Bhagat Ravidass And Ravidassias.

[UKLondonSikh]

How can you prove that Congress set this up? They hate dalits lol!

UK = Well spotted sweetshera that the Congress hierarchy despise Dalits but conveniently utilise the Dalit vote bank to economically exploit and ride into power off their blood, sweat and tears. And obviously the majority of Congress MLA's and MP's in Punjab are Jatts. However, I think it is very naive (in the way Ad-dharmi Dera Ballan polemicists would like you to think) if you believe that Dera Ballan and the concept of splitting the Qaum along caste and spiritual lines is anything other than a Congress tactic. Have you ever asked yourself why since Garib Dass took over Dera Ballan in 1982 the Dera became ever increasingly vocal in favour of advising Dera Ballan adherents to vote Congress en bloc just like his Jatt counterparts over at Dera Sirsa and the Radha Swami business empire? At a time when innocent Sikhs were being eliminated in hundreds of thousands and Punjab's economy was in ruins, Garib Dass lived a life of luxury just like his Jatt counterparts at the other Dera's whilst Congress funded certain overt charitable gestures in order to give a veneer of respectability to a Congress pawn in the game against Sikhs. Thereafter, six ex-Ballan adherents who are supposed to have grown their Kes are thereafter alleged to have done the Vienna murder (which I condemn). Who benefitted from the murder? Answer = Congress and their trusted lapdogs who could not wait to have monopoly control over the innocent Sangat's offerings. How convenient that the murder was used as a pretext to remove Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj from multiple Gurdwaray and set up a new sect/religion which will benefit the casteist Hindu shopkeepers of Benares near the supposed Janam Asthan Mandir. Please see the truth bro and don't continue to repeat what the Dera Ballan polemicists want you to say for their own political ends.

Also aint most ravidasi living outside the punjab and they r not sikhs?

That's the thing sweetshera as someone who is not from the community in question yourself who are you to say that our brothers and sisters from the same background outside of Punjab are not Sikh? I consider them Sikh and I hope that you would also see the virtue in a 100 million people being united to fight for justice and end to discimination on all levels. If Giani Ditt Singh was capable enough to lead the Singh Sabha and Shaheed Baba Sangat was capable enough to lead the Sikh Fauj ... who is to say what could be achieved if Sikhs can eradicate the caste system in Punjab first as per the founding of the Khalsa Panth in 1699, then unity with our oppressed sisters and brothers outside Punjab can begin to eradicate the caste system in the rest of India (where obviously it was practised on a far worse scale than Punjab - which begins to seem like an oasis of peace in relative terms). The key thing to remember is that the 80% of Jatts who are Muslim and Hindu and who rejoiced at how the Jatts were so prominent in killing off innocent Sikhs in 1947 and 1984 despise Chamars openly and would never bow down to the words of Dhan Dhan (Guru) Ravidas Ji Maharaj. This is something that needs to be explained to fools from all castes who think that the whole world revolves around the Doaba region.

[UKLondonSikh]

598 = Satguru gave equal respect to the Satguru's of all the 15 bhagats and gave equality to all the different castes.

598 Now the Balla wale Sant that were killed were many times told not to offend Sikhs by sitting on a equal palaquin to the Guru Granth Sahib. He showed arrogance and was quite righly killed.

UK = The thing to remember bro is making a martyr out of someone such as SurajMani or this fake Ramnand only strengthens the convictions of their adherents. But granted, the murderers in Vienna were all previously Ballan adherents who conveniently grew kes at the time of the murder in order to denigrate the Khalsa Panth. How convenient that at Dera Ballan they state Amritdhari Sikh terrorists on their placard tomb when such a term is a misnomer. No Sikh can be Amritdhari and a terrorist.

598 = The next sant at Balla dera he is doing the same, hence annomisity and quarrel has arose amongts chamars and all Sikhs particularly jatts because they beleive most Sikhs in the punjab as jatts.

UK = We as GurSikhs need to continually stress that 80% of Jatts are proud Muslims and Hindu's as these lies that the enemies of the Panth propagate about us being "Jatt" needed to be combatted head on. Dera Ballan want to appropriate the term Ravidassia for their own political use. The response is for all of us Sikhs to declare ourselves as the only true Ravidassia's out there as we oppose the caste system whereas Dera Ballan propogate as can be seen from their Hindu Chamar (aka Ad-dharmi) only matrimonials and leadership.

598 = When the Ramananda Saint used to sit equal to Guru Granth Sahib he is infact sitting equal to Bhagat Ravidass Ji Maharaj.

UK = Well stated bro. I totally agree.

598 = In my opionion the chamaar community have taken a step backwards and done more damage to further alienate the communities.

UK = Remember it is not the leatherworking ancestry community as a whole - it is the Dera Ballan political machine that is working in tandem with Congress and the RSS on this. In Malwa, saanjhay Gurdwaray are still surviving and you will actually find far more young Amritdhari's whose ancestors were once in occupations related to leather that regard themselves as casteless and GurSikh (just like Giani Ditt Singh who led the Singh Sabha and Shaheed Baba Sangat Singh who led the Sikh Fauj as ordained by Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj) in comparison to other communities. We need to unite the Panth completely with full Unity and full equality under the Nishaan Sahib.

598 = Now Chamaars always look at Sikhs/jatts with particular hatred

UK = With respect bro, your sentence can give the wrong impression. The term Sikh is not freely interchangeable with Jatt. As 80% of Jatts are proud Muslims and Hindu's. Within East Punjab itself no more than 50% of Sikhs are of the Jatt tribal ancestry. However, all enemies of the Sikh Panth and Dera Ballan deliberately try to paint the Qaum as being Jatt which is quite simply an absurd falsehood.

598 = The aim of GOI is to use Dalits to weaken Sikhs of Punjab who are majority jatt and full faith in Sikhism.

UK = See above regarding demographics, that despite the popular misconception no more than 50% of Sikhs are from the ancestry you refer you refer.

598 = I think Sikhs should adopt the philosophy of Sikhism which is to treat all individuals with the same basic tenets of humanity, love and ethics.

UK = 100% agree with that

[UKLondonSikh]

Benti to Admin+Mods ... can this discussion be re-positioned on the What's Happening forum as the majority of forum viewers are guests and are therefore likely to miss this crucial issue which is central to Sikhi moving forward in Chardi Kallah. If we don't address the Dera Ballan threat and wipe out all vestiges of jaath-paath remaining within certain minds before 2021 then Sikhs will be a minority in Punjab at the time of the next census in 8years as the aim of Dera Ballan is take 3 million current Sikhs out of Sikhi by 2021. In terms of the GhalluGhara's the Sikh Panth has faced and is facing from female infanticide and the drugs epidemic, these statistics bear thinking about and collective Sangat action upon.

Thank you

[sweetshera]

Alot of heresay but no actual PROOF, what next? dera sacha sauda supported by bjp? nirankaris supported by congress etc.

The reason this situation arised is because of caste discrimination, lets face it the typical jat cant go a day without cursing the dalits - eg $~@king choora this, chamar that! I think that leaves more impression in the minds and influence more of these people to take on other religions than any dubious heresay links to political parties.

If like them I was not sikh you really think I wud vote badal? lol

[singh598]

The Sikh nation and its institutions need to dialogue with the dera ballan, so far there has been a lack of that and by the governemnt in Punjab. Sweeping this under the carpet will only cause further serious problems in the future and worsen the state of Punjab. In my opionion Dalits should have the right to autonomy and self determination. This is the least that the Hindutva Right wing GOI can do for these downtrodden citizens who they themselves (Vedic traditions/orthodox hinduism) have enslaved for aeons never mind centuries

[singh598]

Alot of heresay but no actual PROOF, what next? dera sacha sauda supported by bjp? nirankaris supported by congress etc.

Geezer go and take a history lesson - Narkdharees were supported by Congress since 1978 Amritsar Massacre

[sweetshera]

Geezer go and take a history lesson - Narkdharees were supported by Congress since 1978 Amritsar Massacre

No provide proof, this thread has been moved into 'Intellectual Discussion' now back up your statement with evidence. You seem the sort of guy who believes in the illuminati/new world order otherwise.

[UKLondonSikh]

Alot of heresay but no actual PROOF, what next? dera sacha sauda supported by bjp? nirankaris supported by congress etc.

I think that leaves more impression in the minds and influence more of these people to take on other religions than any dubious heresay links to political parties.

UK = Lol sweetshera bro, give it a break! It's one thing for you to be the official Dera Ballan mouthpiece on this forum but another altogether for you to insult the forum Sangat's intelligence and try to make anyone seriously doubt whether Gurbachana of 1978 fame was working openly for Congress, as was the very wealthy Garib Dass of Dera Ballan. Next you'll be saying that Jatts like KPS Gill and General Brar and Ram Rahim of Sirsa have no Congress sympathies, presumably? Don't tell me, you oppose the Anandpur Sahib resolution and you think of Bhai Rajoana as a terrorist too, right?

[daljitkhankhana]

Where public believes truth serves known Sach Khans that is in village ball.

[daljitkhankhana]

What is truth? Anybody from any sector of society approached for support, medically or educationally, respected as human and honours as human lb sera dachshund ball.