Vegetarianism & Leather/fur/snake Skin/wool Etc

[Guest Bloom]

In My Opinion,

As I Swim In the Ocean, I Enjoy the Love of the Waters,

My Friends are Beautiful, They Are Playful and Graceful,

Do You Not See Us Play?

My Neighbor the Tortoise, is Grumpy, But Very Loving,

And the Sharks only Kill to Eat,

They Do Not Hate; Do You Not Know and Understand this?

Are Not the Whales Beautiful and Majestic?

You See, God Lives in the Ocean Too. But the Humans are Blind,

The Dharmic Ones Know, that Even We Love The Creator.

Guru Nanak Says, that The Creator Dwells in the Waters.

My Eyes See, as do Yours. My Blood is Red, as Yours.

I am Playful and Loving.

I Live in Waters.

Dear Human,

Please! This I beg, Please Leave Us Alone. Our Tears Will Wash Your Feet.

We Live in the Jungles,

We Dwell in the Forests,

We Live Everywhere On Land.

I am a Lion, I am an Ant,

I am a Goat, I am an Elephant,

I am a Chicken, I am a Cheetah,

I am a Deer, I am a Leopard,

I am a Horse, I am a Mink,

I am a Pig, I am a Squirrel,

I am a Cow, I am a Hamster

I am Lamb, I am a Bunny

I am a Baby,

I am Loving, Playful and Sentient.

My Eyes are Playful Filled with Love,

Do You not See?

I Live on Land, I Play Here Too,

And Guru Nanak Loves Me Too.

For Guru Nanak Says, That the Creator Lives on the Land and Is In All.

Guru Nanak Says, That the Creator Has Many Eyes, and Many Feet,

Look! Look! I have Eyes and Feet Too!

Dear Human,

Please! This I Beg, Please Leave Us Alone. Our Tears Will Wash Your Feet.

We Dwell in the Trees,

And Have Made the Skies our Playground.

We Make Homes, called Nests, and Raise Our Babies with Love,

When Our Babies our Hurt, It Kills Us Inside, We Suffer in Pain.

Our Feathers were Fashioned by the Creator, Intricate, Detailed and

Beautiful.

Even the Humans Admire Our Beauty. They Want to Steal Our Bodies and Feathers,

We Feel the Pain and Sufferings of the Animals That Are Skinned,

and Understand the Sufferings of the Beautiful Fish Too.

We Are Not Spared by the Humans.

The Heartless Humans do Not Understand That the Creator Loves Us Too,

And We Love Him.

For Guru Nanak Loves Me Too.

Guru Nanak Says that God Lives in the Skies Too.

Do You not See?

The Representatives from the Waters, Land and Skies Had a Meeting and We Agreed,

If We Attack You, You May Protect Yourself Accordingly!

But,

On your Fairness, We…

Dear Human,

Please! This I Beg, Please Leave Us Alone. Our Tears Will Wash Your Feet.

Please! This I Beg, Please Leave Us Alone. Our Tears Will Wash Your Feet.

Oh Fortunate Humans,

Oh So Fortunate Indeed,

Dharma You Can Follow,

The Seed of Compassion in the Farm of Your Heart you can Plant,

Guru Nanak Loves All, Including Us.

Please! This I Beg, Please Do Not Cause Us Pain and Sufferings.

Our Tears Will Wash Your Feet.

My Name is Fish, and I live in Waters,

My Name is Animal, and I live On Lands,

My Name is Bird, and I live in the Skies,

I am a Playful, Loving and Sentient Being, and The World Belongs to Us Too,

My Name Also was Created by The True Name.

Dear Human,

Please! This I Beg, Please Follow Dharma! This Alone is Your Purpose!

The Parent is Compassion, And The Support Dharma is The Son!

Oh Fortunate Sikhs of The Great Guru Nanak!

You Were Born For Dharma! And Compassion is a Must for Dharma to Flourish,

Your Destiny is Great! Do Not Lose This Game of Life,

Take Your Steps With Caution! and,

The World Will Bow at Your Morale!

The World is Crying In Pain, and Only Dharma Can Save,

Dharma Has Sacrificed Its' Head to the House of Guru Gobind Singh,

But Only After Compassion!

Oh Most Compassionate Brothers and Sisters of Bhai Kaneeyaa,

Let the Innocents Play, and Destroy the Tyrants,

We,

The Ones in Waters, Land and Sky,

Please, This We Beg,

Please Follow Dharma!

Our Love For The House of Guru Nanak Too is Eternal!

Love Us Too,

Our Tears Will Wash Your Feet!

[Guest Veggie]

Sangat Ji,

Nice to hear others views on the matter. I did not know that our Forefathers used leather and silk. Everything they did in their human life was is in line with the Hukam from Akaal Purakh. We do not even have the right to question the ways of our Gurus.

What are the views of Amritdharis on this? ... do you not eat meat because it is stated in the Rehat Maryada or do you follow the teachings of Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji alone where we are told:

“To take what rightfully belongs to another, is like a Muslim eating pork, or a Hindu eating beef.

Our Guru, our Spiritual Guide, stands by us if we do not eat those carcasses. By mere talk, people do not earn Liberation. Salvation only comes from the practice of truth. By adding spices to forbidden foods, they are not made acceptable. O Nanak, from false talk, only falsehood is obtained” (Guru Granth Sahib Ji, 141).

I am not saying the Rehat Maryada is not to be adhered to - but isn't the ultimate Hukam 'Guru Manyo Granth'? There are so many variations of the Rehat Maryada but what does it matter when the ultimate Hukam is Guru Manyo Granth? Rehat Maryada (in my lowly opinion) is not thorough enough to be followed as a seperate entity - it must be fully combined with the teachings of our Gurus.

Rehat Maryada will prescribe vegetarianism to it's followers, but Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji does not prescribe this straight out - instead we are taught many lessons that point you towards making the right decision:

Not to steal what belongs to others (the skin of animals is not ours, Waheguru has given us our own skin to live this human life)

To be righteous (this applies to every aspect of our lives, Guru Ji teaches us that it is not right to kill animals for taste, is fashion not a taste in itself?)

Not to oppress (are these animals not oppressed to fulfill the material needs of humans? see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oppression)

I know people will say this Sant said this and this Baba said that but what our Guru says comes first, everything and everybody is second to that.

Gur Fateh

[Guest Veggie]

@ Bloom's post - Waheguroooooo _/\_

Where is this from?

Sachi, it's beautiful. It has also given me a fresh understanding of 'Pavan Guru Pani Pita, Mata Dharat Mahat'. I have always seen this as Akaal Purakh is everywhere and that he is our Teacher, our Father and our Mother ... our everything. But never when reading this have I thought about other lifeforms that live in Pavan, Pani and Dharat.

Thank you Ji.

Gur Fateh

[Only five]

^^^^^ Great piece

[Guest leather]

what about Bhagath Ravidas ji, he made cham (leather) so was that wrong?

the question about stealing milk from cows has always made me confused too - just as it would'nt be exceptable to steal milk from a mother of a baby, it is cruel to take milk from a cow that produces milk for the baby cow.

pleasae give more views???

[Guest Jeeves]

What do you think happens to all of the cows once they have stopped producing milk? Somehow I don't think they get pensioned off and retire to the seaside.

I have been a vegetarian for a short while now, my next step is to give up dairy products - if I drink and eat milk, cheese, yoghurt what does a baby cow drink?

[Guest Bloom]

In My Opinion,

As For Bhagat Ravidaas Jee, I Think the Leather Bhagat Jee Used was From Naturally Deceased Animals.

I Believe That in the Times of Our 10 Gurus'- From Guru Nanak to Guru Gobind Singh Jee, the Milk that Was Used, were From Animals That Were Treated Well. They Were Naturally Grazing, Not Treated Cruelly, Etc. There was Plenty of Milk for the Calves as Well as Langar. There was Mutual Love and Respect, Between Human and Animal. Humane Farmers Treat Their Animals with A Lot of Respect.

But since the Inception of Factory Farming in the recent Centuries, Many Things Changed. Cruelty, etc. is The Norm. Profit the Goal. Animals are Treated as Products on an Assembly Line. This was not the Case of the Past. In the Past, the Animals were given A Lot of Respect, even the Horses of the Khalsa were Called 'Jaan Bhai – Bhai Means Brother'.

The Milk Today, They even Add Vitamins from Sources Such as Fish, Lanolin etc. to Milk. The Animals are Drugged etc. Many Unnatural and Most Often, Cruel Procedures are Practiced.

It should go Back to Organic, Naturally Grazing, Natural, Nothing added to Milk etc.. Khalsa Should Become Humane Farmers for the Milk for Langar and Degh. Khalsa Will Treat the Animals with Respect. Only Humane Milk Should Be Used in My Opinion. Is Humane Milk available in the Market Place at the Moment? I Don't Know. I Don't Think So. Perhaps.

I do have Some Hope for the Future Though. I Feel Humane Milk Will be Available in the Future. Perhaps Some Farmers are Already Beginning to Tread Down the Path of Compassion for Their Animals and Source of Milk. Compassionate Farmers Treat the Animals Well During and After Their Milking Ages. They Treat the Calves Well Too. Profit is not Their Motive.

I Do Believe There is a Difference Between Milk and Meat. With Humane Milk, the Animals Are Treated with Respect Throughout Their Lives. Killing Them would be Contradictory. Humane Farmers Treat Their Animals With Love. They Provide Space, Grazing, Good Food, Good Care, the Humans are Like Servants to The Animals. Just Like Families Support Each Other and Share Their Resources, the Same Way, Humane Farmers Treat Their Animals as Family and Mutually Benefit Each Other. Not For Meat; Milk.

I Want Humane Milk to be Available. I am Hopeful for the Future.

[Guest GUPT]

Just understanding what jeeves said, since when has it been lawfully wrong to drink milk and take other products from a cow. You said if you consume the products then what does the baby cow eat, well surely if this is the logic then there would be few if any cows left to give milk to us sorry but am not understanding this care to explain.

Then wont we start saying that we should not have dehi (yoghurt)?

Posted 05 October 2009 - 08:39 AM

What do you think happens to all of the cows once they have stopped producing milk? Somehow I don't think they get pensioned off and retire to the seaside.

I have been a vegetarian for a short while now, my next step is to give up dairy products - if I drink and eat milk, cheese, yoghurt what does a baby cow drink?

[Guest Gupt]

Just commenying on jeeves earlier post, if we think like that then would't there be very few if any cows left if they are getting treated badly. As we can understand that some practises may differ but the majority shud be ok i guess. U care to expand or explain ur point further.

[Guest camel face]

would u behave with ur sister or mother the same way u behave with ur wife? would u do the same things with ur sister as you do to ur wife? both are made from 5 tats, both are women, both are born from moms, and both have potention to be mothers. but would u behave with them in the same manner???

most sikh musical instruments are made by killing some part of the animal , there are some pumpkins that didnt survive the process either. I would worry about it too much, just enjoy the music . If it werent for the music then where would we be?