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Guru Nanak Dev Sahib - Born Mukth or Not?


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yes true. everyone has mostly agreed that God is Guroo and Guroo is God.

But was he born with all the kalaa?

Seems like you have already picked a side here and are only looking for post that back up your theory. Its very easy to make up theories, but the hard part is to bring Gurbani (not one tuk to back up your theory) that says it as it is.

there are 3 pages of theories, when is your side going to stop presenting theories and actually present objective truth. You might believe i am picking on you, but that is not the case. Like you said this is a intellectual discussion, so why not present intellectual thoughts that are supported by Gurbani?

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Then how can Guru Ji have ego? Ego is crawling under Guru Ji’s charan.

Guru Nanak Dev Ji was one with Akaal, there is no difference between the two.

“Har Har-jan doiy ekh hey bib bichaar kar naai. . . . . . . ” God and God-realized are both the same there is no debate about it.

Prior to enlightenment they had ego but after enlightenment (after river incident) they had no acquaintance with the ego. They became mukht from the ego - brahmgian.

Same applies for anyone who gets brahmgian:

'bramgiani aap pramesar'

But before any saint realises they were always God they have an ego. Ego meaning the false sense of separation from god. When one has ego he/she fears death in the sense that it is there end (one without ego knows they are eternal)

The physician asked Nanak what he himself thought his illness was. Nanak replied:--

I first feel the pain of separation from God,
then a pang of hunger for contemplation on Him.

I also fear the pain which Death's powerful myrmidons may inflict.

I feel pain that my body shall perish by disease.

O ignorant physician, give me no medicine.

Such medicine as thou hast, my friend, removeth not

The pain I feel or the continued suffering of my body.

I forgot God and devoted myself to pleasure

Then this bodily illness befell me.

The wicked heart is punished.

Ignorant physician, give me no medicine.

As sandal is useful when it exhaleth perfume,

As man is useful as long as he hath breath in his body,

So when the breath departeth, the body crumbleth away and becometh useless:

No one taketh medicine after that.

[1. Malâr ki Wâr.]

{p. 28}

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Prior to enlightenment they had ego but after enlightenment (after river incident) they had no acquaintance with the ego. They became mukht from the ego - brahmgian.

Guru Ji had spent four yuga’s contemplating on God and had become one with Him, through this contemplation came the Waheguru shabad. When Guru Ji went into the river and appeared before Akaal they were already one and the same, He gave Guru Ji His mission.

I first feel the pain of separation from God, then a pang of hunger for contemplation on Him.

I also fear the pain which Death's powerful myrmidons may inflict.

I feel pain that my body shall perish by disease.

What we need to understand is that the updaysh given in shabads are for our benefit, they are showing us the way. In many shabads Guru Ji says they are the lowest of the low, the worst of the worst, but were they worst of the worst ? No, this is for our benefit. If Guru Ji had said ‘you are the worst of the worst’ then we would back off and again start criticizing, to avoid this Guru Ji takes it all on themselves, to teach us. When Guru Ji says ‘I fear the pain of death’ Guru Ji is really saying we (you and me, the world at large) fear the pain of death, Guru Ji did not fear death, Guru Ji was/is beyond death.

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Guru Ji had spent four yuga’s contemplating on God and had become one with Him, through this contemplation came the Waheguru shabad. When Guru Ji went into the river and appeared before Akaal they were already one and the same, He gave Guru Ji His mission.

Where did you get this; source please?

What we need to understand is that the updaysh given in shabads are for our benefit, they are showing us the way. In many shabads Guru Ji says they are the lowest of the low, the worst of the worst, but were they worst of the worst ? No, this is for our benefit. If Guru Ji had said ‘you are the worst of the worst’ then we would back off and again start criticizing, to avoid this Guru Ji takes it all on themselves, to teach us. When Guru Ji says ‘I fear the pain of death’ Guru Ji is really saying we (you and me, the world at large) fear the pain of death, Guru Ji did not fear death, Guru Ji was/is beyond death.

The worst of worst and the lowest of the low they are referring to the ego. Guru ji does NOT take it all on themselves that is like FAKE NIMRATA. Gurbani is the truth; guru ji would not lie by confusing 'you' with 'I'. When guru ji saw the physician he was clearly referring to HIS pain at that time prior to enlightenment. Guru ji later realised his mool and find out he was beyond birth and death but this was post enlightenment.

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The worst of worst and the lowest of the low they are referring to the ego. Guru ji does NOT take it all on themselves that is like FAKE NIMRATA. Gurbani is the truth; guru ji would not lie by confusing 'you' with 'I'. When guru ji saw the physician he was clearly referring to HIS pain at that time prior to enlightenment. Guru ji later realised his mool and find out he was beyond birth and death but this was post enlightenment.

Before you ask another for references. You need to present your reference for your opinions. Its obviously you have an agenda here.............started two threads on the same topic. Right now i don't have the time make it picture clear that Satguru Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji Maharaj was/is Sri Vaheguru Ji Maharaj since he came on this earth in the form as Nanak. When i do, i will surely give all these baseless claims a response. They have already given a response, but let's refresh these guys memory.

First how do you know Satguru Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji Maharaj even got the throne of Guru (Satguru), when Akal Purakh or no other (Sargun) equal came and told the world Nanak is the Guru? So how can we claim Gurbani is the Guru?

Before you go any further answer these questions for all of us here, since you know more than us as you claim.

Singho............this poster is being very clever. As Gurbani says clever ways never pass the test of truth. This poster is trying to make Satguru Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji Maharaj no better than Buddha. This posters agenda is to say all religions lead to God as the Guru (teacher), Nanak or Buddha had to search for God and both found him through their own ways, which are both equal. Singho the bigger agenda of such posters is to take Sikhs away from Sikhi and join Sikhs to other religions that don't follow Satguru Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji Maharaj. I see the same behaviour coming from the guys who acheive doctorare in the field of science and then use this title to claim they are doctors of Sikhi.

This is the attack that is taking place behind closed doors on SIkhi. Many of these type of people go into religious study classes or meetings and spread this kind of propaganda about Sikhi. Recently i gave a good thrashing to such people in a religious meeting and at the end the person said.............how do you know Gurbani is truth? They only start off by saying Gurbani is the truth at the beginning of the discussion because it benefits their agenda. But once the listeners start to doubt more and more through dicussion, they slowly reveal their main agenda and they majority of the time have won over many of the listeners, which includes Sikhs.

One thing the new generation of SIkhs need to learn is, if a Brahmgyani tells you that Satguru Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji Maharaj is Satguru ever since coming on to this planet. And you don't have the time, can't read Gurbani, can read....don't understand Gurbani, have other shortcomings, then bow your mind in the Brahmgyani direction and if these propaganda machines come to say otherwise. Then on the spot tell the guy to keep his mouth shut. Don't listen and stick to the Brahmgyanis words. Satguru says if we just meditate on one tuk of Gurbani, then we will be mukht. Contemplating over Gurbani to gain knowledge is needed, but sharda (faith), devotion and contentment (for what Brahmgyani and Gurbani tell you) is much higher, which will get you to Sri Vaheguru Ji Maharaj.

All this debating and discussing is only for the ego, which the propaganda machines can't control so they say Brahmgyanis are liars and we know all. When such people say Brahmgyanis are liars, then they will not have respect for what you say for a second.

Satguru Sri Guru Gobind SIngh Sahib ji Maharaj said rehat is more dear to me than a Sikh. I'm completely ignorant of Gurbani and i can understand what Satguru is telling me to do here.

If Sikhs become one strong fist on this topic alone, then these propaganda machines can't put Sikh against Sikh. If we don't then these propaganda machines are going to break your mind down and take you away from SIkhi and make you hate your own brothers and sisters.

When I post the Gurbani evidence, I will also post how these propaganda machines will make the connection between Nanak and Buddha being the same. I know many of you believe i am very paranoid, but this is not the case at all.

Also there are many posters on here who have the time to crush the propaganda machines opinions, but when it comes to these topics these individuals run away. When it comes to Sri Chand, Nirmala, Udasis, etc, then they come in full force ready to protect to the last breath. They want to speak of unity, so here is a thread we all can come together on, but no they are staying away from this thread.

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Also there are many posters on here who have the time to crush the propaganda machines opinions, but when it comes to these topics these individuals run away. When it comes to Sri Chand, Nirmala, Udasis, etc, then they come in full force ready to protect to the last breath. They want to speak of unity, so here is a thread we all can come together on, but no they are staying away from this thread.

It's already proven by samparda literature such as nirmale, udasi and taksali that satguru nanak dev nirankar is avtar of sri vahiguroo ji. I don't know why you are targeting wrong set of people - school of thoughts which actually believes satguru nanak dev nirankar is guru avtar as listed in sant gurbachan singh ji khalsa bhindranwale teeka of japji sahib which aligns with old traditional gurmat sidhant shared by sevapanthis, udasi and nirmale, ...not even sure if your above quote make sense, you may want to use your energy against protestant sikhi and bhausaria panthi type sikhi who are hell bent to show guru sahib as just mere messengers, and that nirgun vahiguroo ji can only be defined by shabad not sargun divine saroop as well such as divine saroop of satguru nanak dev nirankar ..!!

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Japji sahib ji katha by gyani thakur singh ji who got his vidya from sant gurbachan singh ji bhindranwale was already translated as well, intial bits talks about guru avtar in great detail: http://www.sikhsanga...must-must-read/

It's not samparda's fault or my fault personally if people read what they want to read, proof is there already there ..reason i refuse to respond to ops posts and consciousness questions, this thread itself is ridiculous and offensive by looking at the replies, it should not have allowed at the first place on forum itself..!!!

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