Beadbi Of Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaaj To Take Place

[gurdssingh]

Satkaar sevadars are doing a great job. However, I feel they need to also educate the masses like Ekam has highlighted. Majority of amritdharis will beaware of the sandesh'sand hukamnamas from akal takht sahib. But, if where honest most people in the UK who identify themselves as sikhs are not amritdhari, there more Punjabi than Sikh. They wouldn't dream of offending the religion, most if not all hold the upmost respect for SGGS Ji and Sikhi.

They wouldn't know it is wrong to have parties in the Gurdwara owned community centres as they would think there seperate entities. They would know its not allowed in the gurdwara langar hall but don't realise that if the community centre is owned by the gurdwara then its like the same thing. Also many people have Akhand paths at home so they would think its ok to take SGGS to a reception venue to have the religious ceremony. They don't know that its is wrong to take maharaj saroop to places where there is alcohol ,meat, cigs etc. If the wider Sikh community who are not amritdhari were to be informed that its totally wrong and prohibated then they would not do these things. It's because of there lack of knowledge that they do it not intentionally to offend Sikhi. So there really needs to be an awarness campaign across the UK. Firstly informing the gurdwara commitees of the correct protocols as some may also be unaware. The sandesh's such as community centres, taking maharaj saroop to reception venues, etc. need to be up in English and Punjabi in every Gurdwara. If the Gurdwara is uneducated then what is the average UK Sikh meant to do as they will go to there Gurdwara for guidance and arrange the wedding etc. If they are made aware then the intended beadbi will not even start in motion.

[ekam]

My word, you are a slippery customer aren't you? Playing both sides and then hoping someone quotes "wonderful Gurbani" in order to prove you wrong? You mean Guru Amar Das Ji's composition which clearly defines the Sikhi position on alcohol?

Also, nothing was misinterpreted. If your personal opinion was what you truly believed, you wouldn't be suggesting that the odd glass of wine is permissable. Are you saying you were playing Devil's Advocate? Please.

It is a shame that your posts are underlined with an attack on character, when in fact you know nothing about me.

And it is a greater shame that you continue to misinterpret my posts, mistaking neutrality with 'playing both sides' and worse still, mistaking the interest in Gurbani as some sort of sinister cue? I am glad you pointed out Guru Amar Das ji's composition as I hope it will make those who did not know if it aware..??? I myself am not familiar so if it serves to educate me and to help reinforce my convictions, is that not positive progression??

You think because I questioned the notion of an amritdhari having a glass of wine, that it suggests I endorse the practice?? If anything, I could not be more strongly against it, but in neutrality, one can learn a lot from both sides, because from this is when the best arguments for and against are put forward.

Why is it difficult to discuss openly, instead of making assumptions?

[VanHelsingh]

Mr. Ekam, if you were genuinely against the consumption of alcohol - as a Sikh - you would not entertain the notion that drinking alcohol is acceptable. The issue wouldn't even be on your radar no matter how spiritually pious the drinker is. There is nothing to debate in this instance. One glass, half a glass, half a keg, 100 kegs - it doesn't matter because it is all alcohol.

Also, I apologise if my previous posts slipped into "character attack" territory. It's something I'm working to improve.

[ekam]

Thank you Gurdssingh, I'm glad you understand the perspective, and I hope the understanding would extend to others.

It definitely is all about educating and informing people. The truth of the world is, that whether Amritdhari or not, there are people who are misguided, and the way to inform them is not through making assumptions about them, but instead taking encouraging progressive discourse.

I have followed this forum for quite some time, and learnt a lot of good from it - and the first time I have decided to post, and to voice my opinion for further progression and understanding, I am subject to negative assumptions about my so called intentions?

Nice.

[VanHelsingh]

I have followed this forum for quite some time, and learnt a lot of good from it - and the first time I have decided to post, and to voice my opinion for further progression and understanding, I am subject to negative assumptions about my so called intentions?

Nice.

Alright, don't milk it. I admit I possibly jumped the gun.

Although my intuition is telling me you're most likely a Mr. Medare supporter, I'll take your word for it that you're just here for the debate.

[ekam]

Mr. Ekam, if you were genuinely against the consumption of alcohol - as a Sikh - you would not entertain the notion that drinking alcohol is acceptable. The issue wouldn't even be on your radar no matter how spiritually pious the drinker is. There is nothing to debate in this instance. One glass, half a glass, half a keg, 100 kegs - it doesn't matter because it is all alcohol.

Also, I apologise if my previous posts slipped into "character attack" territory. It's something I'm working to improve upon and that's my problem.

The point is, alcohol is just a peripheral component in the debate - hence I am not endorsing it, I am simply using the example to illustrate the wider argument that whether the person is an Amritdhari or not, there are many misguided souls and our problems extend beyond the consumption of alcohol, it stems from self interest and perhaps ignorance. Which is why I stated I do not defend Medare's comments, but feel that there bigger issues facing the community.

Upon reading other posts of his there are many (if not all) viewpoints of his that I do not agree with personally. But would much prefer they are fairly debated, without the assumption that to query the existence of something is to condone it.

[SinghWarrior]

Satkaar sevadars are doing a great job. However, I feel they need to also educate the masses like Ekam has highlighted.

Why are you looking to Satkaar Sevadaars only to do Gursikhi Parchaar? It's each of our duties to do this. If we all did Kamar-Kassa and were "Jaagrat", we wouldn't have these problems. Our community has a tendency to turn a blind eye on wrong things, if it doesn't affect us individually - it's easier to say it's someone else's problem than take responsibility for resolving it. This attitude has led us to where we are now, where people like Mr Medare think because something wrong has been going on for 30 years, then it must be acceptable.

JAAGO SINGHO JAAGO!

[ekam]

Alright, don't milk it. I admit I possibly jumped the gun.

Although my intuition is telling me you're most likely a Mr. Medare supporter, I'll take your word for it that you're just here for the debate.

With all respect and without reacting negatively to your statements - follow your intuition,so that you can learn from your own mistakes.

[VanHelsingh]

With all respect and without reacting negatively to your statements - follow your intuition,so that you can learn from your own mistakes.

Okay, steady on Mr. Ekam. I'm welling up here...

I hope you extend your foray into the waters of sikhsangat.com and make it a prolonged excursion. It will be interesting to hear your opinions on other issues facing our faith. Don't disappear with our friend Mr. Medare.

[ekam]

Okay, steady on Mr. Ekam. I'm welling up here...

I hope you extend your foray into the waters of sikhsangat.com and make it a prolonged excursion. It will be interesting to hear your opinions on other issues facing our faith. Don't disappear with our friend Mr. Medare.

I welcome your invitation (may not be the right word) to continue on the forum and I fully intend to - both to learn and to contribute