An Inside Look Into The 5 Vikaars

[AvnitK]

Waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh guru pyareo

So me and a friend of mine were talking about the 5 vikaars(vices), kaam, krodh, lobh, moh, and ahankar...and were talking about how if we didnt have any of these 5 vikkars we woudnt be human at all,

- like how if we didnt have kaam(lust) then the world wouldnt have population like as in if we didnt have a sexual desire children wouldnt be born,

- if we didnt have krodh(anger) then we wouldnt protect protect ourselves like when someone would come and try to hurt your family or rob your house you wouldnt have the desire to go and help,

-my personal favorite is lobh(greedy), like if we didnt have lobh then we wouldnt even feel the need to do nitnem or any other type of need to get closer to waheguru, because why do we do all of these things? of course theres a greed inside us to go to sachkhand or please the guru or look good in society.

- If we didnt have moh(attachment) a mother wouldnt take care of her child , if u cant love a human being then u cant love gods creation basically stating that you wouldnt even have a love for waheguru himself,

- which also leads to ahankar(ego) , look at it this way if you have an ego about the world you are living in then you would have a mind setting that this is my world, basically saying if we werent proud of the earth we wouldnt be concerned about stopping global warming also stoping poverty.

ego and attachment to me are almost the same which is why its confusing but difference is more of showing off about something while attachment is more about showing your love for something or someone.

this was an interesting topic that i really had to share with the sangat, and would love to see you views on this as well

Waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh jii

[puneetkaur]

Loved the post esp these lines

lobh(greedy), like if we didnt have lobh then we wouldnt even feel the need to do nitnem or any other type of need to get closer to waheguru, because why do we do all of these things? of course theres a greed inside us to go to sachkhand or please the guru or look good in society.

Thanks for sharing jio

[VanHelsingh]

I think the Kaam vikaar - as you've described it - is less to do with eliminating lust 100% so that we can't reproduce, but more to do with controlling those annoying habits such as wandering eyes or constantly thinking about females or even an unhealthy obsession with the act of sex.

Let's face it. As men, we're not going to continue to have kids for every decade of our adult life, are we? Once we've contributed to the process of childbirth in our 20's or 30's, there's other avenues through which we can divert our attention, i.e. spiritual matters of worth. If as a 60 or 70 year old guy, you're still gagging for "it", then you've obviously not understood what the faith expects of us.

Of course, I'm talking about normal family men in the above instance. I'm well aware that brahmgyanis and other highly spiritual people are cut from a different cloth, and as such their lives are different to ours.

As with all the examples you've given, you've taken them to the extreme. There's a balance that needs to be kept, as well as taking into consideration such issues as the passage of time, etc. For example, with Moh, nobody is saying don't love your kids. But I think what we've been instructed is not to create an imbalance in your life so that EVERYTHING is focused on Moh to the detriment of other duties we must perform as members of the human race.

With Hankaar, you obviously need that drive to succeed and be better than your peers, whether it be in business or academics. If you don't believe you're going to succeed or that you're the best of the bunch, nobody else is going to take much notice. But then there's the other side of the coin where - and this is the point I think Gurbani is trying to make - where ego manifests itself in a manner that you begin to consider yourself superior to your fellow man, either due to accumulated riches, or even something as basic as good looks, a nice house, a large income, a belief that you are somehow better than another person because of your supposed higher caste, etc. That Hankaar is what we must not fall victim to.

Of course, anyone who has reached that high level of spirituality will tell you that ALL degrees of these vikaars must eventually be conquered. Well, I guess if that's the case then I suppose it must be done no matter how illogical we think it might be.

[Azaad]

the panj vikaar are not there to be destroyed...They are more like 5 dogs which we have to put a leash on so that we can control.

[Singh559]

I think Bhai Sukha Singh explains it well and i think Azaad veerji is right.

[AvnitK]

I agree with Azaad veerji as well, like yes we know that it is said that '5 vikarran ton bacho" but it doesnt say ki get them out completely, like veerji said they have to be controlled, because too much of any of them can destroy you even as a human being let alone by sikhi perspective.

As for examples, i dont think there extreme i just think that there kind of like common sense, those were the first things that came to mind when me and my friend were discussing, moh is attachment and attachment is basically love as in pyaar, and pyaar can be of a spouse, a friend, a sibling, but what came to us first was pyaar of a parent towards his/her children. of course thats why we say these 5 vikarran cant totally be conquered because there still be some sort of each in our daily lives, we only have to control all of them to a point where it doesnt hurt you or your morals in general.

[Only five]

This Shabad is by Guru Arjan Dev Ji in Raag Gauree on Pannaa 274

AstpdI ]

asattapadhee ||

Ashtapadee:

imiQAw nwhI rsnw prs ]

mithhiaa naahee rasanaa paras ||

One whose tongue does not touch falsehood;

mn mih pRIiq inrMjn drs ]

man mehi preeth nira(n)jan dharas ||

whose mind is filled with love for the Blessed Vision of the Pure Lord,

pr iqRA rUpu n pyKY nyqR ]

par thria roop n paekhai naethr ||

whose eyes do not gaze upon the beauty of others' wives,

swD kI thl sMqsMig hyq ]

saadhh kee ttehal sa(n)thasa(n)g haeth ||

who serves the Holy and loves the Saints' Congregation,

krn n sunY kwhU kI inMdw ]

karan n sunai kaahoo kee ni(n)dhaa ||

whose ears do not listen to slander against anyone,

sB qy jwnY Awps kau mMdw ]

sabh thae jaanai aapas ko ma(n)dhaa ||

who deems himself to be the worst of all,

gur pRswid ibiKAw prhrY ]

gur prasaadh bikhiaa pareharai ||

who, by Guru's Grace, renounces corruption,

mn kI bwsnw mn qy trY ]

man kee baasanaa man thae ttarai ||

who banishes the mind's evil desires from his mind,

ieMdRI ijq pMc doK qy rhq ]

ei(n)dhree jith pa(n)ch dhokh thae rehath ||

who conquers his sexual instincts and is free of the five sinful passions

nwnk koit mDy ko AYsw Aprs ]1]

naanak kott madhhae ko aisaa aparas ||1||

- O Nanak, among millions, there is scarcely one such 'touch-nothing Saint'. ||1||