Sargun Nirgun Nirankar.

[N30S1NGH]

Thanks for your post Bijla Singh, with most parts i agree with your post except nirgun and sargun upasana/advaita - which we already discussed before many times which we can agree to disagree...i also agree i m not good at english, sometimes cannot find right words to describe it. I just wanted to point out my slight clarification the below:

In nirgun, there is only gyan of shabad not shabad itself.

Since God is the only Creator, Shabad is inherent in Him. He created the creation from “Eko Kavao” or Shabad. Gurbani also says:

ਉਤਪਤਿ ਪਰਲਉ ਸਬਦੇ ਹੋਵੈ ॥ ਸਬਦੇ ਹੀ ਫਿਰਿ ਓਪਤਿ ਹੋਵੈ ॥ (117)

ਏਕੋ ਹੁਕਮੁ ਵਰਤੈ ਸਭ ਲੋਈ ॥ ਏਕਸੁ ਤੇ ਸਭ ਓਪਤਿ ਹੋਈ ॥7॥ (223)

Since, creation has come forth from The One and the Shabad, it proves that Shabad and God are One and were so prior to creation. Here Shabad refers to His creative power which is one with Him. Keep in mind that since the creation came from Shabad, it proves that Shabad is not Sargun (creation). This is why worship of Shabad is worship of Nirgun. Further, Shabad is not influenced by maya, hence, Nirgun. In addition, when a true Sikh becomes one with God, he becomes free of maya and attains “Sad Jeevan”. This state is called “Udaas” or Sehaj Padd or Turiya Avastha. This makes a Sikh free from any type of bondage. He is merged in Nirgun at that point while being full of virtues and god-like attributes. This is why Shabad practice is Nirgun worship.

When i said- In nirgun, there is only gyan of shabad not shabad itself i meant before creation (utpati) when there was only nirgun paratam. It's imperative we know this distinction as each one of us will one day will merge back to nirgun paratma (where there is only gyan of shabad). I understand there are different school of thoughts believe otherwise, people can read more about discussion kulbir singh and i had regarding - if one is totally merge with vahiguroo after mukhti and looses its vajood or despite of merging with vahiguroo maintain its vajood - http://www.tapoban.o...p?1,4508,page=1

The gurbani quote you posted make perfect sense:

ਉਤਪਤਿ ਪਰਲਉ ਸਬਦੇ ਹੋਵੈ ॥ ਸਬਦੇ ਹੀ ਫਿਰਿ ਓਪਤਿ ਹੋਵੈ ॥ (117)

ਏਕੋ ਹੁਕਮੁ ਵਰਤੈ ਸਭ ਲੋਈ ॥ ਏਕਸੁ ਤੇ ਸਭ ਓਪਤਿ ਹੋਈ ॥7॥ (223)

Before parloa (creation/destruction), there is only gyan of shabad in nirgun paratma not shabad itself. Shabda (resosance/dhuni etc) its the first thing that transcendent from nirgun paratma upon creation. It's via shabad as gurbani states- ਉਤਪਤਿ ਪਰਲਉ ਸਬਦੇ ਹੋਵੈ - everything is created.

[Bijla Singh]

I understand your point being that Shabad was the first to get created in the process of Sargun. My understanding of concept of Shabad and it being part of creation is different and more in line with Bhai Randhir Singh and Bhai Veer Singh. Perhaps we will discuss Sankalap of Shabad in Gurbani in future. At the end, we are all going towards the same reality and we will know some of it as we progress spiritually. Waheguru is Apar and Beant. Guru Rakha