Misguided Hate

[Singh47]

I will PM you, so we can discuss this in private.

[Gupt daasan daas]

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

brahmgiani ke gath brahmgiani janae does not mean wat mr singh je posted

the tukh means like how beautiful and supreme and powerful a brahmgiani truly is

u can ask santhia teachers bout that

also

maharaj je calles bhagat kabeer je a sant in bani

and theres nothing wrong in calling baba deep singh je

sant deep singh je

sant mani singh je

but in those times almost everyone was a sant

who wasnt, there were dushts for sure, but many many many brahm gianis, gurmukhs, sants, etc.

now, sants are really rare, so they show out like crazy

theres nothing wrong in callen em sant

guru je never said u cant

they themselves call bhagat kabeer je a sant

u can really tell who a real sant is usually

u can just feel it around them

when i go to baba je, it just pure vaheguru

bhula chuka maf

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

[Guest noonespecial]

What really chaps my @ss is when people say that Baba Takhur Singh Jee should have said something about Maan and therefore they place Baba Takhur Singh in the same category as this Maan character.. :lol:

...but in the end, they're only hurting themselves by making such comments.

[V]

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

brahmgiani ke gath brahmgiani janae does not mean wat mr singh je posted

the tukh means like how beautiful and supreme and powerful a brahmgiani truly is

u can ask santhia teachers bout that

I'm pretty sure I've read somewher from Gurbani tha ONLY a Bhramngyani knows who anmother Bhramgyani is, an din the end - it DOE Ssmake sense, would a Panjabi joe know who a brhamgyani is? probably not. I'm prety sure mot GURSIKH PREEMI don't know either who a Bhramgyaani is

Cause look a lot of chelle of Mr Maan ji believed that he was a SANT, tyhey wer eprobably Gurmuhks as well hanna. they didn't know whehter he was a thug of Sant.

Personalyl i dont want to comment on him, caus i'm not a sant and dunnu who's a sant and who's not

also

maharaj je calles bhagat kabeer je a sant in bani

can you compare ANYONE ANYONE on the earth to Bhagat Kabeer ji?

are you tying to say tha ANYONE on this earth can have a s much Bhramgyan as Bhagat ji? His BANI IS IN MAHARAJ, not ANY 'Sant' gets

tha, Baba Attar SIngh ji, Baba Randhir Singh ji, Baba Thakur Singh ji, did ANYOEN get a chance to put bani in Guru Maharaj?

and theres nothing wrong in calling baba deep singh je

sant deep singh je

sant mani singh je

have you EVER done that (nothing personal, jsut out of curiousity)

we KNOW for a FACt tha Guru Gobind SIngh ji LOVED these two Maha Purakhs - did HE ever call them saints?

but in those times almost everyone was a sant

who wasnt, there were dushts for sure, but many many many brahm gianis, gurmukhs, sants, etc.

now, sants are really rare, so they show out like crazy

One with TONS of Naam Kamai will always remain GUPT, and not reveal his/her spiritual state...

theres nothing wrong in callen em sant

why didn't Guru Gobind Singh ji call Baba Deep Singh ji, Bhai Gurdas ji SANT BABA Gurdas ji etc.

when he could have - Bhai Gurdas ji got the honour of writing GURBANI- cna anyone bu a Bhramgyani do that? can any Panjabi joe do tha?

guru je never said u cant

they themselves call bhagat kabeer je a sant

are you comparing someone who's BANI is in DHAN SRI GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI, to someone you arn't even 100% sure is a bhramgyani?

u can really tell who a real sant is usually

u can just feel it around them

when i go to baba je, it just pure vaheguru

bhula chuka maf

that's an amazing State, tha means u've got a MASSIVE naam kamai

but in the end hanna, most of us don't knwo who a sant is, which is why some people believed in Dhanvant Sui - did anyone expose him, or even KNOW tha he was a thug and not a Sant?

no - there we go

What really chaps my @ss is when people say that Baba Takhur Singh Jee should have said something about Maan and therefore they place Baba Takhur Singh in the same category as this Maan character.. 

...but in the end, they're only hurting themselves by making such comments. 

No most peopel dont' place Baba Thakur Singh ji along with baba Mana Singh ji (is he has doen what he's accused for have done)

thing is - we need to realise tha IF Baba Thakur SIngh ji was a Bhramgyani would he not expose Mr Maan and get the women in danger to not be close to him?

i.e if Bab aji told the world thta Mr maan is doing this - would bibiya go close to Mr Maan in the first palce?

again I th

ink it's WRONG to put Baba Thakur Singh ji and Mr Mana in the same box - tha's COMPLETLY WRONG, and actually stupid,

Bab Thakur Singh ji is a POORAN GURMUKH, Guru-ji-de-lal

but we have to realise that we human being without bhramgyan cannot see who another brhamgyani is, cause in the end of the day , only one with MASSIVE naam Kamai can know it, and one with MASSIVE naam kamai - won't reveal ththa he/she's got a massive naam kamai!!!

couldn't be said better than said by Akjforever, a true sant wont allow others to call him sant, cause a true sant is absorbed into Humility

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

I wish to apologize if i have offended anyone, and if theres anything i've formulated in a bad way, just holler back and i'll explain what this moorakh feels about it, if a bit unclear

bhull chukk maaf

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

[akjforever]

The thing is that anyone who wants to put Sant in front of their name can do so, even if they are not a True Sant. Now there are True Sants out there, BUT they are extremely rare. And the average person can't tell if a person is a True Sant or not. If someone can do great katha or has a bunch of followers or they wear white clothes that does not make them a Sant. And it is unfortunate that in Sikhi, many people blindly start following someone who has Sant in front of their name. A true Sant doesn't tell others that he is a Sant, a True Sant doesn't let anyone know they are a Sant. There are those that are Sants and you can look at them and you feel a vibe that they are holy, for example Baba Takhur Singh Ji. My opinion is that the best thing that we can ask from Guru Sahib is the Kamee of His Naam and Naami-GurSikha De Sangat!!

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

[Guest noonespecial]

Mr. Singh Jee,

I agree with almost all your comments in your post. But the thing I never understood is

when you said "IF Baba Takhur Singh is a Brahmgyiani....."

Why the "IF"?

I know alot of people who have had the chance to do darshan of Baba Takhur Singh Jee who say that he's absolutely a brahmgiani. (I myself personally have not been blessed enough to do his darshan). The question which arises from this now FAMOUS thukh from Sukhmani Sahib is that if it takes a Brahmgiani to realize a Brahmgiani then how is ANYONE a Brahmgiani in this world?

For example, would you say Sant Attar Singh Jee was a brahmgiani? Most people would agree, that yes he is. So the question comes up, how did he get recognized as being one? Not like JOE BLOW could say he's a brahmgiani because then JOE BLOW would have to be a Brahmgiani because only a brahmgiani can recognize a brahmgiani

So where does that leave us? We have amazing Gursikhs like Bhai Sahib Randheer Singh Jee, Sant Attar Singh Jee, Sant Baba Nand Singh Jee who were, in my humble opinion, Brahmgianis. But apparently since I am not a brahmgiani myself I cannot recognize them as such, even if the majority of the Panth thinks that they are brahmgiani's as well???? I'm confused veera! HELP A BROTHER OUT!

Getting back to the whole "IF" Baba Takhur Singh is a Brahmgiani topic. A while back at a Samagum I was having a discussion with a fellow Gursikh who told me that history books on Sikhi do not do justice to how GREAT the Guru's

were. History tells us that Guru Gobind Singh Jee was tricked by Auranzeb and that his Zafarnama is proof of this.

That's all <admin-profanity filter activated> in my opinion! How do you TRICK Waheguru? How do you trick the Supreme Being? It's IMPOSSIBLE! Guru Gobind Singh Jee KNEW of Aurangzeb's plans...so why did he go along with everything? ..HUKAM is the only thing that comes to my mind. Why did Jesus go through his crucifixation if he KNEW the pain that he was going to go through? HUKAM! Why do some Sants stay GUPT while others do parchaar? HUKAM. I am by NO means even close to understanding the "Master Plan" that Waheguru has for everyone. However, in my humble opinion, I don't think it's right to question Baba Takhur Singh Jee or any other TRUE Sant/Gursikh out there who didn't say anything because maybe it wasn't there ROLE to do so? Waheguru has a plan for everyone! Sants and Brahmgiani's follow that plan with a smile. Just because we don't understand the plan or wish that it was different doesn't mean that those who follow His Hukam are to be blamed.

..well, that's the way that ~I~ see it. Let me know what you think Singh Jee! Do this sound even a little bit plausible ?

Bhul Chuk Maaf ...

Waheguru Jee Ka Khalsa

Waheguru Jee Kee Fateh!

[AK-47]

lol singh read my post, baba ji told me to read as much gurbani as possible .. do i?

Guru ji says not to look at bad stuff, not to say bad stuff not to do bad stuff, ... do i stop?

Baba Ji tells us to do the same as what guru ji tells us to do, if we do none of that, then what makes us so sure that we would have stayed away from maan had he told us too?

Is that the only bachan that we need to follow? IF baba ji had told us to keep away from maan, then i guess that would have proved that he was a brahamgianni...????

Obviously telling the sangat to follow guru ji and gurbani isnt enough, we need him to publicly shame maan, and then everyone will accept baba ji as a sant??

Do you see how silly this sounds?

Baba ji and other singhs will tell women not to dye their hair, not to wear seductive clothing etc etc all things that will benefit them, yet do all women listen? Men are told to treat women as sisters and mothers and not look at them in that way do we? If they and we did then we would all be safer.

As bro said in last post, its all about the gurbani and simran. We dnt need sants to tell us to keep away from people, theres plenty of people doing gap chap like us to do that, we need gurmukhs to give us jhutia and get us doing some naam kamai!

[AK-47]

Ps it is entirely because these people are sant's or gurmukhs that they dont alter or add to gurbani.. no offence bro, but thats kinda weird comment to make! If they did they would not be sants but maha-papi's and condemed to hell !!

Lets not even walk down that road, they love gurbani more than any of us can even hope to imagine!! Bani is our guru, how can we ever seek to add or change it!!??

[V]

Mr. Singh Jee,

I agree with almost all your comments in your post. But the thing I never understood is

when you said "IF Baba Takhur Singh is a Brahmgyiani....."

Why the "IF"?

Cause i'm what u describe as a Jow blow -without any spiritualityor anythng lol

I know alot of people who have had the chance to do darshan of Baba Takhur Singh Jee who say that he's absolutely a brahmgiani. (I myself personally have not been blessed enough to do his darshan). The question which arises from this now FAMOUS thukh from Sukhmani Sahib is that if it takes a Brahmgiani to realize a Brahmgiani then how is ANYONE a Brahmgiani in this world?

why not?

of course anyone is brahgyani - but we need to remember that these are EXTREMLY EXTREMLY FEW. there are EXTREMLY few TRUE GURMUKHS, GURSIKHS PREMI out there, how many Bhramgyanis will we find? practically ALMOST NONE- but here w're able to make a long list of Bhramgyanis

For example, would you say Sant Attar Singh Jee was a brahmgiani? Most people would agree, that yes he is. 

BUT HOW?!?!?

We need to remember tha some people didn't see the Jot in Guru Nanak Dev ji!

tha's wha ti mean you can NOT possibley know who another Bhramgyani/sant is unless u've got a BIG TIME NAAM KAMAI

So the question comes up, how did he get recognized as being one? Not like JOE BLOW could say he's a brahmgiani because then JOE BLOW would have to be a Brahmgiani because only a brahmgiani can recognize a brahmgiani

So where does that leave us? We have amazing Gursikhs like Bhai Sahib Randheer Singh Jee, Sant Attar Singh Jee, Sant Baba Nand Singh Jee who were, in my humble opinion, Brahmgianis.

not possible.

In the end of the day, Bhramgyani means

Bhramgyanis AAP NIRANKAR, i.e Nirankar himself, reflection of NIRANKAR, now can nirankar have different views ? :T:

It is IMPOSSIBLE all fo these Gurmukhi Pyaare - Guru ji di pyaare lal were BHRAMGYANi. Indeed it's common known ALL OF them wer Guru ji de pyare Sikh, but if all of them Were BHRAMGYANIS, i.e one with God, their believfs would go hand in han d whilst one's believes in Raagmala, one doesn't etc etc (i'm not trying to begin a contreversial debate here lol)

all i'm tryingf to say is - all thr

ee couldn't be Bhramgyanis - cause then theri views would go hand in hand

But apparently since I am not a brahmgiani myself I cannot recognize them as such, even if the majority of the Panth thinks that they are brahmgiani's as well???? I'm confused veera! HELP A BROTHER OUT! 

lo

who am i to help?

I'mscrewed up into this world of maya myself.

Anyways but do you see the point. IF all of them were Bhramgyanis their beliefs woudl go HAND IN HAND,, and not tha one believes in Raagmala, the second doesn't the third believes in falana falana, and the fourth doesn't do you see my points?

THIS is the errors of Panjabi Joes like me. we can NOT know who is or who is NOT a bhramgyani. We can keep sayign falana falana is Bhramgyani, but in the end - you've seen it it urself - ti doesn't make sense, cause if they all were Nirankar themselves would their views really contradict?

bRhm igAwnI kI giq bRhm igAwnI jwnY ]

breham giaanee kee gath breham giaanee jaanai ||

Only the God-conscious being can know the state of the God-conscious being.

were STTM have translated 'Bhramgyani' as God-conscious being.

And those who know average Punjabi know what this means, which i assume you do

hence it my opinion guru S

ahib has made is CRYSTAL CLEAR

who is a Bhramgyani and who is not, by simply saying ONLY a Bhramgyiani knows it, and by saying 'he, she and he is a Bhramgyani' you're practiaclly saying tha YOU ARE A BHRAMGYANI, as only a Bharamgyani can know these things, and a Bhramgyani will never tell another person he's a bhramgyani

Paradox - yes my brain is playing riddles with myself :wub: haha

am I really makign any sense ?

bRhm igAwnI Awip inrMkwru ]

breham giaanee aap nira(n)kaar ||

The God-conscious being is himself the Formless Lord.

if Bhramgyanis himself is Nirankar, would the formless lord contradict himself?

http://www.sikhitothemax.com/Page.asp?Sour...ID=G&PageNo=274

Getting back to the whole "IF" Baba Takhur Singh is a Brahmgiani topic. A while back at a Samagum I was having a discussion with a fellow Gursikh who told me that history books on Sikhi do not do justice to how GREAT the Guru's were. History tells us that Guru Gobind Singh Jee was tricked by Auranzeb and that his Zafarnama is proof of this.

That's all <

admin-profanity filter activated> in my opinion! How do you TRICK Waheguru? How do you trick the Supreme Being? It's IMPOSSIBLE! Guru Gobind Singh Jee KNEW of Aurangzeb's plans...so why did he go along with everything? ..HUKAM is the only thing that comes to my mind.

This used to confuse me as well.

Well basically Guru Gobind Singh ji refused several times and told the consequences of this, btu when he was given hukam from Khalsa Panth he had no choice but to bey

hence

Vaho Vaho GobindSIngh ape Gur-chela

himself the Guru Himself the Chella :WW:

Why did Jesus go through his crucifixation if he KNEW the pain that he was going to go through? HUKAM!

true

Why do some Sants stay GUPT while others do parchaar? HUKAM. I am by NO means even close to understanding the "Master Plan" that Waheguru has for everyone.

In my opinion the 'Sants' hthat stay Gupt do Parchar as well - by living GurSikhi jeevan

parcharacs dont necesarily mean the'yre SANTs hanna?

However, in my humble opinion, I don't think it's right to question Baba Takhur Singh Jee or any other TRUE Sant/Gursikh out there who didn't say anything because maybe it wasn't there ROLE to do so? Waheguru has a plan for everyone! Sants and Brahmgiani's follow that plan with a smile. Just because we don't understand the plan or wish that it was different doesn't mean that those who follow His Hukam are to be blamed.

..well, that's the way that ~I~ see it. Let me know what you think Singh Jee! Do this sound even a little bit plausible ? 

Bhul Chuk Maaf ...

Waheguru Jee Ka Khalsa

Waheguru Jee Kee Fateh!

in the end, I see where your coming from and your view, about HUkam tha is true however would Váheguru want his kchildren to get raped ?

I doubt it, but in the end it's HUKAM and it's for us to accept BhaNa.

but in the end of the day

what Guru Arjan Dev ji said fr me says it all

bRhm igAwnI kI giq bRhm igAwnI jwnY ]

breham giaanee kee gath breham giaanee jaanai ||

Only the God-conscious being can know the state of the God-conscious being.

lol singh read my post, baba ji told me to read as much gurbani as possible .. do i?

Guru ji says not to look at bad stuff, not to say bad stuff not to do bad stuff, ... do i stop?

Baba Ji tells us to do the s

ame as what guru ji tells us to do, if we do none of that, then what makes us so sure that we would have stayed away from maan had he told us too?

I think people would begin to be careful and and be suspicious and i doubt a bibi would go herself and ask Mr Maan some question, but she would probably take some people with her instead of going by herself do you ssee what i mean?

Is that the only bachan that we need to follow? IF baba ji had told us to keep away from maan, then i guess that would have proved that he was a brahamgianni...????

Obviously telling the sangat to follow guru ji and gurbani isnt enough, we need him to publicly shame maan, and then everyone will accept baba ji as a sant??

Do you see how silly this sounds?

it's not abut whether he's a sant or Not, it's about a few bibiya being saved from being consumed by a s.exual predetor (IF HE IS ONE)

Baba ji and other singhs will tell women not to dye their hair, not to wear seductive clothing etc etc all things that will benefit them, yet do all women listen? Men are told to treat women as sisters and mothers and not look at them in that way do we? If they and we did then we would all be safer.

As bro said in last post, its all about the gurbani and simran. We dnt need sants to tell us to keep away from people, theres plenty of people doing gap chap like us to do that, we need gurmukhs to give us jhutia and get us doing some naam k

amai!

Ps it is entirely because these people are sant's or gurmukhs that they dont alter or add to gurbani.. no offence bro, but thats kinda weird comment to make! If they did they would not be sants but maha-papi's and condemed to hell !!

Lets not even walk down that road, they love gurbani more than any of us can even hope to imagine!! Bani is our guru, how can we ever seek to add or change it!!??

I don't see how this is relevant to the topic, pelase forgive this moorakh but i do not udnerstand how it's releted to the topic?

to clearify :

how do we know if someone has actually reached the stage of Bhramgyan or not?

we don't , according to Gurbani's Clear msg

I was speaking to a Gupt Veer ji and this is what he said -

____________________________

I'm not doubting the high avastha of baba thakur singh ji

he's a great gurmukh

with lots of seva

let's leave it there...

it's for Guru Sahib to decide what baba thakur singh ji gets

______________

I totally agree - it's Guru ji's game and who are we to indulge?

es Moorakh Daas diya bhulla chukka nu maaf karna

if you have been offended by what i've said please forgive me as I'ma moorakh and do Ardaas for me that Guru ji does meher on me

Dhurkibaniaytinsaglichi

ntmitai

my last post in this thread,

as I'm a no1 and it's Between Guru ji and the respective Singhs, and someones avasta is none of my business as i'm ment to focus on myself , Rest is between Guru ji..

bhull chukk maaf

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

[Gupt daasan daas]

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

bhai sahib je

first of ll, please ask a taksali who has proper santhia wat brahm giani ke gath brahm ginai janai means

it does not mean wat u are posting

also veer je

i dont wanna type to muh

im lazy :nihungsmile:

ill find a post from another singh which was crazy, u can read that

:nihungsmile:

bhula chuka maf

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!