Guru Nanak Dev Sahib - Born Mukth or Not?

[Only five]

Gurbani is the objective truth, no doubt. However the question should be if gurbani has always presented the truth ie aad sach jugad sach hepi sach etc then why do people have different interpretations and commentary about gurbani? I'll tell you bhai sahib it is because they believe they are objectively correct and you are just the same.

People in the past believed in a flat Earth and the Earth as the center of the universe. At that time these were subjective truths in the same way your interpretation of gurbani are like those people.

How educated are you? I ask this because you don't even know how to make a comparision. You say im like the people who said the world is flat. How could this be when we have Gurbani saying Satguru is Sri Vaheguru Ji Maharaj himself. Which i am basing my understanding on. What did those people who said the world is flat have as evidence? They had a religious text that was not written by the prophet they worship. By making this foolish comparison you equated Gurbani to any religious text written, which was not written by the prophet they so claimed was God and worship. Nice...........you are very educated on Gurbani. :stupidme: :stupidme: Gurbani says it so straight forward that Satguru Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji Maharaj is Sri Vaheguru Ji Maharaj himself, that there is no intrepretation needed. All you need to do is read and accept.

Right now i don't have the time to repeate what has already beem established 100 times on this thread. So instead of spoon feeding the educated. The educated ones should search this forum for these threads. Or go straight to the source and present Gurbani here.

When it comes to rehat these same people want others to present Gurbani to back up Rehat. Now we are talking about Satguru, they are running and hiding from presenting Gurbani. Is there a point to have a discussion with such a person?

You have no respect for Guru Sahib..........which means you won't have respect for me in anyway. Don't expect me to respond to your post. You are perfect where you are and those that follow your lead will end up in the same spot.

[Only five]

But the point about yearning, I have never thought about before.

My own view is that we are all waheguroo, but we do not know it. Guru Nanak Sahib knew it upon birth. He was without ego, but it is just like God playing an act out. the same way we act and move like puppets without realising the truth through our own ignorence which is gurparsad, so truly its down to God that he choses, so we cant do anything really. nothing in the end its our own choice.

So yeh back to this point about yearning, this is interesting, but say if someone is sant, and they do simran etc, again maybe they are doing it so the followers wont go astray.

Imagine if Guru Sahib ji came and preached but then themselves did not be seen meditating. then people will think this guys a fake etc. so all these acts was to ensure followers were to do as Guru said and did themselves.

Sorry, my english is sometimes poor so i dont know if this makes sense above as I was born and brought up in India as a child. please forgive this slave of sangat.

You need to present Gurbani, here. No one is going to accept what you say without Gurbani. Well the once that hate rehat will accept what you said without Gurbani, but won't accept rehat without presenting Gurbani. We live in a backwards world, but that doesn't give us the right to say something on Satguru without presenting Gurbani.

People always cry, why are Sikhs so disconnected from each other. They are disconnected because everyone has an opinion and doesn't go on Gurbani. So and so Baba said this so and so Baba said that. These kinds of statements are just as good as a first grade student of Sikhi claiming he is God because God is in everything, hence i don't need to follow Gurbani, Hukams, or Bhai Gurdas Ji Vaars.

[SheikhFareed]

Sorry I dont understand what you mean?

I also believe Guroo was God, this is in Bani many times, I can quote it if you want. He knew he was God, there was no seperation or ego.

You are sidetracking this thread to about who satguroo is. The original idea was to start fresh healthy debate about was Guroo born mukhth or was achieved in His life later in the river etc?

this is not argument, it is intellectual debate section...to see what sadsangat thinks. not just one view is always right.

[Consciousness]

They had a religious text that was not written by the prophet they worship. By making this foolish comparison you equated Gurbani to any religious text written, which was not written by the prophet they so claimed was God and worship. Nice...........you are very educated on Gurbani.

No I didn't! I compared YOUR understanding of gurbani to those outdated ideas of people. Your doing it again YOU ARE CONFUSING THE NIRGUN (WHICH IS ALWAYS REALISED) WITH THE SARGUN.. Please please try not lie. I know it is a difficult habit but please try. Stop, think and think again and then write your posts.

The rest of Sheikhfareed's post answers what you wrote to me. I'll post what he wrote for your reference again. Sorry I dont understand what you mean?

I also believe Guroo was God, this is in Bani many times, I can quote it if you want. He knew he was God, there was no seperation or ego.

You are sidetracking this thread to about who satguroo is. The original idea was to start fresh healthy debate about was Guroo born mukhth or was achieved in His life later in the river etc?

this is not argument, it is intellectual debate section...to see what sadsangat thinks. not just one view is always right.

[Only five]

No I didn't! I compared YOUR understanding of gurbani to those outdated ideas of people. Your doing it again YOU ARE CONFUSING THE NIRGUN (WHICH IS ALWAYS REALISED) WITH THE SARGUN.. Please please try not lie. I know it is a difficult habit but please try. Stop, think and think again and then write your posts.

Gurbani directly says Satguru is Sri Vaheguru Ji Maharaj himself, since Satguru took for as Nanak. There is no intrepretation needed here. So yeah.....you don't know what Gurbani is saying and then without knowing made a baseless comparison. Here i will give you an example. Satguru says: Ikonkar. I repeat this in a discussion where a person says how many Gods are there. Now a completely ignorant person would say............no this is your understanding of Gurbani. Even though Gurbani says Ikonkar, the ignorant and non-believer would fight against Gurbani; Ikonkar.

The original idea was to start fresh healthy debate about was Guroo born mukhth or was achieved in His life later in the river etc?

this is not argument, it is intellectual debate section...to see what sadsangat thinks. not just one view is always right.

Only problem you have here, is that i am challenging your opinion on this topic.

[Guest pratannanak]

Its a very good question. from my understanding guru nanak was parmatma in a physical form...why guru went in a river for a few days then came out i cont say.. but what is very interesting is what maharaj said when he came out of the river.. the mool mantar..you may think was guru nanak a simple man and when he came out the river a mukht bhram gyan.. personally i see gurur nanak as parmatma.. but if you dont, just recite what guru nanak recited when he came out of the river...

its hard to explain from my example.. so i would actually recommend you listen to jap ji sahib katha.. you can listen to sant maskeen singh ji or giani takhur singh ji.. or read in english from bhai Neo Singh who has translated jap ji sahib katha by giani thakur singh ji in english...it will give you an idea of who guru nanak is and more importantly who you are. in relation to guru nanak dev ji . Fateh

[Consciousness]

Guru Nanak Dev Ji's Enlightenment by Osho

When Nanak disappeared in the river, the story goes that he stood before the gate of God. He

experienced God. There before his eyes stood the beloved he pined for, for whom he sang night

and day. He who had become the thirst of his every heartbeat stood revealed before Nanak! All his

desires were fulfilled. Then God spoke to him, ”Now go back and give unto others what I have given

unto you.” The Japuji is Nanak’s first offering after he returned from God.

Now, this is a story; what it symbolizes must be understood. First, unless you lose yourself

completely, until you die, you cannot hope to meet God. Whether you lose yourself in a river or

on a mountaintop is of little consequence; but you must die. Your annihilation becomes his being.

As long as you are, he cannot be. You are the obstacle, the wall that separates you. This is the

symbolic meaning of drowning in the river.

You too will have to lose yourself; you too will have to drown. Death is only completed after three

days, because the ego does not give up easily. The three days in Nanak’s story represent the time

required for his ego to dissolve completely. Since the people could only see the ego and not the

soul, they thought Nanak was dead.

Whenever a person becomes a sannyasin and sets out on the quest for God, the family members

understand and give him up for dead. Now he is no longer the same person; the old links are broken,

the past is no more, and the new has dawned. Between the old and the new is a vast gap; hence

this symbol of three days before Nanak’s reappearance.

The one who is lost invariably returns, but he returns as new. He who treads the path most certainly

returns. While he was on the path he was thirsty, but when he returns he is a benefactor; he has

The True Name.

[Bundha]

The three days in Nanak’s story represent the time required for his ego to dissolve completely. Since the people could only see the ego and not the soul, they thought Nanak was dead.

Guru Nanak Dev Ji was one with Akaal, there is no difference between the two.

“Har Har-jan doiy ekh hey bib bichaar kar naai. . . . . . . ” God and God-realized are both the same there is no debate about it.

Then how can Guru Ji have ego? Ego is crawling under Guru Ji’s charan.

Guru Ji gave us the Gurmantra which was created over four yugas, only one who is One could do this.

This is all a play/khade of Akaal and all things happen according to His will. When Guru Arjan dev Ji sat on the taavi could they not have changed this so that they did not have to do this? Yes they could have. When Guru Gobind Singh Ji had to leave anandpur Sahib and they had to wonder alone in Machiwara jungle could they not have changed this? Yes they could have. But they followed Akaals hukam, because this is the khade that they were in, anyways how could our ithaas have been written if Guru Ji had waved his hand and annihilated the enemy forces. .

In the same way Guru Ji was one with Akaal when they came to this world, they came to this world to partake in the khade as realised by Akaal, and if this meant they had to have a yearning for Him in Guru Jis early years then so be it, this was to teach us the way and not any shortcomings on their part.

[SheikhFareed]

yes true. everyone has mostly agreed that God is Guroo and Guroo is God.

But was he born with all the kalaa?

[Only five]

Guru Nanak Dev Ji's Enlightenment by Osho

When Nanak disappeared in the river, the story goes that he stood before the gate of God. He

experienced God. There before his eyes stood the beloved he pined for, for whom he sang night

and day. He who had become the thirst of his every heartbeat stood revealed before Nanak! All his

desires were fulfilled. Then God spoke to him, ”Now go back and give unto others what I have given

unto you.” The Japuji is Nanak’s first offering after he returned from God.

Now, this is a story; what it symbolizes must be understood. First, unless you lose yourself

completely, until you die, you cannot hope to meet God. Whether you lose yourself in a river or

on a mountaintop is of little consequence; but you must die. Your annihilation becomes his being.

As long as you are, he cannot be. You are the obstacle, the wall that separates you. This is the

symbolic meaning of drowning in the river.

You too will have to lose yourself; you too will have to drown. Death is only completed after three

days, because the ego does not give up easily. The three days in Nanak’s story represent the time

required for his ego to dissolve completely. Since the people could only see the ego and not the

soul, they thought Nanak was dead.

Whenever a person becomes a sannyasin and sets out on the quest for God, the family members

understand and give him up for dead. Now he is no longer the same person; the old links are broken,

the past is no more, and the new has dawned. Between the old and the new is a vast gap; hence

this symbol of three days before Nanak’s reappearance.

The one who is lost invariably returns, but he returns as new. He who treads the path most certainly

returns. While he was on the path he was thirsty, but when he returns he is a benefactor; he has

The True Name.

Where are you getting these stories from and then adding your own theories to it. You need to stop lying here. Present Gurbani not some theory you just came up with. Where is the objective truth in your theory............nowhere, so why do you continue to spread your lies here?

Some people..........want everyone to bow to their half baked theories and call Bha Gurdas Ji Vaars as false. Truly this is Kalyug........will be waiting what other half baked theories they come up with.