referred to as sikhs (i may still be wrong, please correct me if I am). I also understand Guru Gobind Singh Ji, on creating Khalsa, created singhs and kaurs, thereby giving a concrete shape to the panth, and this also reduces various jathebandis n all (i think). Now, my dilemma is this - You cannot expect an individual to jump straight into taking amrit, it is a BIG BIG commitment and until one is morally, spiritually, and physically not ready, it should not be done but should work towards it. But under what name? If rest of the kaum (by one definition - Amritdhari Singhs, period. )dont even recognise them as sikhs, then how are they going to get moral support from what is normally referred to as 'Guru Roop Sangat' ? Please help with constructive critiques, as I find myself back at the crossroads again.

Fateh (?)

[Matheen]

Veer Ji, the best thing is to check for definitions from Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Dasam Granth Ji and Katha.

The following is my own humble understanding.

The word 'sikh' (with small 's') is difficult to translate into English, but means someone who has been initiated by a guru to become a follower. Usually this has some conditions so the sikh can demonstrate dedication and devotion to the path. For Sikhs of Guru Sahib, the final form of these conditions was laid out by Guru Gobind Singh Ji in 1699.

However, people who are new to path and not yet ready to dedicate everything to Guru Sahib and undergo initiation (Khande Bhattey Da Amrit) are still Sikhs but just at a different stage of development.

It is important not to get hung-up on names and labels. That is not what Guru Ji taught. Ignore those who seek to pull you down, and keep sangat of those who can help you get closer to Guru Sahib and increase your pyaar for Guru Ji. You have made the first steps, Guru Ji will guide you. When you are ready, go give your head!

It is important to note that taking Amrit is the beginning, not the end. Some people forget this and overcome by ego begin to look down on those who have not recceived this gift. All this does is push people away from Guru Ji, which is a big paap.

Calling yourself a 'Sikh of Guru Ji' is not a small thing. The avastha of a Sikh is very high. Personally, I'm not even close, even the dogs of Guru Ji's darbar are better than I am.

[Papi]

[xHarinder_singh]

According to some, only an amritdhari is a sikh. Well I am willing to accept this, but then there has to be some standard as to who can chakk amrit. I am not trying to mock the present situation, but seriously if an annoucement is made that any person who will chakk amrit will get american visa(assuming america's economy is strong like 90's), crores of people in India will become amritdhari.

Then there are people who break the amrit and chakk it again without any repentance. There was a keski wearing bibi who used to sleep with a man whom she used to call "more than real brother". When she was caught, she was secretly taken to an amrit sanchar, forgiven and now she is amritdhari again. Now is this bibi a sikh ??????

Amrit chakk means ACTIVATION OF NAAM INSIDE THE BODY. It is in the hands of Satguru jee only. Just because somebody got "forgiven" by some "punj singhs" does not mean naam also got activated again.

[Guroo Guroo Jaap]

OMG hahahahaha!!! Perfect answer!!! "ju got cup, ju got saucer, ju got cuppa tea" Ahh Waheguruuu

[.- Prabhjot Singh -.]

thank you all, that has helped, and yes, even the ggm clip I agree we shouldnt care too much about the definition, coz this is one big grey area, everyone seems to have their own opinions and what they think is a sikh. I will, with Waheguru ji's grace, continue the journey and treat this as a test than a question of 'raised eyebrows'. Thank you veero

[Menu Ke Patha]

gur siqgur kw jo isKu AKwey su Blky auiT hir nwmu iDAwvY ]

gur sathigur kaa jo sikh akhaaeae s bhalakae outh har naam dhiaavai |

One who calls himself a Sikh of the Guru, the True Guru, shall rise in the early morning hours and meditate on the Lord's Name.

...

dhan guroo ram das sahib jee maharaj

dhan sree guroo granth sahib jee maharajj

[.- Prabhjot Singh -.]

just a quick question: how long do I have to let my beard and kes grow before I take amrit. I dont cut any of them anymore but still I dont have a nice long daarha nor long kes yet, so what you guys reckon is the right time for amrit shakkna as far as the soorat is concerned?

[Menu Ke Patha]

just a quick question: how long do I have to let my beard and kes grow before I take amrit. I dont cut any of them anymore but still I dont have a nice long daarha nor long kes yet, so what you guys reckon is the right time for amrit shakkna as far as the soorat is concerned?

when u feel readyt..

when u hve the thirst..

wen u keep basic rehat

when maharaj jee does kirpa

doesnt matter how long ur kesh are...but how much love in your heart...

vaheguroojeeeeeeeee

[guptveer1469]

... nice topic brother... nice questions...

sadly, if i say something, most singhs going to attack me..

but i still going to say, there is a difference between sikhs and singhs..

if ur a singh, then ur a sikh also... but when u are a sikh, you arent nec a singh.

Sikh = Mona (hair trimmer)/Keshdhari Sikh

Singh = Amritdhari

Now people going to agree with everything except Mona. But after Guruji created the Khalsa, not all their followers became Singhs, but Guruji still called them Sikhs... Singhs was referred to as the Khalsa. But all other normal followers of Guruji, who werent Khalsa were just Sikhs.

And pjs bhaji, whenever u feel u are completely ready to take amrit take it.. but if u are worried about kesh.. wait about 2-3 months.. hope you can wait that long.. if not then take whenever ur completely sure about your faith for guru maharaj.. best of luck bhaji. may satguru shower more blessings on you !