About Caste

[Singhstah]

VahegurooJiKaKhalsaVahegurooJiKiFateh!!

The truth is we are not meant to have a surname, its been so many generations since Guru Nanak Dev Ji revealed Sikhi that if the Sikh panth as a whole from that time had truly taken on Guru Ji's teachings, we would not even know our surnames and castes let alone having to try to stop discrimination based on it.

The problem is many people who actually claim not to believe in it or discriminate still have double standards, either based on a small bit of ridiculous and baseless pride left within them, or fear of those who do practice it fully. Fear of being the first to take the brave step of totally exorcising themselves of the system as a whole and fear of what people will think if they do remove all caste links from themselves (Eg fear that people will think they are not giving their name because of being a supposedly lower caste as opposed to simply following Guru Maharaj's hukam and rejecting the system).

Its time those of us that know it is wrong to become absolute extremists in regards to rejecting the caste system. We must endeavour to remove all surnames and all possible links to caste. Lets take this moment to think about this hard, I want everyone to answer this poll honestly, do you tell people your surname when asked (or even without being asked!)?? Do you answer with what your pind is when you have obviously been asked to find out your caste?

Or do you say only Singh/Kaur or Khalsa ALWAYS and answer with Anandpur Sahib as your pind ALWAYS?

If we want to eradicate caste, it must begin with each and every one of us, there must not be a single 'if' or 'but' when it comes to caste, it should be destroyed into nothingness.

Note-when voting in the poll you don't have to take into account legal use of your surname which is understandable if this is what was written on your birth certificate and child documents (as in my own case, however I plan to remove this).

[Khalasthan86]

Vaheguroo Vaheguroo Vaheguroo.

[Singhstah]

sare chup hoge? Expected more than 8 votes and 1 reply...

[dalsingh101]

sare chup hoge? Expected more than 8 votes and 1 reply...

Are you really that surprised?

Underneath the surface, I think Sikh society is often hideously effected by caste considerations. At times it appears as if the majority of us participate in some mass illusion (or cover up) where we have all decided to ignore the big, white elephant of caste lounging about in the corner of the room. I think that is what you are witnessing here?

Personally I don't think solely getting rid of surnames is the key, because plenty of people who don't utilise their surnames still practice casteism albeit discreetly. Plus I have met people who use their surnames but who seem to have rejected the whole baggage of caste through how they view and treat people from different caste backgrounds. A lot of them marry nonSikhs for instance, so I guess for a lot of these people, both caste and faith have no real importance in their lives?

Caste is drummed into our heads by our families and we are brainwashed or pressurised through social conformity to go along with it. The fact that it is also used as some sort of mobilising tool by dodgy 'Sikh' politicians back home probably plays a part too?

I think that we what we need is a frank and open discussion about the nature of caste in the panth. I remember when people tried to face it 13/14 years ago (when I was at uni) certain Sikhs used to stifle the debate when casteism was being attacked by saying "leave it alone, caste is diminishing", with hindsight we now know that many of these 'Sikhs' were secretly very pro caste and just saying this so nothing was done to face up to it. The long term results of this ignoring are obvious now.

Maybe the youth will finally muster the courage to face it full on now? One thing we should be acutely aware of is that a hell of a lot of apnay are actually procaste, whether they admit to it or not. This has to be faced.

[gurdssingh]

the question you ask is "do you tell people your surname? not singh or kaur, your 'family' name".

Surely the point you tried to make is contradicted by the question you ask in the poll. Why cant singh or kaur be your surname and family name whats the difference.

[Pyara]

I use my "caste" or family given surname on official documents out of shear laziness. I haven't officially changed my surname to Singh through deed poll yet so any official document has my surname, my bank accounts, property deeds, passport, driving licence etc.

It's a bit hypocritical, I don't mention my caste/family surname when involved in the Gurdwara activities but officially it's still there.

Anyways, how to change your official surname to Singh/Kaur : http://www.deedpoll.org.uk/

[punjabisoul6]

i now there is no concept of caste system in sikhism, but sadly in reality, it's roots are very deep. there are only few ppl. who don't add thier caste after singh/kaur. sad but very much true.

[dalsingh101]

Like I said, from my experience merely having removed the surname doesn't necessarily mean the person is not caste preoccupied, even if in secret. I think removing the name is no guarantee that the person will move beyond caste.

Instead of focusing on the external issue, I think maybe more concentration should be placed on explaining why caste is not positive for the Sikh community. The caste brigade have a bunch of tricks they use to justify their stance (i.e. this isn't caste, it's race etc. etc.), people who are anti caste should tackle that first.

Then, once the idea of a casteless society becomes truly accepted, people will naturally want to remove their caste labels.

[mundasingh123]

Like I said, from my experience merely having removed the surname doesn't necessarily mean the person is not caste preoccupied, even if in secret. I think removing the name is no guarantee that the person will move beyond caste.

Instead of focusing on the external issue, I think maybe more concentration should be placed on explaining why caste is not positive for the Sikh community. The caste brigade have a bunch of tricks they use to justify their stance (i.e. this isn't caste, it's race etc. etc.), people who are anti caste should tackle that first.

Then, once the idea of a casteless society becomes truly accepted, people will naturally want to remove their caste labels.

The extent to which caste system is entrenched among so called "SIKHS" can be gauged from an incident i experienced at Baba Nidhan Singh Ji da Darbar,Huzoor Saheb Nanded when some illiterate "educated" Mohna Sikh was telling me "Jatta wala Sah hona chahida" .That too in front of the slab with the commandments handed down to us by Dasam Pitah Patshahi Sahib Sri Guru Gobind singh Ji Maharaj.This happened over some minor issue that would only reflect upon the lack of education of this gentleman.

Also I was going some forum named after Jatt*** with the Khalsa Nishan serving as the Forum Logo.There was some Singh who was trying to convince the Forum Owner to remove the Khalsa Nishan which cannot be representative of any 1 particular Caste.Some fool posted a reply which goes something like this "Had we Jatts not been there,Sikhism would cease to exist and "finish" .If we are there,Sikhism is there"

This stupid statement outrageous statement should have incited anger of the forum members who might have read the thread but no one posted any comment rebuking this fool.

Yet, there was 1 guy who said "Its not right of us to say something like this."It was a very mild response compared to the outrageousness of the post .

[geo]

i couldnt answer your poll because none of the choices apply to me so i will give my answer here. you should modify the answers so everyone can answer.

i generally use singh as my last name. i dont believe in the caste system. since coming to the uk in the 80's my parents always used singh as last name as did everyone who was in our community nearby. i dont know why but thats the way it always was. so i have always used singh. my close friends know my last last name, i am not proud of it nor am i ashamed of it - it is just a name. i dont use it now because of negative connotations because of recent wars.

i am born into a jatt family but that has no good or bad meaning for me and i do not think myself higher or lower than any other caste or person or religion or colour.

it is time to get rid of caste and racism and sexism and homophobia and all other prejudices.

think hard - do any of you have any prejudices? then when you get rid of them you will be on the first step to getting rid of the caste prejudices.