Amritsar

[harjit nanua]

sANGAT JI,

Why is it in the Ardhas said " Sikhaa nu sikhi daan, ....., sri amritsar ka dharsan ISHNAAN.."..?

Why the Ishnaan is given importance?

Regards

[Jag_Singh]

I remember a gursikh saying 'we shouldn't say 'Dharshan' before saying ishnaan. It's getting too picky, as long as you say your ardaas with sharda and pyaar then it good.

As long as the 'Sri bagutai ji.......to.......dhan dhan Sri guru granth sahib ji' is in the traditional manor then its ok. But there may be reason's deeper which the sangat could share........

fateh

[kh@ls@]

sANGAT JI,

Why is it in the Ardhas said " Sikhaa nu sikhi daan, ....., sri amritsar ka dharsan ISHNAAN.."..?

Why the Ishnaan is given importance?

Regards

ਸੋਰਠਿ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ਘਰੁ ੩ ਦੁਪਦੇ

sorath mehala 5 ghar 3 dhupadhae

Sorat'h, Fifth Mehl, Third House, Du-Padas:

1 Sorith Guru Arjan Dev Page 860 Line 1

ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥

ik oankar sathigur prasadh ||

One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:

ਰਾਮਦਾਸ ਸਰੋਵਰਿ ਨਾਤੇ ॥

ramadhas sarovar nathae ||

Bathing in the nectar tank of Ram Das,

ਸਭਿ ਉਤਰੇ ਪਾਪ ਕਮਾਤੇ ॥

sabh outharae pap kamathae ||

all sins are erased.

ਨਿਰਮਲ ਹੋਏ ਕਰਿ ਇਸਨਾਨਾ ॥

niramal hoeae kar eisanana ||

One becomes immaculately pure, taking this cleansing bath.

ਗੁਰਿ ਪੂਰੈ ਕੀਨੇ ਦਾਨਾ ॥੧॥

gur poorai keenae dhana ||1||

The Perfect Guru has bestowed this gift. ||1||

ਸਭਿ ਕੁਸਲ ਖੇਮ ਪ੍ਰਭਿ ਧਾਰੇ ॥

sabh kusal khaem prabh dhharae ||

God has blessed all with peace and pleasure.

ਸਹੀ ਸਲਾਮਤਿ ਸਭਿ ਥੋਕ ਉਬਾਰੇ ਗੁਰ ਕਾ ਸਬਦੁ ਵੀਚਾਰੇ ॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥

sehee salamath sabh thhok oubarae gur ka sabadh veecharae || rehao ||

Everything is safe and sound, as we contemplate the Word of the Guru's Shabad. ||Pause||

ਸਾਧਸੰਗਿ ਮਲੁ ਲਾਥੀ ॥

sadhhasang mal lathhee ||

In the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy, filth is washed off.

ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਭਇਓ ਸਾਥੀ ॥

parabreham bhaeiou sathhee ||

The Supreme Lord God has become our friend and helper.

ਨਾਨਕ ਨਾਮੁ ਧਿਆਇਆ ॥

naanak nam dhhiaeia ||

Nanak meditates on the Naam, the Name of the Lord.

ਆਦਿ ਪੁਰਖ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਪਾਇਆ ॥੨॥੧॥੬੫॥

adh purakh prabh paeia ||2||1||65||

ਸੋਰਠਿ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥

sorath mehala 5 ||

Sorat'h, Fifth Mehl:

ਵਿਚਿ ਕਰਤਾ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਖਲੋਆ ॥

vich karatha purakh khaloa ||

The Creator Lord Himself stood between us,

ਵਾਲੁ ਨ ਵਿੰਗਾ ਹੋਆ ॥

val n vinga hoa ||

and not a hair upon my head was touched.

ਮਜਨੁ ਗੁਰ ਆਂਦਾ ਰਾਸੇ ॥

majan gur aandha rasae ||

The Guru made my cleansing bath successful;

ਜਪਿ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਕਿਲਵਿਖ ਨਾਸੇ ॥੧॥

jap har har kilavikh nasae ||1||

meditating on the Lord, Har, Har, my sins were erased. ||1||

ਸੰਤਹੁ ਰਾਮਦਾਸ ਸਰੋਵਰੁ ਨੀਕਾ ॥

santhahu ramadhas sarovar neeka ||

O Saints, the purifying pool of Ram Das is sublime.

ਜੋ ਨਾਵੈ ਸੋ ਕੁਲੁ ਤਰਾਵੈ ਉਧਾਰੁ ਹੋਆ ਹੈ ਜੀ ਕਾ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥

jo navai so kul tharavai oudhhar hoa hai jee ka ||1|| rehao ||

Whoever bathes in it, his family and ancestry are saved, and his soul is saved as well. ||1||Pause||

ਜੈ ਜੈ ਕਾਰੁ ਜਗੁ ਗਾਵੈ ॥

jai jai kar jag gavai ||

The world sings cheers of victory,

ਮਨ ਚਿੰਦਿਅੜੇ ਫਲ ਪਾਵੈ ॥

man chindhiarrae fal pavai ||

and the fruits of his mind's desires are obtained.

ਸਹੀ ਸਲਾਮਤਿ ਨਾਇ ਆਏ ॥ ਅਪਣਾ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਧਿਆਏ ॥੨॥

sehee salamath nae aeae || apana prabhoo dhhiaeae ||2||

Whoever comes and bathes here, and meditates on his God, is safe and sound. ||2||

ਸੰਤ ਸਰੋਵਰ ਨਾਵੈ ॥

santh sarovar navai ||

One who bathes in the healing pool of the Saints,

ਸੋ ਜਨੁ ਪਰਮ ਗਤਿ ਪਾਵੈ ॥

so jan param gath pavai ||

that humble being obtains the supreme status.

ਮਰੈ ਨ ਆਵੈ ਜਾਈ ॥

marai n avai jaee ||

He does not die, or come and go in reincarnation;

ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਧਿਆਈ ॥੩॥

har har nam dhhiaee ||3||

he meditates on the Name of the Lord, Har, Har. ||3||

ਇਹੁ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਬਿਚਾਰੁ ਸੁ ਜਾਨੈ ॥

eihu breham bichar s janai ||

He alone knows this about God,

ਜਿਸੁ ਦਇਆਲੁ ਹੋਇ ਭਗਵਾਨੈ ॥

jis dhaeial hoe bhagavanai ||

whom God blesses with His kindness.

ਬਾਬਾ ਨਾਨਕ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਸਰਣਾਈ ॥

baba naanak prabh saranaee ||

Baba Nanak seeks the Sanctuary of God;

ਸਭ ਚਿੰਤਾ ਗਣਤ ਮਿਟਾਈ ॥੪॥੭॥੫੭॥

sabh chintha ganath mittaee ||4||7||57||

all his worries and anxieties are dispelled. ||4||7||57||

This is why.

[harjit nanua]

wjkk wjkf,

ਰਾਮਦਾਸ ਸਰੋਵਰਿ ਨਾਤੇ ॥

ramadhas sarovar nathae ||

Bathing in the nectar tank of Ram Das,

ਸਭਿ ਉਤਰੇ ਪਾਪ ਕਮਾਤੇ ॥

sabh outharae pap kamathae ||

all sins are erased.

ram daas here means the servant of God, right? Raam (as in god) and Das (servant), like Gobind means God, not Guru Gobind singh.Also, in sukhmanee sahid, the word raam daas comes up again (tis ka naam sat raam daas- Again, refering to the servant of God).

Sarovar here refers to amrit sarovar, Amrit meaning Banee... Naam sarovar... Since Banee hai amrit...

So the tuk means servant of God, drenches/bathes in the naam (meaning immersed in the shabd).

And all his sins are washed away...

and another....

ਮਜਨੁ ਗੁਰ ਆਂਦਾ ਰਾਸੇ ॥

majan gur aandha rasae ||

The Guru made my cleansing bath successful;

ਜਪਿ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਕਿਲਵਿਖ ਨਾਸੇ ॥੧॥

jap har har kilavikh nasae ||1||

meditating on the Lord, Har, Har, my sins were erased. ||1||

Same as the above... bething here does not mean literal bathing. Cleansing bath refers to naam/shabd bath.

In japji it's said... Moot paliti kapar hoye, de saboon leyeh oh toye.

pariye maat papa key sang, OH DHOPAI NAVAI KEY RANG...

Maat here refers to the mind, and can only be wash with the colors of shabd....

So, back to the original question... why do we believe that the dip in Harmindar sahib is going to wash away all our sins? If that would have been the case, why didnt the 6th-10th masters tell us to bathe in the sarovar and we are cleaned.?

also, if i am a sinner, egoist, and never think about the Creator, and i make a trip to the Golden temple and take a dip, am I saved?

If that is the case, it will boil down to who has the money to make a trip...

Guru ji has said many times, about Tirath... Tirath not only means Ganges or Banares, but this also includes... Evn mecca.. Its a good thing to go holy places as the thought of God will always be in mind, but God is all prevading, which means everywhere is the house of God (not only temples)...

my 2 cents worth..

regards

[kh@ls@]

I'm not going to argue with you because nothing will be gained. I actually agree your translations of the shabad are better than those used, but shabads can have more than one meaning. But that doesn't change the fact that Siri Harmandir Sahib is the holiest most awe inspiring place on earth and the amrit there makes amazing things happen. If you can't see that or don't believe it then so be it. If you don't want to have an ishnaan there then don't. Some ppl on this site might continue to argue with you until you come around to their viewpoint or the topic gets closed, i'm not one of them. So bye

VJKK VJKF

[Jag_Singh]

also, if i am a sinner, egoist, and never think about the Creator, and i make a trip to the Golden temple and take a dip, am I saved?

If that is the case, it will boil down to who has the money to make a trip...

I don't understand what you mean here.............

[KEERPA]

At one point a Bibi was married off to a crippled husband because she told her dad that God provides for her so her dad out of spite married her off to a cripple. One day when she went to beg in the city due to her low position in life with her husband , she would put her husband in a basket and carry him on her head. She left him by a pond and went to go beg and came back and some guy was standing there and she was worried that this guy kept saying he was her husband. She and the guy both went to Guru Sahib to figure out this mystery, and low and behold it was her husband. He said he saw a black crow fly into the water and fly away as a white bird like a dove and he saw this miracle and decided to crawl out of the basket and into the water and it made him able to walk agains due to his extreme faith in God. After this Guru Ram Das planned the digging of the sarovar Sahib and people called it Ramdas Sarovar in the city of Ramdaspur and eventually it was called "the pool of Nectar" or Anmritsar.

If you have faith in God and Guru then a mere dip can give you spiritual strength.

During the tough times of the Khalsa when Harmandir Sahib was hijacked by moghuls and/or corruption, Khalsa Sahib Jis would sneak in the middle of the night dip in the water get on their horse and run off and hundreds were killed over time just to have this mere dip in the water and they risked their life just to get near the Sarovar. SO now in times of relative peace we should be thankful we can book a ticket to india and dip in the pool of Nectar without being slaughtered by moghuls because of the sacrafices of our fellow Veers they made us able to peacefully do isnaan at Harmandir Sahib. If they didnt do their daring feats of faith then even I myself wouldnt be able to be a Sikh.

Harmandir Sahib was designed to be the flower in the middle of this pool of nectar, try seeing Harmandir Sahib with a spiritual vision rather than a physical sight and youll see the major signifigance. Now a daze people question everything with agnostic critisism and then wonder why their personal Sikhi is in shambles. Now a daze people have no faith in God, Guru and Sikhi and the state of their Sikhi reflects the very additude they possess. Learn to absorb Sikhi in other ways other than reading and listening and youll understand why True Sikhs will die for their faith while others dont even live to be Sikh.

Dont think so shallow or youll think the ocean is only as deep as the waves.

[Jag_Singh]

I now understand

[K. SINGH DEEP]

I now understand

"AMRITSAR SATGUR SATWAADI

JIT NAHATE KAUAA HANS HOHE"

and

"GURSATGUR KA JO SIKH AKHAAYE,

SO BHALKE UTTHH HAR NAM DHIAVE,

UDDAM KARE BHALKE PARBHATI,

ISHNAAN KARE AMRITSAR NAAVE,

and

DITTHE SABBHE TRHHAV NAHI TUDH JEHEYA

These lines amply clear the doubts of

any body that AMRITSAR is HARMANDAR

SAHIB and also GURBANI.ISHNAAN in

both is must to understand the meaning

of ISHNAAN.WJKK WJKF

[Jag_Singh]

"AMRITSAR SATGUR SATWAADI

JIT NAHATE KAUAA HANS HOHE"

and

"GURSATGUR KA JO SIKH AKHAAYE,

SO BHALKE UTTHH HAR NAM DHIAVE,

UDDAM KARE BHALKE PARBHATI,

ISHNAAN KARE AMRITSAR NAAVE,

and

DITTHE SABBHE TRHHAV NAHI TUDH JEHEYA

These lines amply clear the doubts of

any body that AMRITSAR is HARMANDAR

SAHIB and also GURBANI.ISHNAAN in

both is must to understand the meaning

of ISHNAAN.WJKK WJKF

Interesting. Do tell the full story 'DEEP'.....elaborate.