Punjabi Vs. Sikh

[guptkuri]

Punjabi Vs. Sikh

Picking Sides

Sikhism is one religion where you can't have both culture and religion; to maintain either you have to take one out of the equation. Punjabi culture is all about drinking, dancing, and sex discrimination. Sikhi is abstaining from all negative stuff that harms our body (like drinking); exercising instead of dancing and against all forms of discrimination. That is why Gurudwara Sahibs most refrain from promoting Punjabi Culture events, encouraging the caste system and allowing discrimination.

Majority of Sikhs are Punjabis but majority of Punjabis are not Sikhs, yet Gurudwara Sahibs still promote Punjabi culture events aimed at non-Sikhs. Sikh is one that follows the teachings of Sikh Gurus and is amritdhari or working towards taking amrit. A Sikh does not drink alcohol, wear flashy clothes, eat meat or partake in non-gurmat events. Majority of culture events that take place and are promoted by Gurudwara Sahibs allow drinking, encourage flashy clothes, eating meat and forgetting Waheguru. Events are typically held outside of the Gurudwara Premises or without the presence of Guru Granth Sahib Ji because these events are anti-gurmat and not related to Sikhi. We forget that removing Guru JI from the room or going to separate venue does not hide our deeds from Guru Ji. Waheguru Ji is present everywhere and watching over us at all times. So next time we use the Gurudwara banner to promote Teeyan, Rakhsa Bandan, Karva Chutha, Diwali and etc. for political and financial reasons or even to get more people to enter the Gurudwara Sahib, let's take a moment to think if the event can be held in Guru Ji's presence. Respect all religions and cultures but not at the price of Sikhi.

Sikhi promotes respecting all regardless of caste, yet we announce castes as if they are badge of honor. Many members of the Sikh community still use the caste system when picking life partners and judging others but Gurudwara Sahibs should not encourage it. Gurudwara Sahibs must keep caste out of any matrimonial services offered and refuse to acknowledge or announce any last names other than Singh, Kaur or Khalsa (with expectation of other religion visitors). Every time during ardass or announcements we mention last names, the elder members of the community immediately figure out the person's caste. There might be an excuse to using different last name outside of the Gurudwara Sahib but under no circumstances should it be allowed inside. Please ask everyone to check there are caste/last names at the door, when enter the Gurudwara Sahib. We are all equal in the eyes of Waheguru Ji and that is what the Gurudwara Sahib should promote.

For true equality we must not only get rid of the caste system but also get rid of gender discrimination. Punjabis and Indian in general are well-known for their preference of males over females. There is a high rate of Female abortion in Punjab and we should work in keeping that problem out of our communities in the west. The west has always set an example for doing bad stuff for the people back home, let us set a better example for them this time. Gurudwara Sahibs must encourage more women to learn kirtan do it for sangat to inspire more. We must not hire Granthies whose wives/daughters do not live a Gursikh life style. The people that couldn't teach their own families, what will they teach our children? Being a Granthi is not a job but a tool to inspire more Gursikhs (men and women). We have to encourage more females to get involved in Seva in all of the Gurudwara Sahib, not just the langar hall. They should be encouraged to seva where other females can see them and get inspired. Gurudwara Sahib must promote equality of the genders and help preserve Sikhi for the next generation.

Gurudwara Sahibs are the keepers of Sikhi, the home of Guru Ji, and they must not sell out and become the keepers of Punjabi culture. Sikhs must protect Sikhi and keep Punjabi culture out of Gurudwara Sahibs. And Punjabis must respect Sikhi and check Punjabi culture at the door. Gurudwara Sahib have to pick Sikhi today or tomorrow there won't be a Sikhi left to pick in most Gurudwara Sahibs.

Authors Note: The intention was not to hurt feelings, just telling the truth as I see it. Any questions or comments or advice please email at fromthese5tothose5@hotmail.com

[dalsingh101]

I like the piece. Just to highlight some areas for further vichaar:

There might be an excuse to using different last name outside of the Gurudwara Sahib but under no circumstances should it be allowed inside. Please ask everyone to check there are caste/last names at the door, when enter the Gurudwara Sahib. We are all equal in the eyes of Waheguru Ji and that is what the Gurudwara Sahib should promote.

I understand your sentiment but don't we have to be careful of then creating a false scenario where people act like caste is no issue for the small amount of time they are at the Gurdwara but continue as normal as soon as they step outside of it? We need to go beyond part time facades and actually inculcate noncaste bias in everyday daily life for Sikhs.

We must not hire Granthies whose wives/daughters do not live a Gursikh life style. The people that couldn't teach their own families, what will they teach our children?

This one is very dodgy if you look at Sikh history even during our 10 Guru's physical time on earth. Ram Rai, son of Guru Har Rai ji disappointed the Guru by compromising bani, but we don't portray that as a failure on the Guru's part.

Prithi Chand was the son of Guru Ram Das and later refused to submit to the Guruship of Guru Arjan Dev ji causing all manner of problems including starting a rival movement to Sikhi.

Dhir Mal was the grandson of Guru Hargobind ji and was seriously wayward and showed violent enmity and jealousy to Guru Tegh Bahadhur.

I understand your point about needing good role models in the community but excessive judgmentalism is dangerous given that such things even occurred during the physical lifetimes of the Gurus.

[guptkuri]

Veer Ji, I understand what you are saying about creating a false scenario. The only reason I added that in there is because we can't really control or change how people think, act or behave outside but we should try to keep it outside of the Gurudwara Sahib at least. If the parents aren't setting a good example, the least we can do is show the children that caste is not accepted in Sikhi.

The reason I mentioned how the women of the Granthie families typically don't follow Sikhi conduct was to highlight a issue. I would understand if they were few or far inbetween but this is a very common problem. I don't think we can compare this problem to Prithi Chand because Guru Ji never stood for his behaviour. He was passed up for Gurgaddi and not given much importance by the Sikhs. I wouldn't mind if the case of family members not following Sikhi was far and inbetween but it is very common. Being a Granthi has become a job and majority of people are doing the very minmium to get the job.

I will also try to think deeper into the issue.

[NeverForget84dotcom]

At least punjabi culture teaches respect of elders and those around you, unlike the western culture which 90% of today's youth are attached to

One can be both Punjabi AND Sikh, you just need to get off your high horse and stop nit-picking.

[guptkuri]

At least punjabi culture teaches respect of elders and those around you, unlike the western culture which 90% of today's youth are attached to

One can be both Punjabi AND Sikh, you just need to get off your high horse and stop nit-picking.

I am sorry Veer Ji but I am gonna choose to disagree with both of your statements.

I am also sorry for anything wrong I have written which you didn't like. sorry

[dalsingh101]

I love Panjabi culture that doesn't mean it doesn't have both negative and positive aspects. Panjabi culture encourages drinking like few others, caste is a central underpinning in it. Rural Panjabi culture is largely indifferent to intellectual pursuits for other than career reasons. Honour based killings take place between Sikhs of different castes wanting to marry because of it, thousands of unborn female babies are killed because of it, some farmers commit suicide because of their failure to keep up with the materialistic aspect of it....etc. etc.

At the same time, it has a beautiful unique musical and poetic heritage. At it's best it encourages forthright, simple, honest behaviour. Compassion too, but at its worst it makes people indulge in unbelievable acts of cruelty towards others due to economic or caste status. It can unite people or tear them apart as anyone can see with what goes on in Panjab and in Panjabi communities outside of it.

So, young sister, keep examining and continue having a healthily reflective and even positively critical mind towards our heritage, both religious and cultural. When a community stops seeking to evaluate itself and striving for progress and improvement, that is when we get a dead, stagnant society. Sikhs are well known for being pragmatic and dynamic, that shouldn't change.

Most conservatives discourage reflection and change because they have a vested interest in keeping a particular negative status quo in place for their own selfish agendas. Keep humble and keep seeking.

[sukhjeevansingh]

vjkkvjkf!

gurmukho.. before all this needed for nothing criticism.. (saying the author is nitpicking or needs getting of her high horse) have you examined your "punjabi" pride?

at sikhi camp we compared a "punjabi" wedding to a Gursikh one.. it showed all the differences betweeen what modern punjabi culture entails and mahrajs gursikhi..

one other thing have any of you before meaninglessly shooting down the author thought about all the things that are not even modern.. been going on for centuries all in the name of culture.. some of these include jathera worship, peer gugga/ alleged "shaheed" worship whatever in doaba.

Maharaj gave us anand karaj as one one of the sanskars of a gursikh.. look howve we done beadbi of it.. doing maiyan/vatna.. singing dirty sithniya.. paani vaarna..meat sharaab..

gender discrimination.. another thing penjis highlighted..in mahraj jis 52 hukums they ban aurat nuu fitkarana (to shun away a woman).. mahraj removed the practise of sati and man and woman could sit equally before a man would sit on a manja and a bibi on a peerhi all these things were or are a part of punjabi culture..

honestly having discussions with gurdwara committees about full rehat in the guru ghar their argument is always that is extremism.. not even in punjab such strict rehat is followed.

SO WHAT? do we have to be bound by punjabi norms..

i completely agree with the literary heritage of punjab and its history but its modern day culture/ old ritualistic practises i strictly condemn.. theres so many situations where we have to fall out with our parents/families just because we want to follow guruu mahraj ji's gurmat then the manmat punjabi culture..

i honestly believe like baba deep singh shaheed drew the line .. we have to ourselves have to draw the sikhi vs punjabi line : we can follow this so to say punjabi culture and carry on practising what i would call is blind faithed ignorant brahmanvaad in a sense or follow satguru sache patshah jis high ideals whole heartedly.. you cant be part of any culture any state any nation.. our culture our conduct our nation is khalsaaaaa...

rakhriya, teeya, bhangra, gidha, holi, karva chauth - all part of punjabi culture.. is this sikhi?

maafi sangat ji but honestly if it wasnt for mahraj then you wouldnt have the azaadi to follow this hinduu type "do what everyone else does" culture.. we would of all been muslims and yesterday we would of been saying eid mubarak... sorry if i ssaid something wrong buts its an issue i honestly feel strongly about because it affects das and many gursikhs i know who are constantly being told they should become better punjabis rather then try to be gursikhs.

[AvnitK]

i view it as 2 different things punjabi to me is being of that state and living there

being a sikh to me is following wat guru ji says

[dalsingh101]

To be realistic it is unlikely that the masses of Panjabis will be able to totally separate themselves from Panjabi culture. Perhaps what we should expect, demand and push for instead is that Sikh values should reform (at the very least) the more negative aspects of it (Panjabi culture). By this I mean things like corruption, alcoholism, drug taking, caste, killing unborn jananis, excessive materialism - the ego/hankaar side.

Good Sikh values should effect and transform Panjabi society to improve it essentially. It is counterproductive to create a hard and fast 'them and us' scenario where the two sides become estranged. Basically, the relationship is that Panjabis need to be educated by Sikhi values. It will improve them.

[hareshgill]

What is the point!! .. I took the time to register just to say...what full of crap all the above is about.. wake up people !!! If what sikhs or punjabi's are practicing is debatable to this extent, then what is the point to even look into the do's & don't.. It's typical he say she say for freaking generations.. or you just have loads of time to share crap!! why not try NOT to separate the man & women in the house of god first!! then see if you can even succeed this.. If can't, then what is the point!!