Swami Paramanand Jee Maharaj In Uk!

[Inder Singh]

One should listen to Swami Jee's katha before passing any judgement on him, and ask the question to your own mind, is Swami Jee's katha joining me with Shabad Guru, Satguru Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee?

Waheguroo

As i understand swami ji is follower of vedanta. Does vedanta believe in shabad Guru? If yes please let us know what

is shabad Guru?

[Angrez]

One should listen to Swami Jee's katha before passing any judgement on him, and ask the question to your own mind, is Swami Jee's katha joining me with Shabad Guru, Satguru Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee?

Waheguroo

As i understand swami ji is follower of vedanta. Does vedanta believe in shabad Guru? If yes please let us know what

is shabad Guru?

As the previous post has said, listent to the katha and make up your own mind, dont write people off just because of who they are and the way they dress.

Let me give you an analogy, Prof. Darshan Singh Khalsa has spent all his life doing kirtan, is an ex-jathedar of Sri Akal Takth Sahib and has spent time in prison for speaking out about 1984. From this I would encourage everybody to listen to his veechar. However, I think you may agree that what his background is and the venom he spews out are poles apart.

Dont criticise without having listened or talked to the person.

[Inder Singh]

One should listen to Swami Jee's katha before passing any judgement on him, and ask the question to your own mind, is Swami Jee's katha joining me with Shabad Guru, Satguru Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee?

Waheguroo

As i understand swami ji is follower of vedanta. Does vedanta believe in shabad Guru? If yes please let us know what

is shabad Guru?

As the previous post has said, listent to the katha and make up your own mind, dont write people off just because of who they are and the way they dress.

Let me give you an analogy, Prof. Darshan Singh Khalsa has spent all his life doing kirtan, is an ex-jathedar of Sri Akal Takth Sahib and has spent time in prison for speaking out about 1984. From this I would encourage everybody to listen to his veechar. However, I think you may agree that what his background is and the venom he spews out are poles apart.

Dont criticise without having listened or talked to the person.

Did i criticize him? No not at all. If so please show me.

All i am saying is that two philosophies differ. so my question on shabad Guru is very relevant and should not be construed as criticism.

You also have to show wherein Bhindrewale supported a fascist organization RSS? Did you forget that?

[Angrez]

One should listen to Swami Jee's katha before passing any judgement on him, and ask the question to your own mind, is Swami Jee's katha joining me with Shabad Guru, Satguru Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee?

Waheguroo

As i understand swami ji is follower of vedanta. Does vedanta believe in shabad Guru? If yes please let us know what

is shabad Guru?

As the previous post has said, listent to the katha and make up your own mind, dont write people off just because of who they are and the way they dress.

Let me give you an analogy, Prof. Darshan Singh Khalsa has spent all his life doing kirtan, is an ex-jathedar of Sri Akal Takth Sahib and has spent time in prison for speaking out about 1984. From this I would encourage everybody to listen to his veechar. However, I think you may agree that what his background is and the venom he spews out are poles apart.

Dont criticise without having listened or talked to the person.

Did i criticize him? No not at all. If so please show me.

All i am saying is that two philosophies differ. so my question on shabad Guru is very relevant and should not be construed as criticism.

You also have to show wherein Bhindrewale supported a fascist organization RSS? Did you forget that?

I was being sarcastic, just the same way people who have a phobia againt the Dsaam Granth, claim anybody who believes in it must be RSS. I was trying to show how ridiculous it is to suggest that Sant Jarnail Singh had no time for people of different faiths. Sant Ji was a learned scholar and it was the spiritual upbringing which then gave the them the physical strength to take on the might of the Indian Army.

[Inder Singh]

One should listen to Swami Jee's katha before passing any judgement on him, and ask the question to your own mind, is Swami Jee's katha joining me with Shabad Guru, Satguru Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee?

Waheguroo

As i understand swami ji is follower of vedanta. Does vedanta believe in shabad Guru? If yes please let us know what

is shabad Guru?

As the previous post has said, listent to the katha and make up your own mind, dont write people off just because of who they are and the way they dress.

Let me give you an analogy, Prof. Darshan Singh Khalsa has spent all his life doing kirtan, is an ex-jathedar of Sri Akal Takth Sahib and has spent time in prison for speaking out about 1984. From this I would encourage everybody to listen to his veechar. However, I think you may agree that what his background is and the venom he spews out are poles apart.

Dont criticise without having listened or talked to the person.

Did i criticize him? No not at all. If so please show me.

All i am saying is that two philosophies differ. so my question on shabad Guru is very relevant and should not be construed as criticism.

You also have to show wherein Bhindrewale supported a fascist organization RSS? Did you forget that?

I was being sarcastic, just the same way people who have a phobia againt the Dsaam Granth, claim anybody who believes in it must be RSS. I was trying to show how ridiculous it is to suggest that Sant Jarnail Singh had no time for people of different faiths. Sant Ji was a learned scholar and it was the spiritual upbringing which then gave the them the physical strength to take on the might of the Indian Army.

Dasam granth is scripture of sikhs. RSS is anti minortiy organization of India. What has dasam granth to do with RSS. Nothing at all.

Sant bhindrewale considered RSS as a great enemy of sikhs. They are the ones who apart from congress were responsible for sending army in Golden temple in 1984.

[Bijla Singh]

Gurbani considers the atma as parmatma not a part of parmatma but as itself. The rain drop and the ocean are same subatomically speaking. Gurbani and vedant state state that all things can be split into 5 20% parts. 60% of the individual is parmatma and the 40% is maya. On realisation of parmatma and that the soul is parmatma one merges with the divine whilst still on the earth.

Atma is simply Jot of Waheguru. Waheguru put His Jot in every part of creation. Once the creation is destroyed Waheguru Himself will remain which means Atma is part of Parmatma and not Parmatma Himself. Water drop and ocean are not the same (not talking about atoms) because drop is just a drop and ocean is the source of it. Just like ray of a sun is not the sun itself. I do not know how you came up with 60% and 40%. Present Gurbani quotes to back it up. Everything is under the influence of maya and those who rise above it through Gur Shabad become one with Waheguru. My question was: does vedanta consider parmatma as a separate entity or does it state that parmatma does not exist and atma itself is parmatma? Do vedantis not consider existence of God an illusion just like a rope in darkness appears to be a snake but it is not?

One big difference in vedant is that you get alot of sadhus calling themselves brahm while gurmat states if you are to reach this padvi you still remain humbla and continue your rehit and niyams as before such as great gurmukhs such as bhai randhir singh and sant gurbachan singh ji.

I think this is really big difference. "Sohan(g)" jaap is the root of ego in my opinion. We are not Waheguru but His mere servants. His Jot is within us and we are part of His creation but we are not the creator. We are part of His tamasha. Our physical body is the proof of it.

have you seen the arths for Tu Sada Salamat Nirankar in the Garb Ganjani Teeka, Sooraj Prakash, Sant Gurbachan Singh Ji's katha/steek and ameer bhandar?

I have all my books packed so cannot get access to this literature but I do not have Garb Ganjani Teeka. I have listened to Sant Gurbachan Singh Ji's katha on this. What is the point you are trying to make? Please explain.

Those who wish to know about Vedanta can read this topic which is very informative. I highly recommend it. http://www.tapoban.org/forum/read.php?1,4508,page=1

[Khaalis]

I went to see Swami Parmanand Ji last week after having listened to many of their amazing deevnas on Gurmat. They are truely amazing - a truely humble and spiritual being.

Their teachings centre around Bairaag, Prema Bhagti, Naam, Grihisht perfection and Simran. Only an <banned word filter activated> would think that they are part of RSS - they are involved with Nirmala Babai and spend much time learning with them.

It was a real blessing to have them grace the UK.

Their is no conflict re Vedanta - they are above religious bounderies - they take the Sat essence (non-conflicting) from all and teach Hindus and Sikhs alike on Parmatmas message of Jeevan Mukti. I have seen them unreservedly doing Gurmat Parchaar (correctly) consistently naming and quoting Guru Sahiban and Sri Guru Granth Sahib to Hindu only audiences in Mandhirs.

They are the epitome of a Saadh - if you are able to, listen to their Sloak Mahalla 9 deevans.

For the fanatics, its your loss.

[Inder Singh]

I went to see Swami Parmanand Ji last week after having listened to many of their amazing deevnas on Gurmat. They are truely amazing - a truely humble and spiritual being.

Their teachings centre around Bairaag, Prema Bhagti, Naam, Grihisht perfection and Simran. Only an <banned word filter activated> would think that they are part of RSS - they are involved with Nirmala Babai and spend much time learning with them.

It was a real blessing to have them grace the UK.

Their is no conflict re Vedanta - they are above religious bounderies - they take the Sat essence (non-conflicting) from all and teach Hindus and Sikhs alike on Parmatmas message of Jeevan Mukti. I have seen them unreservedly doing Gurmat Parchaar (correctly) consistently naming and quoting Guru Sahiban and Sri Guru Granth Sahib to Hindu only audiences in Mandhirs.

They are the epitome of a Saadh - if you are able to, listen to their Sloak Mahalla 9 deevans.

For the fanatics, its your loss.

Nobody called him a RSS man. It is persons like you who are fabricating his own stories.

The question here is Do we need teachings of vedanata to realize akal purakh. If so where is it written in

Gurbani? Instead of diverting the topic in the name of RSS etc. please show us quoting from gurbani.

I am aware of a few Gursikhs who had achieved supreme bliss and they did not know a word of vedanta.

Gurbani lays stress on meditation on shabad Guru.

[Khaalis]

"Nobody called him a RSS man. It is persons like you who are fabricating his own stories."

Read Das Nimanas post below which was posted earlier in this thread. I do not fabricate stories, stop getting over excited.

"The question here is Do we need teachings of vedanata to realize akal purakh. If so where is it written in

Gurbani? Instead of diverting the topic in the name of RSS etc. please show us quoting from gurbani."

Nirmala Sants were the original academics and theoligans of 18thc and 19th Sikhi - in fact most Sant movments are rooted in Nirmalali teachings i.e. Bhinderan jathaa, Nanaksar, Hoti Mardan, Harkowal, Rara Sahib etc. Read Baba Gurbachan Singh Bhinderas reading list and listen to his and Sants (from aforementioend groups) kathaa to see how tey use 'elements' of vedanta i.e. terminology and aatmik science - to propogate and Gurmat. There are many terms and principles derived from Vedanta (not vedanta itself per s) which are used in gurbani - its common sense to learn about them and explain Gurmat using the full knowledge.

"I am aware of a few Gursikhs who had achieved supreme bliss and they did not know a word of vedanta.

Gurbani lays stress on meditation on shabad Guru."

Fair enough, no one denies, that, there is not just one route, nor are we all the same, some delve into issues deeper, in order to perform higher level parchaar for the more intellectual audience.

Anyway, as I said before - Swami Ji does not conform to Vedanta per se, they use it to enhance understanding of Gurmat in their parchaar - they place stress on Gurmantar Simran, and even teach techniques, and exlpni beautifully how simran enables someone to become a perfect Raaja - i.e. instead of becoming a King who takes and wants more (land, wealth, fame etc) simran enables one to become a true King - i.e. one who serves his subjects. Through the removal of haumai - one becomes God focused and through prema bhagti - one with God. The above metaphor is used to explain how a Sikh through simran, achieves perfection in performing all sansaari duties, be them grihisht, yudh, seva, whatever.

Its a waste of time theorising 'what he teaches', instead of wasting time here, just listen to Swami jis Gurmat Bachan, you will not be disappointed.

"This is the hidden agenda of RSS .True Sikhs should beware.

RSS tries to flatter Sikhs by praising their Gurus and martyrs and then they(RSS) distorts Sikh history according to their own agenda.These low lifes have given gone to the extent of calling and depicting Bhai Mati Das,the great Sikh martyr , as a "Hindu" with "bodi" on their books .Some have even named him Mati Das "Sharma".

When will the foolish Sikhs learn about the hidden agenda of RSS ?Whenever RSS does anything in the name of Hindu Sikh unity it is to finish Sikhism.In fact RSS does not believe in Sikhism as a seperate religion.They have finished Budhism,Jainism from India and now is it the turn of Sikhism ?

But these RSS people should learn something from the fate of Rulda Singh,Punjab's RSS chief.

If you people believe in Sant Jarnail Singh you can never follow these RSS people."

[Inder Singh]

"Nobody called him a RSS man. It is persons like you who are fabricating his own stories."

Read Das Nimanas post below which was posted earlier in this thread. I do not fabricate stories, stop getting over excited.

"The question here is Do we need teachings of vedanata to realize akal purakh. If so where is it written in

Gurbani? Instead of diverting the topic in the name of RSS etc. please show us quoting from gurbani."

Nirmala Sants were the original academics and theoligans of 18thc and 19th Sikhi - in fact most Sant movments are rooted in Nirmalali teachings i.e. Bhinderan jathaa, Nanaksar, Hoti Mardan, Harkowal, Rara Sahib etc. Read Baba Gurbachan Singh Bhinderas reading list and listen to his and Sants (from aforementioend groups) kathaa to see how tey use 'elements' of vedanta i.e. terminology and aatmik science - to propogate and Gurmat. There are many terms and principles derived from Vedanta (not vedanta itself per s) which are used in gurbani - its common sense to learn about them and explain Gurmat using the full knowledge.

"I am aware of a few Gursikhs who had achieved supreme bliss and they did not know a word of vedanta.

Gurbani lays stress on meditation on shabad Guru."

Fair enough, no one denies, that, there is not just one route, nor are we all the same, some delve into issues deeper, in order to perform higher level parchaar for the more intellectual audience.

Anyway, as I said before - Swami Ji does not conform to Vedanta per se, they use it to enhance understanding of Gurmat in their parchaar - they place stress on Gurmantar Simran, and even teach techniques, and exlpni beautifully how simran enables someone to become a perfect Raaja - i.e. instead of becoming a King who takes and wants more (land, wealth, fame etc) simran enables one to become a true King - i.e. one who serves his subjects. Through the removal of haumai - one becomes God focused and through prema bhagti - one with God. The above metaphor is used to explain how a Sikh through simran, achieves perfection in performing all sansaari duties, be them grihisht, yudh, seva, whatever.

Its a waste of time theorising 'what he teaches', instead of wasting time here, just listen to Swami jis Gurmat Bachan, you will not be disappointed.

"This is the hidden agenda of RSS .True Sikhs should beware.

RSS tries to flatter Sikhs by praising their Gurus and martyrs and then they(RSS) distorts Sikh history according to their own agenda.These low lifes have given gone to the extent of calling and depicting Bhai Mati Das,the great Sikh martyr , as a "Hindu" with "bodi" on their books .Some have even named him Mati Das "Sharma".

When will the foolish Sikhs learn about the hidden agenda of RSS ?Whenever RSS does anything in the name of Hindu Sikh unity it is to finish Sikhism.In fact RSS does not believe in Sikhism as a seperate religion.They have finished Budhism,Jainism from India and now is it the turn of Sikhism ?

But these RSS people should learn something from the fate of Rulda Singh,Punjab's RSS chief.

If you people believe in Sant Jarnail Singh you can never follow these RSS people."

I did not read das namana's post. i apologise for that overlook.

What you are telling is that he is an aid to seeker's progress. That progress is possible without any outside also.

He asks gatherings to meditate on gurmantra. Has he taken Gurmantra himself?

These are benign questions. Do not get agitated while replyoing to those.

I know about RSS. Someone tried to link RSS to bhindrewale in this thread.

I replied to that it was not correct to link a fascist organization to a sikh leave aside bhindrewale.