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Was There Any Conspiracy Towards Our Sikh Scriptures?


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PLZ READ ALL & I am not against any1, 1 wud say u have not experienced gurbani but are only taking it conceptually,this is not right..plz we need to get the facts right & known.... its like my q. Is "history of sikh scriptures" by proper resources..thats it no more no less..also plz i dont want to make any1 disbelieve rather.there's a line b/w 2.......

iit irks me in my mind thinking that during British Raj . & during mahants,there could have been potential adding or deleting of our Scriptures.or even hiding them.... also do all Sikh jathebandis agree on " 1430 angs bir" of today...is sggs exactly the same ( not angs but bani wise & shudhta wise) like 300 yr old original ones.....?

Only for info purpose,no disrespect, no controversy.

Is kirre nu muaf karna ji.

Sri akaal sahai!

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You're being paranoid.

The only motivation the British or the Mahants could have had for wanting to add or to abrogate passages from Gurbani, would have been to further their own interests. You've read Gurbani. Have you ever read anything which looks like it would have furthered the interests of Mahants or the British? Any passages about how wonderful obeisance to your conquerors or imperialism is, or how mahants are the bee's knees? No, to the contrary, you'll find an abundance of verses which actively decry the logic behind imperialism and mahant demagogy.

In other words if changes had been made they would have been made in such a way as to benefit the individuals who made the changes.

Besides, the sheer logistics of finding every Bir of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and Sri Dasam Granth Sahib Ji in existence and changing them, one and all, would have rendered such a project inconceivable.

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You're being paranoid.

The only motivation the British or the Mahants could have had for wanting to add or to abrogate passages from Gurbani, would have been to further their own interests. You've read Gurbani. Have you ever read anything which looks like it would have furthered the interests of Mahants or the British? Any passages about how wonderful obeisance to your conquerors or imperialism is, or how mahants are the bee's knees? No, to the contrary, you'll find an abundance of verses which actively decry the logic behind imperialism and mahant demagogy.

In other words if changes had been made they would have been made in such a way as to benefit the individuals who made the changes.

Besides, the sheer logistics of finding every Bir of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and Sri Dasam Granth Sahib Ji in existence and changing them, one and all, would have rendered such a project inconceivable.

Perfecto!!!

The things u have written have also been thought by me.

Just 1 q. Remains.....anything missing from today's sggs from the original ones except the spurious bani!!?

sri akaal sahai!

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VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH

Punjab Digital Library has 420 olden Saroops of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Maharaj scanned and available to the public for review. They can serve as a back check against any Saroop and against each other for accuracy.

http://www.panjabdigilib.org/webuser/searches/mainpage.jsp - make an account and you can review for yourself.

A Gursikh has done a comparison of three Saroops and found variations in all. One day, a consensus version will have to be published as deemed THE final, most accurate by the Panth.

One off the worries of the all the books and Saroops stolen by the Indian Army in 1984 is that they will be altered and re-introduced into the Sikh community slowly with corrupted text. This is something to be wary of, as corruption of the Rehatnamae from olden Sikhs is already suspected.

- the most significant effort to date to preserve Sikh texts. I KNOW they are working with/associated with SikhRI, but it's not like anyone else is undertaking this enormous task. Listen carefully as the Singh speaks about the project, the redundant backups, about how a massive amount of history is in the villages, not universities/libraries and how our own are sabotaging conservation efforts. Another video to compliment is from the same Talking Punjab channel with Vedanti Sahib here:

While focused mostly on 1984 Operation Bluestar, Vedanti Sahib speaks of how him and Bhai Joginder Singh "Talvara" researched and conserved Saroops of Sahib Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji in conjunction with the same people that the other video states were utterly disregarding the significance of olden Saroops and resisting any conservation efforts. It seems that a cooperative effort is needed to bring a more strong conservation effort to the forefront (digitization makes the most sense at this point, apart from physical preservation).

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VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH

Punjab Digital Library has 420 olden Saroops of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Maharaj scanned and available to the public for review. They can serve as a back check against any Saroop and against each other for accuracy.

http://www.panjabdigilib.org/webuser/searches/mainpage.jsp - make an account and you can review for yourself.

A Gursikh has done a comparison of three Saroops and found variations in all. One day, a consensus version will have to be published as deemed THE final, most accurate by the Panth.

One off the worries of the all the books and Saroops stolen by the Indian Army in 1984 is that they will be altered and re-introduced into the Sikh community slowly with corrupted text. This is something to be wary of, as corruption of the Rehatnamae from olden Sikhs is already suspected.

- the most significant effort to date to preserve Sikh texts. I KNOW they are working with/associated with SikhRI, but it's not like anyone else is undertaking this enormous task. Listen carefully as the Singh speaks about the project, the redundant backups, about how a massive amount of history is in the villages, not universities/libraries and how our own are sabotaging conservation efforts. Another video to compliment is from the same Talking Punjab channel with Vedanti Sahib here:

While focused mostly on 1984 Operation Bluestar, Vedanti Sahib speaks of how him and Bhai Joginder Singh "Talvara" researched and conserved Saroops of Sahib Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji in conjunction with the same people that the other video states were utterly disregarding the significance of olden Saroops and resisting any conservation efforts. It seems that a cooperative effort is needed to bring a more strong conservation effort to the forefront (digitization makes the most sense at this point, apart from physical preservation).

SikhRI is a very pro-missionary mindset.

And yes, much history is in villages...that is why missionaries have been promoting "Pind Sambhalo" campaign for many years.

People call in the missionary Parcharaks to 'save' their pinds/villages...but in reality I have suspected for many years is that they are destroying any priceless Sikh items/literature which goes against their ideology.

Just like when Dilgeer was the manager of Sikh Reference Library...who knows how much damage he did. Everyone knows how through time various granthis/managers of various Sikh libraries/Gurdwaras know about the whereabouts of certain missing historical texts/items....but they lie directly to the Sangat time and time again.

Bhai Joginder Singh (Talwara) Jee's Seva and Jeevan is very rare and high level.....nothing can ever tarnish his reputation, because those who know anything about him know what he did for Sikh Panth and how amazing/real he was.

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VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH

Punjab Digital Library has 420 olden Saroops of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Maharaj scanned and available to the public for review. They can serve as a back check against any Saroop and against each other for accuracy.

http://www.panjabdigilib.org/webuser/searches/mainpage.jsp - make an account and you can review for yourself.

A Gursikh has done a comparison of three Saroops and found variations in all. One day, a consensus version will have to be published as deemed THE final, most accurate by the Panth.

One off the worries of the all the books and Saroops stolen by the Indian Army in 1984 is that they will be altered and re-introduced into the Sikh community slowly with corrupted text. This is something to be wary of, as corruption of the Rehatnamae from olden Sikhs is already suspected.

- the most significant effort to date to preserve Sikh texts. I KNOW they are working with/associated with SikhRI, but it's not like anyone else is undertaking this enormous task. Listen carefully as the Singh speaks about the project, the redundant backups, about how a massive amount of history is in the villages, not universities/libraries and how our own are sabotaging conservation efforts. Another video to compliment is from the same Talking Punjab channel with Vedanti Sahib here:

While focused mostly on 1984 Operation Bluestar, Vedanti Sahib speaks of how him and Bhai Joginder Singh "Talvara" researched and conserved Saroops of Sahib Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji in conjunction with the same people that the other video states were utterly disregarding the significance of olden Saroops and resisting any conservation efforts. It seems that a cooperative effort is needed to bring a more strong conservation effort to the forefront (digitization makes the most sense at this point, apart from physical preservation).

What i have seen that sikh people like us r being deprived from the historic things..i feel the pain direct in my heart thinking that something very imp rare thing is finished or destroyed..or hidden..

PDL SHOULD MAKE A DOWNLOAD OPTION ASWELL ALSO THE BACKUPS PRODUCED SHOULD BE DISTRIBUTED AMONG US ALSO I NIHANG SINGHS HAVE WHOLE TREASURE AS IT IS STILL AVAILABLE(EXCEPT BHANG,JATKA RITUALS)...THESE SHOULD BE DIGITIZED( EXAMPLE - BABA DEEP SINGH JI 'S SAROOP AS CLAIMED...ALSO I THINK NIHUNGS ORAL TRADITIONS ARE SAME AS WERE OF PURATAN TIMES....) WHY? WHY DONT THERE BE A SINGLE WEBSITE TOTALLY HAVING DIGITIZED EACH THING PERFECTLY OF SIKHISM PUNJAB...? I HOPE THAT DAY COMES...

ALSO WE NEED TO BE STRONGER WHATEVER WE LOST IN 84 ,WAS AKAAL PURAKH'S HUKAM....BUT REMEMBER IT IS OUR RESPONSIBILITY TO PRESERVE OUR THINGS..,

AND I GUARANTEE U AKAAL PURAKH HIMSELF WILL BE HELP US PERFECTLY WITH EVERYTHING WE NEED WANT ETC...WE JUST NEED TO TAKE FIRST STEP...

All i want from this thread is that even if 2-3 people having some money join together...waheguru ji will help us ...nothing can get hidden....

Sri akaal sahai!

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Perfecto!!!

The things u have written have also been thought by me.

Just 1 q. Remains.....anything missing from today's sggs from the original ones except the spurious bani!!?

sri akaal sahai!

No! But the original saroops of Guru Sahib were hand-written so they probably didn't have 1430 Angs depending on who wrote that saroop.
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There was over zealous editing of Sikhi scriptures and removal of certain passages etc by "hinduphpbic" members of the Community after the anglo Sikh wars. I will find some examples.

A number of fanatics like Teja Bhasaur wanted to purge a good many sections from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, yes, but that misses the point of the OP's question. He suspected that there was a conspiracy to alter Gurbani which managed to spread its tendrils throughout the entire Sikh world and which was perpetrated by some great power, not the ramblings of a lone fruitcake like Teja Bhasaur and his paltry following. These anti-Hindu fanatics were for the most part ignored by Sikhs.

Puraatan Birs and Saroops still survive in great number at certain old Guru Ghars, Takhats and Nihang Dals. They are overwhelmingly similar to the Saroops in Gurdware today.

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http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Babu_Teja_Singh


A number of fanatics like Teja Bhasaur wanted to purge a good many sections from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, yes, but that misses the point of the OP's question. He suspected that there was a conspiracy to alter Gurbani which managed to spread its tendrils throughout the entire Sikh world and which was perpetrated by some great power, not the ramblings of a lone fruitcake like Teja Bhasaur and his paltry following. These anti-Hindu fanatics were for the most part ignored by Sikhs.

Puraatan Birs and Saroops still survive in great number at certain old Guru Ghars, Takhats and Nihang Dals. They are overwhelmingly similar to the Saroops in Gurdware today.

Except, for the MAJOR difference of the 'printed' texts (not birs) are using words split at the printer's leisure NOT AS THEY WERE ORIGINALLY HAND WRITTEN.

A traversity greater than Ram Rai..

Gurfateh Matarbhumi hater..

VJKVJF||

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