Destiny And Ardaas

[Consciousness]

Vaheguru! I'm afraid I'm no where near your level of understanding of Gurbanee and the world Veerji, you're going to have to break it up for this moorakh sister of yours and explain somewhat simply! I can't get my head around such deep thoughts, only a beginner!

Forgive me for my lack of understanding.

Penji I am the dust of your feet your understanding is millions of times more advanced than mine. Anyway I was thinking of giving you a panjabi katha to listen to - how are your punjabi skills?

[sabnakeerenka]

Penji I am the dust of your feet your understanding is millions of times more advanced than mine. Anyway I was thinking of giving you a panjabi katha to listen to - how are your punjabi skills?

Oh thank you so much! I can understand Punjabi! I really appreciate you going out of your way to help me understand this concept Veerjee. Maharaj Kirpa Karan!

[Consciousness]

Please listen to Giani Takhur Singh's katha on atam gian from suraj prakash bhai sahib bhai kavi santokh singh. Here are the first 5 parts.

http://www.gurmatveechar.com/audios/Katha/02_Present_Day_Katha/Giani_Thakur_Singh_%28Patiala_wale%29/Aatam_Giaan/Giani.Thakur.Singh--Aatam.Giaan.Part.01.mp3

http://www.gurmatveechar.com/audios/Katha/02_Present_Day_Katha/Giani_Thakur_Singh_%28Patiala_wale%29/Aatam_Giaan/Giani.Thakur.Singh--Aatam.Giaan.Part.02.mp3

http://www.gurmatveechar.com/audios/Katha/02_Present_Day_Katha/Giani_Thakur_Singh_%28Patiala_wale%29/Aatam_Giaan/Giani.Thakur.Singh--Aatam.Giaan.Part.03.mp3

http://www.gurmatveechar.com/audios/Katha/02_Present_Day_Katha/Giani_Thakur_Singh_%28Patiala_wale%29/Aatam_Giaan/Giani.Thakur.Singh--Aatam.Giaan.Part.04.mp3

http://www.gurmatveechar.com/audios/Katha/02_Present_Day_Katha/Giani_Thakur_Singh_%28Patiala_wale%29/Aatam_Giaan/Giani.Thakur.Singh--Aatam.Giaan.Part.05.mp3

[TheFancyBanana]

so all the bad things you'll do are written by god? so if someone drinks alcohol.. god wants them to?

[Consciousness]

so all the bad things you'll do are written by god? so if someone drinks alcohol.. god wants them to?

Listen to the katha and I mean all 35 odd parts. If you understand it then you'll get an answer to your question.

[SheikhFareed]

so all the bad things you'll do are written by god? so if someone drinks alcohol.. god wants them to?

Using just Bani which we cant go against. Here is thukhs for interest for you.

sBu ikCu Awpy Awip hY dUjw Avru n koie ]

sabh kishh aapae aap hai dhoojaa avar n koe ||

He Himself is everything; there is no other at all.

ijau bolwey iqau bolIAY jw Awip bulwey soie ]

jio bolaaeae thio boleeai jaa aap bulaaeae soe ||

I speak just as He makes me speak, when He Himself makes me speak.

gurmuiK bwxI bRhmu hY sbid imlwvw hoie ]

guramukh baanee breham hai sabadh milaavaa hoe ||

The Word of the Gurmukh is God Himself. Through the Shabad, we merge in Him.

The above shows everything is in Gods hukam.

The below makes it clear Hes the 1 who takes people away too.

iek QY piV buJY sBu Awpy iek QY Awpy kry ieAwxy ]

eik thhai parr bujhai sabh aapae eik thhai aapae karae eiaanae ||

In one place, He teaches them to read and understand everything, while in another place, He Himself makes them ignorant.

also;

krm sukrm krwey Awpy Awpy Bgiq idRVwmM ]

The Lord Himself causes them to do good and bad deeds; He Himself makes them steadfast in devotional worship.

Awpy swjy isRsit aupwey isir isir DMDY lweI ]4]

He Himself fashions and creates the creation; He links each and every person to their task. ||4||

ieik dwqy ieik mMgqy kIqy Awpy Bgiq krweI ]8]

Some are made givers, and some are made beggars; He Himself inspires us to devotional worship. ||8||

Awpy duKu suKu pwey AMqir Awpy Brim BulweI ]11]

He Himself infuses pain and pleasure; He Himself makes them wander around in doubt. ||11||

[PAL 07]

Some basic Sikh concepts need to be understood: Briefly:

1) When the individual acts in ego - he is subject to paap and pun and the consequenses are sukh and dukh in many life forms.

2) When the individual reaches his own soul then he/she becomes above paap and pun, hence is no longer subject to dukh and sukh. This state has many names brahm swaroop, atam gyan, brahm gyani, brahm sarotari, tat ka bheta, jot swaroopi etc. Such a person become free from the temptations of maya and becomes jeevan mukhat. Such a person merges with nirgun form of God and is no longer subject to nature and time and space.

3) God has written what will happen for every individual, however good actions and ardas can change this and mitigate for you. What God has written for you is based on your previous karams from previous lives.

4) If a person says it is okay to drink alcohol because God is the doer. Then this is wrong since God isnt the doer the human being is responsible for his actions.

The post in this thread need contexting - so if you see on a higher level God is evrywhere and everything but on as lower level the individual is responsible for his destiny.

[TheFancyBanana]

so in a way, we're like dolls for god and he just plays with us? we have do nothing at all. so whats the point of sending gurus and prophets because god decides who will know him and who wont. even without a prophet people can pray to god.

[SheikhFareed]

I dont understand why you are questioning when the above bani has the answers you are looking for. I cant give an answer like bani has done.

first do you agree with the bani above? what do you think it is saying?

The bani is saying the body is like puppets. I am not saying this without bani.

and the question you asked is easy to answer if you apply the rules of the bani above.

its like saying whats the point of doing simran or whats the point of doing anything. the point is He already chooses which body he wants to do simran. WHich body he wants to find HIm. which he wants to get further. a million times bani talks about pre-ordained destiny. Nothing is our hand anyways.

I dont know the thinking of God or how He works. so I cant say my answer is 100 percent correct. but he chooses which people are to be saved and aslo in which way. who is to be saved by Guru nanak maharaj is already pre ordained. this cant be denied, i just randomly took a shabadh and it said it in that too nwnk gurmuiK so buJY jw kY Bwg mQor ]1]

O Nanak, those who become Gurmukh understand; upon their foreheads is such pre-ordained destiny. ||1||