Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Azad67

Afghan-Sikh Wars (1802-1837)

Recommended Posts

http://historyofpashtuns.blogspot.com/2014/07/afghan-sikh-wars.html?m=1

(Hi i am a pashtun from pakistan, kindly review my above article, if there mistakes or its biased then do point out)

The fact that you have no credible bibliography, or sources, substantiates that the only bias (if any) is prevalent in your own work.

http://tisarpanth.blogspot.co.nz/2014/04/from-frontier-to-frontier.html

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The battle of Jamrud in which Sardar Hari Singh Nalwa became Shaheed was not a loss for Sikhs. The Afghans wanted to capture jamrud which they failed. During the battle Hari Singh Nalwa died, but Jamrud remained in Sikh hands. Neither side can claim that battle as a victory or defeat. For the Sikhs it cannot be a victory (even though they retained Jamrud) because Hari Singh Nalwa died. But for the Afghans it cannot be a victory because they failed to capture Jamrud even if they killed Hari Singh.

Sikh Afghan wars went even beyond 1802. For almost a century Sikhs and Afghans/Pashtuns were locked in a bitter and violent struggle for control over west Punjab and later the trans Indus area. Countless people on both sides died. The Pashtuns were pushed beyond Indus and in 1947 Sikhs were pushed beyond Wagah(by Punjabi Muslims). Today neither the Sikhs nor the Pasthuns are the rulers of this bitterly contested land, as now the Punjabi Muslims have become rulers.

Before 1947 so many Sikh freedom fighters fought for independence but it was all for nothing because Gora masters were replaced by the rulers of Delhi. Likewise Pashtuns fought so many wars with the British but it was all in vain as they did not join Afghanistan in the end and only ended up being a part of Pakistan under the domination of Punjabi Muslims. After 1947 Sikhs got a raw deal from congress which resulted in the Sikh genocide of the 80s, and after 1947 the Pashtuns of Afghanistan and Pakistan saw the soviet war, Taliban war, Nato war and now almost a million tribal Pasthuns have become IDPs within Pakistan itself(not a good way to spend the month of Ramadan) with the state governments of Pak Punjab and Sindh saying they don't want these IDPs entering their states.

And this isn't end of it, probably it will get even worse in the next few years before it gets better.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The battle of Jamrud in which Sardar Hari Singh Nalwa became Shaheed was not a loss for Sikhs. The Afghans wanted to capture jamrud which they failed. During the battle Hari Singh Nalwa died, but Jamrud remained in Sikh hands. Neither side can claim that battle as a victory or defeat. For the Sikhs it cannot be a victory (even though they retained Jamrud) because Hari Singh Nalwa died. But for the Afghans it cannot be a victory because they failed to capture Jamrud even if they killed Hari Singh.

Sikh Afghan wars went even beyond 1802. For almost a century Sikhs and Afghans/Pashtuns were locked in a bitter and violent struggle for control over west Punjab and later the trans Indus area. Countless people on both sides died. The Pashtuns were pushed beyond Indus and in 1947 Sikhs were pushed beyond Wagah(by Punjabi Muslims). Today neither the Sikhs nor the Pasthuns are the rulers of this bitterly contested land, as now the Punjabi Muslims have become rulers.

Before 1947 so many Sikh freedom fighters fought for independence but it was all for nothing because Gora masters were replaced by the rulers of Delhi. Likewise Pashtuns fought so many wars with the British but it was all in vain as they did not join Afghanistan in the end and only ended up being a part of Pakistan under the domination of Punjabi Muslims. After 1947 Sikhs got a raw deal from congress which resulted in the Sikh genocide of the 80s, and after 1947 the Pashtuns of Afghanistan and Pakistan saw the soviet war, Taliban war, Nato war and now almost a million tribal Pasthuns have become IDPs within Pakistan itself(not a good way to spend the month of Ramadan) with the state governments of Pak Punjab and Sindh saying they don't want these IDPs entering their states.

And this isn't end of it, probably it will get even worse in the next few years before it gets better.

The attempt to cast themselves as victors might be a way of connecting with what they deem as their last heritage. If you read Robert Gate's, Bush and Obama's Secretary of War's, autobiography he mentions Pashtun vanity as being a big impediment in subduing Islamic radicalism in Afghanistan.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The attempt to cast themselves as victors might be a way of connecting with what they deem as their last heritage. If you read Robert Gate's, Bush and Obama's Secretary of War's, autobiography he mentions Pashtun vanity as being a big impediment in subduing Islamic radicalism in Afghanistan.

Americans don't know much, they are also to be blamed for the current crises. Vanity may be one thing, all brave people are naturally proud of their heritage. But it's not as simple as that, one needs to go further back in history to see the background of what happened. In the 80s, Americans, Saudis pumped untold amounts of money to be used by the Pakistani army/ISI who in turn created countless madrassas all over Pasthun territory which resulted in their youth getting radicalized. The ISI wanted to use these radicalized youth in Afghanistan and Kashmir as insurgents because they know Pasthuns are very brave people and natural born fighters whose only weakness is religion. But the plan failed big time and now they have to deal with their own monstrous creation in the form of TTP. A Pothohari ISI agent named Col Imam who used to train these radicalized Pasthuns to fight in Afghanistan was ironically captured and killed by the same people which was recorded on video.

Currently people are all talking about the Gaza war, but right now a war 10 times worse is happening in Waziristan which has resulted in a million people being turned into IDPs in their own country. If Pakistan had created schools and collages and technical institutes instead of Saudi funded Madrassas maybe these Pathans would also have been as modern, prosperous and educated as anyone else.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We have our own arguements as to why jamrud was victory for us.

1- Hari singh nalwa objective was to capture jalalabad and go beyond. Afghans at that time were dealing with persian invasion (1836-38). Construction of jamrud fort that lies at the entrance of khyber, alarmed Afghans. Dost muhammad khan's objective to simply stop sikh invasion of khyber and protect jalalabad. They were too pre-occupied with persia to take on well fortified city like peshawer. Peshawer was not on menu.

2- After death of hari singh nalwa, sikhs didnt retain jamrud. They actually retreated from khyber on orders of ranjeet singh. Victory at jamrud not only ensured safety of jalalabad (and kabul) but khyber was also saved. Afghans achieved their objective i.e to repel immediate threat.

3- Sikhs failed in their encroachments on khyber and beyond

4- Immediately after battle of jamrud, dost muhammad khan focused on siege of herat by persians which lasted till 1838. Persians were defeated.

5- Why Afghans didnt make attempt on peshawer after defeating persians in 1838? Because in 1839 they were invaded by british, which lasted till 1842.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with @Jonny101 that despite our great sacrifices in our armed and political resistance against british empire , we failed at the end as we ended up in Pakistan rather than in Afghanistan.

Perhaps the fault lies in us that we didnt adopt ourselves to modren world where education, science and technology matters.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We have our own arguements as to why jamrud was victory for us.

1- Hari singh nalwa objective was to capture jalalabad and go beyond. Afghans at that time were dealing with persian invasion (1836-38). Construction of jamrud fort that lies at the entrance of khyber, alarmed Afghans. Dost muhammad khan's objective to simply stop sikh invasion of khyber and protect jalalabad. They were too pre-occupied with persia to take on well fortified city like peshawer. Peshawer was not on menu.

2- After death of hari singh nalwa, sikhs didnt retain jamrud. They actually retreated from khyber on orders of ranjeet singh. Victory at jamrud not only ensured safety of jalalabad (and kabul) but khyber was also saved. Afghans achieved their objective i.e to repel immediate threat.

3- Sikhs failed in their encroachments on khyber and beyond

4- Immediately after battle of jamrud, dost muhammad khan focused on siege of herat by persians which lasted till 1838. Persians were defeated.

5- Why Afghans didnt make attempt on peshawer after defeating persians in 1838? Because in 1839 they were invaded by british, which lasted till 1842.

Interesting to see the Afghan argument. Sikhs also have their own. Some of the factors surrounding this battle are these:

1. 1837 was Prince Nau Nihal Singh's wedding. It was to be the the most extravagant wedding. Nobles, courtiers, Rajas from all over Punjab and even India were to attend or send their representatives. From the British side, the commander in chief himself was going to attend. Maharaja Ranjit SIngh wanted to impress all these guests with his wealth, power and army, especially the British Commander in Chief. He did this by recalling the best of his troops and commanders from all over the kingdom so they can be used in a parade. Only Hari Singh Nalwa was left in Peshawar province with inferior troops to defend the western front.

2. Dost Mohammad Khan got news of this and saw this as his chance to hit back. He collected best of his army under the command of his two sons and wazir. This army was then reinforced with thousands of guerrilla fighters and tribal Ghazis.

3. Hari Singh Nalwa who was aware of the preparation of the Afghans, sent letters after letters to Maharaja Ranjit Singh for reinforcements. But Maharajat Ranjit Singh took this lightly and wanted his troops to stay until the British guests were in Lahore for the wedding function.

4. The battle was a big loss for both sides. About 7000 soldiers died. On the Afghan side a son of Dost Mohammad Khan and several chiefs died, and on the Sikh side Hari Singh Nalwa died.

5. After Hari Singh Nalwa died, Maharaja Ranjit Singh wanted to retaliate against the Afghans by conquering Jalalabad and sending an army to raid Kabul. But the British had their own designs on Afghanistan by then and restrained him from proceeding beyond Jamrud because they wanted to send their own army to conquer and install Shah Shuja.

6. The Afghans considered their victory in killing Hari Singh Nalwa, while Jamrud and Shabqadar fort remained in Sikh hands.

While Pashtuns consider this battle as a great victory but Dost Mohammad Khan while talking to Captain Alexander Burns said:

"My sons and people may speak in exaggerated terms of our late success, but it is too evident that our power is not one-tenth of that of the Punjab"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Interesting to see the Afghan argument. Sikhs also have their own. Some of the factors surrounding this battle are these:

1. 1837 was Prince Nau Nihal Singh's wedding. It was to be the the most extravagant wedding. Nobles, courtiers, Rajas from all over Punjab and even India were to attend or send their representatives. From the British side, the commander in chief himself was going to attend. Maharaja Ranjit SIngh wanted to impress all these guests with his wealth, power and army, especially the British Commander in Chief. He did this by recalling the best of his troops and commanders from all over the kingdom so they can be used in a parade. Only Hari Singh Nalwa was left in Peshawar province with inferior troops to defend the western front.

2. Dost Mohammad Khan got news of this and saw this as his chance to hit back. He collected best of his army under the command of his two sons and wazir. This army was then reinforced with thousands of guerrilla fighters and tribal Ghazis.

3. Hari Singh Nalwa who was aware of the preparation of the Afghans, sent letters after letters to Maharaja Ranjit Singh for reinforcements. But Maharajat Ranjit Singh took this lightly and wanted his troops to stay until the British guests were in Lahore for the wedding function.

4. The battle was a big loss for both sides. About 7000 soldiers died. On the Afghan side a son of Dost Mohammad Khan and several chiefs died, and on the Sikh side Hari Singh Nalwa died.

5. After Hari Singh Nalwa died, Maharaja Ranjit Singh wanted to retaliate against the Afghans by conquering Jalalabad and sending an army to raid Kabul. But the British had their own designs on Afghanistan by then and restrained him from proceeding beyond Jamrud because they wanted to send their own army to conquer and install Shah Shuja.

6. The Afghans considered their victory in killing Hari Singh Nalwa, while Jamrud and Shabqadar fort remained in Sikh hands.

While Pashtuns consider this battle as a great victory but Dost Mohammad Khan while talking to Captain Alexander Burns said:

"My sons and people may speak in exaggerated terms of our late success, but it is too evident that our power is not one-tenth of that of Punjab"

Do you have a source for that last quote?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Do you have a source for that last quote?

you can find it in Hari Ram Gupta's five volume book set. The last volume

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

isn't every human a natural born fighter

people raised in a martial culture will be more likely to be brave

bravery comes down to culture a group of people are raised around

how good of a soldier you are comes down to strategy having the smartest training an work ethic an how bad you want to reach your objective


what year did the afghans and Persians go to war

did this give an advantage to the sikhs

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  



  • Topics

  • Posts

    • Maybe the older generation but for the younger gen, I don’t think it’s that women ‘try’ to get inbetween, it’s just some women have the expectation that they are marrying only the man, not the whole clan who seem to think they can have their own demands and expectations off the wife eg making all the food. After all, the mother isn’t standing there with the couple doing their laavan. The woman doesnt hold on to the mother inlaws pula either.
    • I once knew a guy(a Mona). He got a white girl pregnant. She was a good natured girl and  compared to him she was really much better looking too. She wanted him to marry her, and she would hang around him during her pregnancy with the hope that he would marry her but he never did. Even the guy's father who was an Amritdhari Singh wanted his son to marry the girl since he didn't want his grand child to be born out of wedlock. But his son was a worthless loser. These are all Nishanis of Kalyug. An increasing number of children will be born out of wedlock as we are seeing in our lifetime. 
    • parents were talking about wresting control from the trust and going independent if Nick started going down the route of wolverhampton.
    • The Khalsa Academies Trust (ACT) also have a school in Wolverhampton. It is called "The Khalsa Academy Wolverhampton" (TKAW).   When this school was originally set up as the British Sikh School (BSS), by a local partnership from Walsall, they asked for assistance from the Nick Kandola's academy trust.  WHICH WAS THE WORST MISTAKE THEY COULD EVER HAVE MADE. Kandola's trust took the new BSS into their trust and then putting his people on the board of governors isolated the two partners who were most instrumental in setting up the school. The two were outvoted on everything, the original plan for the school was changed from a Sikh-centric platform to a money-making herd acheivements and results platform.   It went to the extent that the two partners who set up the school weren't even informed of meetings. Rumours about them being spread in the school. Being isolated. They couldn't do anything and found themselves resigning. Which handed over total control to the Khalsa Academy Trust - Nick Kandola. Who was the main player behind these scenes at the school? Raminder Vig. After Vig, Mrs Sangha was made head. She disappeared suddenly at the end of one of the terms with no explanation to the children/parents except for "she wishes to spend more time with her family." Which points at something shady happening/happened, which the school has covered up.   The result was that the Sikh-centric platform was edged out slowly. First Sikhs studies went out, it was moved to an after school slot under the guise of enrichment. Then the days of enrichment went from 5 to 4, to 3 to 2, and now to 1. Sikh studies is not a part of it any more. Gatka and tabla etc are offered but now students have to pay when they were to be offered for free under the scholls original plan. The school under the 2 partners wanted to teach Sikh philosophy, Sikh music, Sikh literature Sikh martial arts. They had a plan to elevate Sikhs to higher levels of management on a national and international level. But this has ALL gone out of the window under Kandola's group. They never wanted any of this. They just wanted the school itself.   Sadly the Khalsa Acadmeies Trust now have the school . They, masquerading as a Sikh school have turned promising young Sikhs into virtual athiests. There is nothing "Khalsa" - pure about the TKAW. And thats the sad part really. They are no different for Sikh children than any other state school. The TKAW allowed bibles to be handed out to all its children, yet spent 1 hour on the anniversary of Guru Nanak Dev Ji's birthday to talk about Guru Sahib and his teachings.   He is just making sure he has numbers on his side. Kandola's group has got away with it at wolverhampton. Don't let them get away with it again.   If it's anything like Wolverhampton school there is no Sikhi there to begin with.   The principal at TKAW seems to be the of the same calibre. A yes person.   The guy is not to be trusted beleive me. He is one of the main culprits in denying two people the just accreditation and reward for going through a laborious 3 year program in order to set up the school. He plays the part of a "cheeky chappy fun teacher." It's all an act.   In Wolverhampton the excitement and buzz of having our own school dampened after the first academic year and fizzled out completely in the second. Children going there for years and can't tell you basic things about Sikhi. The two people who set it up, this was the project of their lives, which they had dedicated their future to. To wrest control of it, and turn it into a money-making scheme was just an abominable act.   The churning out of athiestic young Sikhs goes on through this venture.  
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Terms of Use