The Point Of Charitropakhyan And Hikayat

[ekongkar]

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

Not all of the Dasam Granth was written by Guru Gobind Singh ji. It has 1428 pages and the section Charitropakhyan and Hikayat makes up 40% of the Granth. I have been told these 404 tales were added so the Khalsa fauj does not fall into TRAPS of lustful women in Islam - and keeps a moral character. The Naam in Guru Granth Sahib ji can do the same. The confusing part is Benti Chaupai written by Guru Sahib comes as the 405 Chritar - meaning it is linked to it and then comes KIRPA KARI HAM PAR JAG MATA. The JAG MATA is Akaal purakh but it says "the minister narrates the tale to the King". So my conclusion is the King wrote Benti Chaupai at the end of the narration by the minister.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

[Guest shastr]

this point of this thread........?

[ekongkar]

In reply to that the King in the 404 chritras is Patshahi dasveen. The King of Benti Chaupai is Guru Gobind Singh not the king mentioned in the tales that goes to vesva duars.

[dalsingh101]

I heard the Hikayats are Persian stories that have been basically translated to Braj and Charitro Pakyaan are indigeonous Indian stories. I read translations of some of them and they can occasionally be quite explicit. My point is that I don't think they were actually original creations of Dasmesh Pita or his kavis. They probably had them rewritten so a wider Sikh audience could access/understamd them?

There purpose? Could they have been tales made to warn the Khalsa of promiscuous women?

Presuming the translations I read were generally correct, one theme that comes through is that certian women will have strong lustful feelings towards handsome, strong and ambitious men. Even they are married. So there are many tales of women cheating on their older husbands with younger men.

There are actually 303 chitras apparently not 404 in the DG for some reason, even though the section starts by saying there will be 404.

I hope this topic doesn't turn nasty.

[singh763173]

is it possible to link to these translations please, id like to read them and understand myself.

Many thanks

WJKK WJKF

[guptveer1469]

is it possible to link to these translations please, id like to read them and understand myself.

Many thanks

WJKK WJKF

Some of the Charitars:

http://srec.gurmat.info/srecarticles/srida...itar21to23.html

http://srec.gurmat.info/srecarticles/srida...chritar102.html

http://srec.gurmat.info/srecarticles/srida...chritar111.html

http://srec.gurmat.info/srecarticles/srida...chritar185.html

http://srec.gurmat.info/srecarticles/srida...chritar245.html

http://srec.gurmat.info/srecarticles/srida...chritar325.html

http://srec.gurmat.info/srecarticles/srida...chritar402.html

Bhul Chuk Maaf,

WJK WJKF

[dalsingh101]

is it possible to link to these translations please, id like to read them and understand myself.

Many thanks

WJKK WJKF

Enjoy and learn.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/11885644/English...sam-Granth-Vol1

http://www.scribd.com/doc/11885681/English...om-Dasam-Granth

PS - You don't have to agree with the translator's opinions. I don't but I respect his effort to translate.

PS - Ignore my original post about the number of chatirs. I think I got mixed up with the number recorded in a letter said to be sent by Bhai Mani Singh about them. It is considered a forgery by many.

[guptveer1469]

That letter is forgery. In those times all words used to be written without any spaces. And that one has, thus making it highly unauthentic. Dr. Jaggi has proven this.

Dr. Rattan Singh Jaggi's arguments:

- In all the Gurmukhi prose writings of that period (e.g., the Hukamnamas of Guru Gobind Singh and Banda Singh Bahadur), words constituting a sentence were joined together, without leaving blank spaces between them. And, this method of writing continued to be followed right upto 1867 A.D., as shown by a copy of the newspaper 'Akhbar Sri Darbar Sahib' published in that year. But the words in the so-called letter of Bhai Mani Singh are not joined together, and are separated by blank spaces.

- The shape of letters and the liberal use of bindi of the Gurmukhi script in the letter are different from the writings of Bhai Mani Singh's period. This clearly shows that the so-called letter of Bhai Mani Singh is forged, and it was so done at a much later period than 1867 A.D. (for details, see Karitartav pp. 38-45)

Bhul Chuk Maaf,

WJKK WJKF

[khalsaland]

That letter is forgery. In those times all words used to be written without any spaces. And that one has, thus making it highly unauthentic. Dr. Jaggi has proven this.

Dr. Rattan Singh Jaggi never used the word 'fake' for the letter as has been forced upon his arguments by the likes of Daljit Singh, Jagjit Singh, JS Mann and many Kale Afghanis. This is also evident from the text which is quoted here. He is an academician and he made his study and gave his 'views' without jumping to any harsh conclusions.

And all the points raised by Jaggi have been academically rebutted by Dr. Harbhajan Singh, a noted historian on Sri Dasam Granth. His counter arguments can be read here

http://www.patshahi10.org/index.php?option...-&Itemid=64

P.S For those who are so keen on taking Jaggi's words as holy should read the following news.

http://www.punjabheritage.org/content/view/798/29/

"In the 26-page introduction, the author (Jaggi) has raised a question whether the hymns in Guru Granth Sahib, devoted to Guru Nanak Dev, were authored by him (the first Sikh Master) or his co-authors also made some contribution."

[guptveer1469]

For your kind information, I'm very much pro Dasam Granth, and have done bit research on all of the Banis in it, including those that were deleted by Sodhak Committee and/or Banis in other Nihang gutkas etc.

Bhul Chuk Maaf,

WJKK WJKF