Whats The Difference Between Delusion And Sharda?

[harsharan000]

Hi Alias,

it is good what you are doing, means trying to satisfy your mind with the queries created by it.

Satisfying one´s intelect is important, as it enables that being to move forward, in the best of cases; but it can also be an hindrance, if it gets stuck at some point.

Wahiguru, is such and entity, which is beyond the reach of the mind. Mind can never comprendeth Him.

Forget Him for a moment, we have all heard that we are "soul", but has anyone realized this by himself/herself. So if we fail to see and recognize our own reality, who is a mamulee drop compared to Him, and that too when our soul is under control of the mind.

So how can anyone know something about Him, by himself? There are no such instruments, to realize Him with our senses, as the mind is dependant on the senses for its interaction and communication with its surroundings, with its envoirements...

The Bani says: Sochay soch na hovaee, jeh sochay lakh vaar...means, think about Him, even hundreds of thousands of times, from different angles even, but then too, we shall never get even an idea about Him.

Wahiguru´s realization, is not like those who take drugs for example. Because if you take 10 different people , and give them the same drug in same amount, all of them will have different hallucinations, experiences....

But on the other side, you take 10 people, and give them the jugtee of Nam, all of them will tell you about the same experiences they have.

So you see, in the end it is your own experience(whether personal or collective) which will confirm your sharda.

For example, not only our Guru Sahibans, but the different Gurmukhs, contained in the Guru Granth Sahib Maharaj, or even the other saints through out the world from different countries, or even the same country but different locations( south, east, west or north) all talk about the same reality. And all of these great souls, talk of the one same reality: Wahiguru, Nam, Shabad....

And in the end, I would just like to write what the Bani says:Only those wadbhagee jeevas come to know and realize Him, to those whom He wants so, the rest will remain in delusion.

It is not even one´s hands to know Him, do whatever one may want: jap, taap, poojas, paaths, pilgrimages, yogas.. etc.

Nothing happens without His "mauj".

We are all blind, He is the one with eyes. The blind can only catch the one with eyes, if only the one with eyes allows him to catch Him, otherwise no way.

Everything which revolves around Him is utterly beautiful, we could keep on talking about His mahima, about His wadeeayee, and then too, we shall never end...there is so much to explore, to taste, to realize.....He is just wonderful.

[alias]

yes the mind acts as a hindrance, but not because it gets stuck. i believe that logic is of the mind. the mind is best friend and worst enemy. so we cant paint a picture of the mind to be bad as i find you doing from your post (which is ok). it can ask questions and is only hindered if it stops asking. i.e. if it thinks it knows everything. ego. i believe all logic stems from assumptions. and logic is finite. so effectively, all questions will be answered and understood. it it finite. it is this finite nature of logic which allows us to ask what we wish. sure, you can come to wrong conclusions, but that means you are trying to understand a level 3 thing with level 1 mind/outlook. simple thing like atoms change at least 3 times in science class as you go from kindergarden to uni.

god cant be understood by the mind. sure. but as you say, we can find it wanderful. and its not just the mind that cant comprehend god, its the heart and everything. (so i dont think you can use this as 'ammo' against the mind not being able to comprehend god).

soul cant really be controlled. its god himself and the more dirt, "mael", and baggage from previous lifetimes we have, the less we see that light within us. hence doing naam simran to clean that dirt, to eventually see the light.

we all have different experiences too when doing naam simran. and similar ones too. just like taking drugs. difference being, one experience opens you up (naam simran), the other (drugs) closes u off. so this is more correct regarding what you say. and sure you can say people have te same experiences, but no two journeys are the same (karam), hence experiences will also be different. also just to add, there is such a thing known as shared delusions. jus go to those churches that exorcist people posession. so, imagine your in sangat and ur doing naam simran, and someone in sangat shouts because he cant contain himself, your gona get riled up too. thats hardly concentrating. and mainly delusion. sure ok, your doing naam simran, and thats never detrimental. but you could get so much more 'nachooar' (juice.. ? ) from naam simran

you say personal experience is the deciding factor between sharda and delusion. its not. because personal experience can be both. this was in my last post.

vadbhagi people realise him because thats where the dristi of god is. those last few lines are most beautiful

lastly, the pauri sochai sorch na hovee is the discourse of guru nanak dev ji with the 4 schools of thought at the time. so long story short, each one came to guru G, some who said u can reach god through taking loads of baths, others said, with giyaan, others said with becoming morn-dharis (chup rehena) and others said.. with fasting. guru G said no to each of them. then they asked guru g the questions. but they didnt know how to ask. so guru g asked for them, kiv suchiaara hoeeyai kiv koorai thute paal. (basically the be all and end all of everything) then maharaj gave the answer, hukam razaee chalna, nanak likhya naal. meaning keep on the pathway of hukam, nanak writes this as and when this (bani) comes to me. >nanak likhya naal<. dhur ki bani aaee basicaly..

so sorch means like in sukhmani sahib sorch karai dinas ar raat .. aka bath. so sorch dont mean thinking. because thats covered as siaanap. so.. "..infinite 100,000s of logics and thoughts and mind stuffs could happen, and not even one will go with you or give you saath...".. so yh.. jus wanted to say that.. because you translated it wrong.

there will coma a point where you will even leave your mind behind. and just go on naamsimran on your journey. so yes. defo. mind will go. just as the very akhar on the gutka sahib ang will dissapear in front of your eyes. you dissolve with bani.

so.. love and dristi. thats my closing.

fateh!

that long post was number 777 on this forum!

sat sat sat sat sat kar jaaneeahu!

[harsharan000]

Dear Alias Jee,

please do not take my words as something personal, they are used as a general rule ...

All I can only say, may your wishes be fullfilled in the way you want, or think it to be.

We are here to give only our sincere opinions, I do not like to go into debates ....it leads nowhere.

My motto is : be helpful and leave it, but do not expect to be accepted by all, as there is ample room for each and every personality.

Everybody has a way chalked out to walk his/her destiny...so the thing is not to force anything on anybody.

We should give time to time ....so everything takes its place in natural way

We are nobody to reform or change the mind, the thinking of anybody ....

[alias]

i didnt take it personally, i i apologise if i came across brash. i agree with everything you say ji.