Musical theory of Raag Kirtan

[GurjantGnostic]

8 hours ago, GurjantGnostic said:

Hence the frequency of Ma is 320 Hz, the frequency of Dha is 400 Hz. So, now we have the frequencies of the following notes: Sa 240 Hz, Re 270 Hz, Ga 300 Hz, Ma 320 Hz,Pa 360 Hz, Dha 400 Hz, and Ni 450 Hz. So, now we know the frequencies of all the seven shuddha notes.

And I don't think Ma is always 320. I think in this example ma starts at 320 and everything else is relative to that. 

[GurjantGnostic]

So western music is teentaal basically. 16 beats. Especially electronic. So whichever Ang are to that, it's easier to get premade drum tracks. 

[Kaurr]

12 hours ago, GurjantGnostic said:

I'm not trying to hate. But I'm not sure harmonium is doing us any favors. It may in fact be damaging Kirtan but I won't say that until I understand this a little better. 

And what I mean by this, is so far I've yet to find anyone, who is talking about playing Raag Kirtan without using a harmonium and the concept of western scales in music. Like I guess if the number of tones or semi tones you skip is the same you could use the western scales, but.. shouldn't there be..a..Raag version? A Raag way of expressing it?

I use harmonioum to learn a bandish and to guide my voice when I can't hit the write sur. Raag kirtan sounds much better on other saaj, like dilruba, Taus, rabab, ext.

 

I've got an online copy of gurmat Sangeeta darpan, but it's all in Punjabi. It has different bandishes and information on different raag.

If you want to get better at singing raag kirtan, practice the Sur saa a couple of minutes before ryaaz. From what I know, the saa can be changed from 1st black to 4th black on the harmonium, depends on how deep your voice is. 

Try finding raag kirtan lessons in your area, having a good ustaad really helps,

[Kaurr]

1 hour ago, GurjantGnostic said:

So western music is teentaal basically. 16 beats. Especially electronic. So whichever Ang are to that, it's easier to get premade drum tracks. 

In raag kirtan, we can have taals that are 11 beats, 7 beats, 9 and a half beats, ext. There are also partaals where we switch beats for different antras, so for example, the asthaee and the shabad can be played in jhap Taal (10 beats) in vilambit, same with the first two antra, but the next two antra can be played in ek Taal in dugun, and the next two can be played in teen Taal, also in dugun speed.

[GurjantGnostic]

My brain hurts like math. It's...slowly being pried open. I'm getting it. 

I think I'll have to take the paid approach. By which I mean get paid to listen to raag kirtan and tabla tutorials on youtube while I do Bhagti of Naam. Not pay somebody. 

But some cool things so far. The notes Sa Re Ga Ma Pa Dha Ni really sing themselves. Those phoenetics are really good for producing the note. You don't even have to sing various notes per se, it's more like you vibrate your chords and simply saying those sounds out loud puts you where your pitch should be. You can legit just sing combinations of Sa Re Ga Ma Pa Dha Ni and it sounds great. 

 

[GurjantGnostic]

56 minutes ago, Kaurr said:

In raag kirtan, we can have taals that are 11 beats, 7 beats, 9 and a half beats, ext. There are also partaals where we switch beats for different antras, so for example, the asthaee and the shabad can be played in jhap Taal (10 beats) in vilambit, same with the first two antra, but the next two antra can be played in ek Taal in dugun, and the next two can be played in teen Taal, also in dugun speed.

So glad you're here Bhenji. Because as soon as I figure out what you mean a bit more I'll have questions. 

[GurjantGnostic]

1 hour ago, Kaurr said:

I use harmonioum to learn a bandish and to guide my voice when I can't hit the write sur. Raag kirtan sounds much better on other saaj, like dilruba, Taus, rabab, ext.

 

I've got an online copy of gurmat Sangeeta darpan, but it's all in Punjabi. It has different bandishes and information on different raag.

If you want to get better at singing raag kirtan, practice the Sur saa a couple of minutes before ryaaz. From what I know, the saa can be changed from 1st black to 4th black on the harmonium, depends on how deep your voice is. 

Try finding raag kirtan lessons in your area, having a good ustaad really helps,

Could you post that please even though I can't read it all yet?

[GurjantGnostic]

 

 

Just as the "note" is the basis of the melodic compogs:nent of music, the bol (pronounced bowl) is the foundation for taal. Bol literally means speech or syllables. The vocal bols sound very similar to bols played on the percussive instrument. The most common tabla bols are Dha, Dhi/Dhin, Ti/Tin, Ra, Ki, Ta, Na, Tin, and Te. Different schools of percussion may pronounce the same bol differently. Several bols structured in a specific manner and arranged in sub-divisions are called thekas.

Each bol usually takes up one, halt or quarter of a beat (matra) in a theka. The first beat of a theka is called the sam (pronounced sum). It plays a crucial role in the improvisation structure during a recital -- since it becomes a point of convergence for both the melodic and percussive improvisation. A theka also consists of layers of accents or voids in the first beat of a sub-division. A degree of symmetry, with an elegant manner of the theka leading to the sam, is quite common in the arrangement of the bols in a theka. A theka (also referred to as tool) can theoretically contain between two and 108 beats, although in reality there is no limit. While bols have existed in the percussion repertoire for a long time, thekas are probably a recent phenomenon (perhaps only around 600 years old ) The commonly heard thekas are dadra (6 beats), roopak (7 beats), keherwa (8 beats), jhaptaal (10 beats), ektaal (12 beats), chautal (12 beats), dhamar, deepchandi, jhumra (all 14 beats but with different bols and sub-divisions), and teentaal (16 beats). Although thekas are usually standard, bols of thekas can vary slightly, depending on the musical school or individual style of the tabla player.

A raga is totally dependent on tal (pronounced taal). Vocal music, instrumental music and dance rely on rhythm for its effect on the audience. Tal/tala [1] is the means of measurement of time in music or dance. Rhythm is the breaking up of time in small units. Time is cut into pieces at certain regular intervals. Literally tal means the palm of the hand; the time is measured by the clapping of hands (tali) or beats of drums or sticks. Tal is divided into two halves; Bhari (full) starting with sam, and khali (empty) starting with khali. So tal is an organisation of rhythms or different beats in certain groupings which are smaller units of matras. These rhythmic units repeat themselves in cycles. The drummer has to produce the spoken syllable indicating the position of the hand on the drum.

Tala (also written as (‘’Tal’’) in Indian music and Gurbani Kirtan refers to a complete and complex system for the execution and transcription of Rhythms and Beats. There exist over 20 different ‘’Talas’’ or ‘Beat Patterns’. The most common Tala in Classical Indian Music is the Theen Tala. This beat has a cycle of 16 beats divided in 4 sectors. Sectors 1,2 and 4 are full while sector 3 is empty. These beat patterns can also be played at different speeds.

[GurjantGnostic]

22 minutes ago, GurjantGnostic said:

Dha, Dhi/Dhin, Ti/Tin, Ra, Ki, Ta, Na, Tin, and Te. Different schools of percussion may pronounce the same bol differently. Several bols structured in a specific manner and arranged in sub-divisions are called thekas.

So the taals have varing lengths. A pattern of 1 to however. The count. The individual bols or sounds are usually a quarter of the count but not always. 

In the same way you can sing the Raag sounds for practice you can speak these beats using these sounds or any sound you like. They could be made any number of ways including stomping and hitting Shastar things like this. 

Raag Kirtan seems to really favor being sung by large groups in a way. The whole Sangat used to be more involved I would wager. 

How the tabla and the raag coordinate in time is tricky. It's not the same as western music and my knowledge of that is limited. 

Or maybe it is...I just don't know yet. 

 

[GurjantGnostic]

Theen tala sounds like a three four waltz beat.