Caste

[Guest singh usa]

why do sikhs believe in castes when were not meant to? I am jatt but who cares, i wana marry a long time friend who is tarkhan, She is not my girlfriend, its simple, we've known each other since high school, we know each other well, we talk about everything together, we do everything as friend do but nothing else.....so one day we thought hey, were both Sikh, my parents aren't having much luck finding me a bride and vice versa with my friend, so we thought lets get married to each other. don't get me wrong i think physically she is attractive, but it had never crossed my mind to get together with her, until it recently made sense....we both agreed to see what our parents thought.....AND THAT WAS THAT.....THEY BOTH REFUSED....

we have both accepted our parents wishes, but we still remain best friends.....thats life i guess, just frustrating that our parents are stuck in their ways...

peace out.

[Jag_Singh]

Parents only want to best for you. They want you to be in a league of theirs, not in another. That's where problems tend to arise. The thing with castes is it differentiates sangat into sections of work. Punjabi parents tend to be pleased with a person from the same work. Now do you even know what a 'dharkhan' is, have you ever looked after your 'zameen' back in punjab? have you ever learnt what a jatt does all day? If you are living a totally different life style in USA, then couldn't you support a family there?

The thing with western youth society is they are mainly adapted to western cultures/rituals. In a way you may find some of your parents wishes quite hard to take..... Going against parents wishes whilst you are a kid, you can learn from. Going against your parents wishes when you hit the adult age, may get them and you scared for the rest of your life.

Best thing to do is a beanti to maharaaj to looking for a bride. Try to do a ardaas....

vjkk vjkf

[Guest singh usa]

Parents only want to best for you. They want you to be in a league of theirs, not in another. That's where problems tend to arise. The thing with castes is it differentiates sangat into sections of work. Punjabi parents tend to be pleased with a person from the same work. Now do you even know what a 'dharkhan' is, have you ever looked after your 'zameen' back in punjab? have you ever learnt what a jatt does all day? If you are living a totally different life style in USA, then couldn't you support a family there?

The thing with western youth society is they are mainly adapted to western cultures/rituals. In a way you may find some of your parents wishes quite hard to take..... Going against parents wishes whilst you are a kid, you can learn from. Going against your parents wishes when you hit the adult age, may get them and you scared for the rest of your life.

Best thing to do is a beanti to maharaaj to looking for a bride. Try to do a ardaas....

vjkk vjkf

I know what a dharkan is, and im also proud of my herritage and jatt culture, my grandparents jameen in my pend is still their, and my dad has told me and my brother never ever to sell it under no circumstances as they have worked hard to maintain it and made living out of it in the past.

I respect my parents, thats why me and my friend have decided to let it be.....but my parents are amritdhari so i thought they would have been more understanding of the situation.

[Guest HaRdKaUrWaRrIoRz]

although i am not tarkhan if u want to call it htat, i know some ppl friends etc who are, right off the top of my head one of my good friends her dad was an engineer in india, another good friend her dad was a real estate agent and had jameen himself as well as owned a bank and other businesses...so about the work...um im a jatt and ppl in my relatives in inida are also doing business...

so anyway jobwise i dont think it really sticks these days also if ur rents are real gursikhs as a matter of fact it wudnt have mattered to them, straight off the top of my head again i can think of two gursikh couples whose rents introduced them and arranged the marriage and they were not aware of one anothers "caste" and today they know that one is a jatt and one is ramgharia, in the end they sed it didtn matter to them nor their rents cus they are gursikh...a friend called me a while ago ( a singhnee) and asked me to tell her parents if my rents knew any sikh guy and i asked her just incase if there were any caste issues, she sed no, none ( she is "jatt" btw)

genetically tarkhans and jatts and some other so called castes are like one another , these were jsut misls created back in the day and honestly it makes no diff, if someone is comfortable with a tarkhan family being a jatt themselves then they shud be able to marry them, i know many tarkhan friends, adn their way of life in india, way of talking, interacting, language etc and thoughts etc are just like my family and relatives who are so called jatts, in my opinion me and my family didnt know that two of my closest friends were tarkhan for many years lol , we never really gave thought to it but one day it came out and we were like oh ok u know w/e ( and no they didnt change their last names etc)

so i see no point.. so i guess to answer ur quetsion, yes in sikhi this wud be frowned upon by our gurus, culturally it may be frowned upon by punjabi mentality ppl although i do noe some ppl who dont care about it as much i guess cus things in the west have like put us all on the same boat, and many ppl live the same lifestyle etc

all in all casteism has no place in sikhism, its a basic principle we learn as a first step when being introduced to sikhi:) , whether it has a place in culture? well even the devil has a place in culture

good luck:)

[Guest Jasnaam]

Caste is bakwaas! I'm sorry to hear that your parents are not allowing you to marry the girl u want to marry because of your 'caste' but try sitting down and talkin to them. Try explaining to them that no one believes in caste anymore! we're all humas. We bow to the Guru Granth sahib which contains bani by bhagats from low 'castes' who were not ashamed.Nnow if we go round saying 'yes i'm a jatt' do we think we're higher than Guru Sahib? Please try to keep ekta and don't let pety things like caste get in the way.

fakarr jaathee fakarr naao ||

Pride in social status is empty; pride in personal glory is useless.

sabhanaa jeeaa eikaa shhaao ||

The One Lord gives shade to all beings.

I apologise for any mistakes!

[Jag_Singh]

I find it funny when one calls themself a 'jatt/chumaar/ etc' when they have never experienced the work related. In the west it's all about 'class'...the higher class the more prestige....lower the class the less 'self esteem'....very very similar to 'caste' if not the same. For all you westernised youths.....answer this one simple question: After getting a masters in mathematics, you gradually become a professor at a top uni..... would you still consider yourself a 'jatt'? After living a life totally different to what your Grand/parents lived too... Yes 'zameen' is important. It has value. It's all about society and living within it....Parents 'want's' will be demanding and at the same time it becomes hard to fufill your goals in life. Yes Sikhi teaches us about seeing the one in others and as well in yourself, that doesn't mean we should be divided into upper and lower class.

<br />so anyway jobwise i dont think it really sticks these days also if ur rents are real gursikhs as a matter of fact it wudnt have mattered to them

I don't understand about the 'real gursikhs'....

[KEERPA]

If your parents are iidiots then whats the use of listening to them, if the case was only listen to what they say and their wishes then I wouldnt be allowed to be a Sikh. My wife isnt even the same race, yet we are both Sikhs and thats all that matters in Guru Sahibs standpoint.

Im a carpenter but Im not labeled a trakan/dharkan etc.....(?) Most jatts dont even know how to farm or would whine about getting dirt on their hands. Caste system is for hindus or stupid ignorant Sikhs. People that claim to be "caste" Sikhs eat feces for dinner and vomit for dessert then they shouldnt be suprized when they are told they are unhealthy.

If you believe in caste then you have a nasty smelling disease that is the smell of rotting flesh and crazy thinking that only a madman can think up.

If your parents a greedy and selfish does that mean you should be too even if they are upset that you are nice and caring???????

[Guest --gupt--]

Waheguru ji ka khalsa!Waheguru ji ki fateh!

Read what is written in shri guru granth saheb ji about caste:

Guru Amar Daas Ji in Raag Bhairao on Ang 1127

Recognize the Lord's Light within all, and do not consider social class or status; there are no classes or castes in the world hereafter. ||1||Pause||

Raag Bhairao, Third Mehla, ChauPaday, First House:

One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:

No one should be proud of his social class and status.

He alone is a Brahmin, who knows God. ||1||

Do not be proud of your social class and status, you ignorant fool!

So much sin and corruption comes from this pride. ||1||Pause||

Everyone says that there are four castes, four social classes.

They all emanate from the drop of God's Seed. ||2||

The entire universe is made of the same clay.

The Potter has shaped it into all sorts of vessels. ||3||

The five elements join together, to make up the form of the human body.

Who can say which is less, and which is more? ||4||

Says Nanak, this soul is bound by its actions.

Without meeting the True Guru, it is not liberated. ||5||1||

O Nanak, one who becomes Gurmukh chants the Name of the Lord, Har, Har, and rises above all social classes and status symbols. ||46||

The Lord is the social class and honor of His devotees; the Lord's devotees merge in the Naam, the Name of the Lord.

Chanting the Name of the Lord, Har, Har, erases social classes and ancestral pedigrees.

Kabeer's Lord and Master is joyous and blissful; He does not care about anyone's social class. ||2||9||

Those who believe in high and low social classes

only sing songs and chants of egotism.

Social class and status, race, ancestry and skepticism are eliminated, following the Guru's Teachings and contemplating the Word of the Shabad. ||1||

One whose mind is pleased and appeased, has no egotistical pride. Violence and greed are forgotten.

God does not ask about social class or birth; you must find your true home.

That is your social class and that is your status - the karma of what you have done.

[Mehtab Singh]

othey amlaan de honay ne naverrhay

kisay nah teri jaat pushni

[Guest Guest]

Waheguru ji ka khalsa

Waheguru ji ki fateh

Singh USA,

The real problem is, you don't seem to be a confident and independant person even after being in States.

Therefore you are unable to practice your beliefs. Under these circumstances, what you did was best i.e obey your parents.

Frankly, unless a person is Mature and creates his/her own Individuality, they will always be judged only on the basis of parents or ancestory as they are technically Dependants not Adults.

Waheguru ji ka khalsa

Waheguru ji ki fateh