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chatanga1 last won the day on July 12

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About chatanga1

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    Amrit Naam Nidhaan Hai

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  1. This gurdwara along with the other 300 or so are already in control of the Waqf Board. I find it incredible to beleive that Pakistan has spent Rs16.280 billion on this Gurdwara, considering that they can't even feed all their own people. This equates to £76,272,824 at todays conversion rates. £76 million??? I doubt it. No Government would spend that on a mosque nevermind a gurdwara. But two things are important to remember here for Sikhs. One, the lands of the Gurdwaras have generated huge amounts which the Waqf Board have, and have been misusing and appropriating for themselves. Why couldn't this money have been used for the renovation? Secondly, whilst there is only a handful of Sikhs there in kartarpur, they should have had the first refusal on the jobs created for management. Why are non-Sikhs being given these positions, and why aren't Sikhs pushing themselves for priority?
  2. https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=Y2nfbzJZeiYC&pg=PA667&lpg=PA667&dq=6+years+sikh+girl+kidnapped+in+pakistan&source=bl&ots=4pBOzJgpDj&sig=ACfU3U31jtMxJKfrr7jh_aPrIoZi4dR8GA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj5wqu0pK3sAhVKY8AKHamQBR84PBDoATABegQICBAC#v=onepage&q=6 years sikh girl kidnapped in pakistan&f=false
  3. That is wishful thinking. The Governor of Panjab himself got involved in the case, and in places like Pakistan, you don't say no to the Governor of a State. The Gov if he wanted could have had the whole family jailed. You know how these countries operate. Because of Zina hudood act in Pakistan, where people can go to jail if they have caught having physical relations with people they are not married to. Easier said than done. The fact is, Sikhs in Pakistan are a scared minority. They know that they have no political or physical power. They have very limited financial power and are at the whims of the majority community. The saving grace of the Sikh community, is our fractured relationship with the terrorist indian state. Because of this we are some use to the state of Pakistan. Pakistan's growing relationship with the Sikhs irks india and they know it, which is a big part of it. You think its that easy? Even in places like Peshawar, Sikhs don't keep AK's in their houses. Damn, even in Kabul Sikhs don't.
  4. EDit: seeing the link above I'm glad to see this has been resolved. It would be a good thing if the girl revealed what happened in full,m so that other families can prevent similair incidents. This girl was aggressively taken/kidnapped but again the news coming out is that she was a willing participant in the whole show. But, most importantnly, she has chosen not to return home for over a year now. Her marriage to the muslim boy is still valid, and the reality of this case is that she will end up with him, after she comes out of protective custody. She has said she doesn't want to return home. No, they can't. Under pakistani law converts cannot be left in the care of infidels and will be wards of the state if they are minors, or free to go if they are above age and declare in court that they are now muslims. This happened in the case of a 6 year old Sikh girl in Waziristan (I think) some years ago. Her muslim neighbours coerced her to recite the kalima and then declared her a muslim, and took her to a faraway place where her parents couldn't reach. Her parents went to court over it, but the court said that now she has become a muslim (at 6) pakistani law states she cannot be returned to non-muslim custody. The court said that she must remain in protective custody until she reaches 16 in which case she can make up her own mind to be muslim or sikh. This was in 2003. She hasn't come back home since. This 6 year old girl was the cousin of Jagjit Kaur, the girl in the kidnapping from Nankana Sahib. The other problem is that the Sikhs don't have the physical presence to physically take the girls back. Last year the uncle of the boy connected in this case took a mob to Janam Asthan Guru Nanak Dev and the crowd pelted stones at the gurdwara, the birthplace of Sikhi, yet the Sikhs inside were not able to muster any response. They could only lock the doors and hope that the mob didn't invade. They had to rely on the police and govt, who took action after it blew up on social media. It's not a reassuring situation at all. In the last 2 months, a 14 year old daughter of amritdhari Sikhs was kidnapped and married to a muslim boy in Sindh.
  5. https://panjiri.wordpress.com/2019/02/06/ਸੱਕ/ read above and this is the song:
  6. Hey, I'm not the one bending over for the muslamics across the border. I'm an Uncle Tom, fine. But I'm not a traitor to the Panth like you seem to be. Nor am I an ignoramus who doesn't know anything about their own Panth. Or an even bigger ignoramus who is prepared to listen to the mass murderers of Sikhs and accept their views without hesitation. I bet you are ready to sacrifice your own life for pakistan aren't you. But before you do become a pilot and destroy india, have a read of this: https://www.sikhbookclub.com/Book/The-Valiant-Fighter-Master-Tara-Singh PILOT!
  7. I don't know why. But every now and again threads like this come up and people repeat the same rubbish over and over again. And the worst thing its Sikhs saying it. What are Sikhs doing these days ? Certainly not researching history and expanding their knowledge of they keep on repeating this same vitriol agains Master Tara Singh. He never had 60 million followers. The 60 million was the number of Dalits who Ambedkar claimed to lead. Only according to one source, Sirdar Kapoor Singh, who wrote about this many decades after. Nobodu else ever claimed this. You know something. i hope that you have the heart to do your own research rather than just listen to any <banned word filter activated> and then parrot their rubbish (and that includes me!). Master Tara Singh was part of the same Singh Sabha movement that espoused the cause of the "low-castes" and as a result of this thousands of lowcastes were brought into Sikhi. You are single-handedly responsible for your own stupidity. Or ignorance. Master Tara Singh never had any say in status of Sikhs in the partition. That decision had already been made months before by Baldev Singh. Maharaja Patiala? Maharaja Patiala was a sycophant of the english and opposed the Singh Sabha SGPC from the start. He never supported the Sikhs against the british in any way, whereas Master Tara Singh stood for nothing but the Panth. And you call Master Tara Singh a ba$tard? Are you sure you aren't one yourself? YOU'VE read? I don't know what you have been reading but its complete shite. Master Tara Singh donated most of his salary from all his life to the Khalsa College. He kept back enough for himself to feed his family and not much more. There are many. You just have to read them and not get sucked into the mentality of Sikhs needing someone convenient to blame. Master Tara Singh was an easy target because of his hindu upbringing. Even pakis these days keep on harping about jinnahs promise to the Sikhs that if they joined pakistan they would have an autonomous state. These offers were only made privately and after the Rape of rawalpindi. Pakis need to push this narrative because it excuses them of the heinous murder of thousands of Sikhs in Rawalpindi in March 1947. They want to be the victims and gain our sympathy rather than the truth be known of how they were the instigators. So they say Master Tara Singh cut down the muslim league flag and other lies. But these are pakistanis. Loyal to no-one and traitors to everyone. But what is scalis excuse that he would use such derogatory words for Master Tara Singh?
  8. Hindsight is 20/20 eh? You say this now but jumped straight on the ricksha of unverified "news." Be more discerning bro. Nice house or no nice house.
  9. My god. The video just shows any big house with absolutely no proof of ownership. And you beleive it. The video also just gives the side of one man who accompanied Dhanna Singh to the town on the one occasion and there is no other proof of his being a cat. And you believe it. The voice doesn't even match upto the anchor. Its just manufactured to look that way as if she is reading it, which then gives credence to the video. Dhanna Singh has been very active in Khalistani circles and in creating links with kashmiri groups in UK. He is on the radar of indian intelligence and so is a target. It looks to me like this video is just one ploy.
  10. Want to warn any brothers, active in Sikh fields to beware of this guy. He pretends to be an open-minded person but has over the last year to my knowledge began to support ranjit ghaghri wala through his various media outlets. Ranj himself has been recorded during a phone call saying he doesn't beleive in Sri Dasme Patshah's Granth Sahib. Ranj a few years ago, also said that he will only do parchar dfrom SGGS, which made many people suspicious that he was against SDPGS. ghaghri no longer follows the SRM but this gurnam has made him out as if he does and that ghaghri is the innocent party. listen to the video proof from two of nekis fools: Anyhow this gurnam has started to advocate for ranj over his conflict with Sri Akal Takht Sahib. He works as a presenter for Akaal Channel. Beware of such people in your midst who are ever ready to shake the foundations of Sikhi. This essay shows the true nature of gurnam's views : http://asiasamachar.com/2020/09/04/33223/#respond to which this reply has been created : When we hear of, or read articles written by people with the esteemed honorifics of "Dr/Professor," we assume that the person in question must be a really well-read balanced individual with likeable attributes and personality due to their extensive education and research into particular fields. Indeed some, by adding these labels try to elevate themselves into some superior status, or level of understanding. Here we have one such example in Dr Gurnam Singh. He has written an article on Ranjit Singh Dhadrianwala in which he has made some observations that it would be wholesome to explore further. Gurnam's article is nothing but a defence of Ranjit. The first claim in defence of Ranjit is that he is a popular preacher with a huge following around the world. I'm not sure when and where numbers, or quantity became the benchmark of truth or honesty. Indeed if we were to look at quantative reasoning then there are millions who bow to Mecca every day, and millions who bathe in the Ganges on festivals. Does this give them greater access to the truth over Ranjit who has thousands of followers? In the same way, the Radha Swami movement has millions of people around the world. Why shouldn't we follow these people then? Gurbani does not prescribe to truth being validated by numbers. The second claim in defence of Ranjit by Gurnam is that Ranjit is a staunch defender of the official Akaal Takht Sikh Rehit Maryada (SRM). Maybe he was at one time. Ranjit has for some time denied that he was against Sri Dasme Patshah's Granth. For some, the suspicions arose when Ranjit stated some years ago that he will only preach from Guru Granth Sahib. Now a phone recording has surfaced where Ranjit states he has no faith in Sri Dasme Patshah's Granth Sahib. So therefore 3 of the 5 banis for Khande di Pahul according to the "official Akaal Takht Sikh Rehit Maryada (SRM)" are therefore not recognised by Ranjit. The Ardas of the Sikhs is not recognised by Ranjit either since this also comes from Sri Dasme Patshah's Granth Sahib. How is this a staunch defence of the "official Akaal Takht Sikh Rehit Maryada (SRM)" by Ranjit ? Thirdly, Gurnam refers to a "widespread feeling that the Jathedars, and the Shiromani Gurdwara Parbandhak Committee (SGPC) who employs them, are actually being controlled by a political elite heavily influenced by Parkash Singh Badal and his allies in the Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP)." Now if this were true, politicians like Badal would be falling over themselves to acquire Ranjits patronage. Why? Because he has a huge following in Panjab. Politically, a person like Ranjit would be a huge asset to Badal. Politicians go to wherever there are votes. Did Badal not realise how important this was after the Dera Sacha Sauda helped the Congress to power some years ago? So why would a poltician like Badal want to cause any kind of distress to Ranjit ? Exploring excommunication further, Gurnam then states that this never happened in the times of the Gurus. I beg to differ. I know that Ranjit and his supporters have an aversion to Sikh history, but the point still needs to be made from a historical incident, where Guru Har Rai excommunicated his OWN SON, from Guru Nanak Nirmal Panth for changing Gurbani. From that time, Guru Sahib's son, Ram Rai, was banished from sangat and Sikhs were instructed to have no interaction with him. This decision making power passed onto the Guru Khalsa Panth, which they also exercised against Guru Gobind Singh, when Guru Sahib tested the resolve of the Khalsa, in Dadu Dwar. Throughout history, it has been exercised, notably against Sardar Jassa Singh Ramgarhia, and Maharaja Ranjit Singh. Akali Phoola Singh on hearing of Maharaja Sahib's trangressions ordered the Sikhs to have no interaction with Maharaja Sahib and that he was outside of the Panth, for which Maharaja Sahib apologised and took punishment, on which he was then forgiven. And then in 1978, the Sant Nirankaris. You see, it's very easy to throw around titles such as Professor, Doctor etc, but to be devoid of historical knowledge then makes for dangerous futures. People look upto these kind of people and think "that must be the truth, since when have Professors began to tell lies ..." Further on in his article, Gurnam, then resorts to emotional outbursts which have no standing or basis. These outbursts are based on their own ignorance, and when coupled with an audience of a subservient nature, seem to make themselves the reasonable party, and the other side the transgressors. Gurnam tells an outrageous lie, that the Damdami Takal, or the Sant Samaj "explicitly" reject the SRM. This is a complete lie, and one can only wonder how a "Professor" arrives at these conclusions. If the Taksal had "explicitly" rejected the SRM, I'm sure Gurnam can show us the proof. Taksal maryada and SRM is identical on most points. However the key is that the Taksal acknowledges the SRM in all the institutions that are controlled by the SGPC. There, there is no conflict. The Taksal follows its own maryada, which they claim was set by Guru Gobind Singh, in the handful of Gurdwaras they run. So, on the one hand, you have an esteemed "academic activist dedicated to human rights, liberty, equality, social and environmental justice" defending a person who has tried to hide the fact that he does NOT accept the maryada of SRM by denying the place of Sri Dasme Patshah's Granth Sahib, and on the other hand you have the Taksal who whilst not sharing 100% maryada with SRM, do not denigrate the SRM. What, or who, is behind Gurnam's effort to try and mislead the wider Sikh community? Gurnam then moves onto issues of religious interpretation. Ranjit views that "Kudrat is God." That the Creator and the Creation are one. Gurbani does not claim this in any way whatsoever. Gurbani says that the Creator resides everywhere throughout the Universe. Gurbani says that this world was created by the Creator. So how was "Kudrat" God when kudrat was not even created? Did God not exist at that time? If the earth were to vanish tomorrow would God vanish along with it? What about the Mool Mantar which says that God is Ajooni? The Kudrat is God thinking is strictly against the Mool Mantar concept of God. In Gurbani the world is described as transitory. If this is true, then how can creation be described as such, when Mool Mantar says it is Akaal Moorat? Then there is the oft-misquoted line, which is misquoted by Ranjit and repeated by Gurnam : "Man thoo joath saroop hei, apna mool pehchaan” or “O mind you are the embodied light of the divine, recognize this and you will know your true origin" This doesn't mean that we are God. It means we are a part of God. It doesn't mean that God resides in us, rather we reside in God. The world resides in God. The creation resides in God. The jyot that is in us, is also inside plants, animals, air, and the sea. So have these ALL become God? Or are we all, the creation, nature and space all residing in God? Gurbani tells us nature itself was created by the Creator through his Word. That nature is inside the Creator himself. This nature is transitory. The Creator is not. Because of this paradigm shift in the nature of the Creator and creation, in the orbit of Gurmat, especially where it flies completely in the face of Gurbani, Ranjit is facing opposition. He is not the first. The Sodhis faced it when they went against the Gurus. The Bandei Khalsa faced it when they went against the Panth. The Sant Nirankaris faced it when they declared their own person as above Guru Granth Sahib. The Radha Swamis, and Dera Sacha Sauda faced the same. So why is Ranjit any more special than the others that we should accept his lies about God? Then Gurnam, further to defend Ranjit says that Ranjit uses "focusses on those Shabads in the Guru Granth Sahib that explicitly challenge the prevailing ritualistic practices of the Hindu pandits and Muslim mullahs." Both hindu pandit and muslims rise early to make ablutions and prayers. So do Sikhs. We observe amritvela. But how is Ranjit focusing on this practice? By saying that "God created the night for us to sleep. How can someone ignore the kudrat of sleep to wake up and pray to Him? " So by that defence of Ranjit, maybe Gurnam could clarify whether he or Manjit, both don't observe amritvela now? It would be interesting to know. Gurnam then moves onto an oft-repeated slogan for their thinking - "Ranjit Singh's self-proclaimed logical, scientific approach to Sikhi" - science DOESN'T believe in God. Logic says that God does not exist. But let's give Gurnam the benefit of the doubt. Let Gurnam prove that God does exist. Logically. This writeup will be sent to Gurnam and hopefully he will be able to respond to this point first. Prove that God exists Gurnam. I'm astonished at Gurnam's claim to dedicated to environmental justice. Humans have caused immense damage to the earth's eco-system, and global warming is evident to see. One day us humans could destroy the earth or cause conditions to deteriorate to such a degree that life on earth will become extremely fragile. How could a human affect the "god" of Ranjit in such a way? Further on, Gurnam (and has previously on numerous occasions) refers to Guru Nanak Dev Ji as "Nanak." What kind of respect is that to Guru Sahib? Maybe Gurnam is used to addressing his own father by his first name, that he feels he can push his disrespect further. One of the most ludicrous assertions of Gurnam's in his article, is aliging Ranjit with Gyani Ditt Singh and Professor Gurmukh Singh. These men spent their whole lives learning about Gurmat, sikh philosophy and history. What learning/education has Ranjit undertaken? His only education was in learning sakhis and singing them to students. And this lack of education has shown when he tried to peddle his "kudrat is god" nonsense. When did Gurmukh Singh or Ditt Singh ever make such statements? In end, I would like to emphasise why Ranjit refuses to appear before Sri Akal Takht Sahib. He is afraid that in doing so, he will be exposed, and his own shop - he is so fond of saying "ihna dian dukana band hon lag pia " will end up closed, or visited only by cult followers. But lastly, I would advise all those, especially those with the titles of Professor/Doctor etc to not be so blinded by charismatic people of Ranjits ilk, especially when he twists the fundamentals of Gurmat.
  11. The Khalsa Academy in wolverhampton allowed gideans to come in and give out bibles to the students. Sikh ethos schools have the freedom to do as much or as little about Sikhi in their schools. It's just a pity that TKAW is mass producing a generation of athiest sikh children. My niece has completed 5 years at this school, and knows next to nothing about Sikhi. There are also parents who don't have the knowledge to teach themselves. If they don't know it, they can't help their children. Some children also are very obstinate about not learning at home, but when they are with their peers, they participate in learning. Gurdwaras are useless about teaching children about gurmat. Parents are often clueless themselves. The best option was schools, but even that is very hit and miss now.
  12. Skhs are far too splintered these days for any movement to be effective. The Singh Sabha lehar was ok-ish but in the long-run has caused some major problems. Rather than look for a panth-wide movement, I think we should look at village level movements which can then expand. It will be nigh on impossible trying to find a leader that majority of Sikhs would accept.
  13. That looks more like some middle aged fat woman than the 16/17 year old in question. Well, why didn't you? Sirsa lied, along with all the other media outlets including india's, because that was the story they were told. Sirsa didn't lie on purpose. The Pak Panjab Governor said in a video, that jagjit will be returned home. Everyone took it as gospel. These modern Khalistanis are more than a disgrace. They are traitors to the Panth since they have started abandoning and ridiculing Sri Dasme Patshah's Granth Sahib.
  14. Why did Allah SWT create Iblis then, if Allah SWT, the best of planners, wasn't to know that Iblis would refuse to bow before Adam ?
  15. Not foot. Feet. Mecca moved to wherever the Qazi moved Guru Sahib's feet. Haven't heard that one. Will look into it. My dear neighbour, who would need a counter argument when the best scholars of Islam never had an argument in the first place? That is MY fault. It is the fault of EVERY Sikh on this forum, in the street you live in, in the cities they inhabit and the countries they reside in. Guru Nanak gave us (and you) the message, yet because of our (sikh) weaknesses we have not be able to take them to a level or audience they deserve. Yes for many reasons. One is that the sword is never to attack to but to defend. This mentality had to be drummed into Sikhs first. But you didn't get your degree with your nursery teacher when you were 3 or 4 years old did you? You went to different schools, had many teachers for 18 odd years before you were rewarded with your degree. That is the same with Gurmat. The birth and strengthening of Gurmat could not be confined to one man's lifetime. But I could aslo ask you, why the best of planners, Allah needed to send 124,999 prophets before he send the best one. Before he, the best of planners after thousands of years sent the "perfect example of man" to guide others. Why not just have this perfect example as the first and only ? Surely that would have been the best of planning yes?
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