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On Vasakhi 1699 after the first two Khalsay had stood up ... Guru Gobind Singh Ji (the sixth Khalsa) gave three more calls. Mohkam Chand, a Gujarati calico printer/tailor from DwarkaNagar, Himmat Rai, a water-bearer from Jagannath Puri in Orissa, and Sahib Shah, a barber from Bidar (south India), stood up one after another and advanced to offer their heads. ... a minority of the wider Punjabi community is Sikh ... most Punjabi's are Muslims and there are more Hindi speaking "Punjabi's" in the historic parts of pre-1966 Punjab. So we as Sikhs need to fight back against this nonsense portraying Sikhs as the equivalent of Punjabi's as they seek to limit the truth to a small part of Punjab only. Even the Muslim Jatts that killed 300,000 Sikhs in 1947 and the Hindu Jatts like Sajjan Kumar laugh at the ridiculousness of some Sikhs associating an ancestry with their name as a mark of pride given the fact that even the vast majority of Jatts are Muslim and Hindu ... So again we as Sikhs need to fight against our Panth being associated with any particular ancestry backgrounds (because that's exactly what our enemies want) So let's be clear anybody in 2012 who proclaims their ancestry background from the rooftops is not a Sikh and Punjabiyat has no relavance to Sikhi. Anybody into Bhangra please tell your favourite artists that you will not buy their records if they continue to promote alcohol + caste on behalf of a Muslim record label like Moviebox. Sikhi is falsely portrayed by the Panth's enemies and for the record let me state that i think a billion or so Hindu's are generally good people (the 800 million or so Hindu's who live in poverty I consider as Sikh in my eyes anyway ... before someone misinterprets my stab at the Panth's enemies)

I recently saw a facebook post of a UK singh who had committed suicide and it made me wonder what makes these people take their own lives when they have so much to life for. And this was not the only case in recent years there was a sikh girl recently who took her own life cos of not getting good enough exam grades for the uni course she wanted. There was a case of a young punjabi schoolboy taking his life after being bullied and cruelly taunted about being a pedo. And I remember another case of a singh taking his own life fear years ago because of family problems. I think there is a huge issue in our community where they are being brainwashed by false expectations and aspirations of what success is, false ideologies such as creeping backward hindu punjabi beliefs / superstitions, family pressures/problems, financial/job pressures and taking of drug alcohol intoxicants which is leading to a rise in people falling into depression and taking their own lives especially British punjabi men. The male suicide rate is often much higher than females in most communities. We should try to help more the mentally vulnerable in our community. Though its not usually easy for people to open up about problems when most our pendu people just want to laugh or critise if a guy is feeling emotionally weak due to something but has to maintain a strong face or front.

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Good to know. So you're just reading the Gurmukhi along with the transliteration? I recommend learning with a systematic approach as well. Google "muharni Damdami Taksal". Good luck.

People are particularly dense in this respect , they see stuff on the net or TV and believe that it is free expression ... it's all edited and funnelled a certain way to support the agenda's of the people in charge. Best thing to do when you have cancer is go dairy-free , low carb or even do fasting to starve the sugar hungry cancer cells , your body will cope by switching to ketones which the cancer cells can't do effciently and autophagy will wipe the suckers out .

@FreshMind13, thank you for that info. I only bought the cert for a year so will look at LetsEncrypt soon. The sad and confused reactions are now removed and requested changes to the forum homepage are now in place.

That's great! Now the NSA won't be able to spy on what people post on this forum. (For those that don't know, the NSA--and likely every other intelligence agency--scoops up and records everything that you do on the Internet. Everything insecure, that is--http vs https.)

I would only do Matha Tek to the Guru Granth Sahib, and thats it. I would only touch my elders feet as a sign of respect, I wouldn't touch any godmens or prophets who say they represent god. Infact god has no representatives, washing feet, I think its a sign of respect when you go into the Gurdwara.

Anyway of petitioning the decision and getting Khalistan back into UNPO? Would definetly add clout to Punjab 2020 Referendum.

No, I am not saying that, but I am just saying we should pay attention and pray to god, that's it.

Congrats guruvah. For there can not be a more perfect reply than the one given by you. Stay blessed. Sat Sree Akal.

They didn't have to be reborn, bro. (I not not even necessarily accepting the narrative that they were bhagats in previous lives, but still.) If they were reborn bhagats, there's nothing doctrinally wrong with that. ਜਨਮ ਮਰਣ ਦੁਹਹੂ ਮਹਿ ਨਾਹੀ ਜਨ ਪਰਉਪਕਾਰੀ ਆਏ ॥ Janam Maran Dhuhehoo Mehi Naahee Jan Paroupakaaree Aaeae || Those generous, humble beings are above both birth and death. ਜੀਅ ਦਾਨੁ ਦੇ ਭਗਤੀ ਲਾਇਨਿ ਹਰਿ ਸਿਉ ਲੈਨਿ ਮਿਲਾਏ ॥੨॥ Jeea Dhaan Dhae Bhagathee Laaein Har Sio Lain Milaaeae ||2|| They give the gift of the soul, and practice devotional worship; they inspire others to meet the Lord. ||2|| ਸੂਹੀ (ਮਃ ੫) (੫੪) ੨:੨ - ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੭੪੯ ਪੰ. ੩ Raag Suhi Guru Arjan Dev They come to Earth as parupkar (helping others). They don't come because they have to. Read the entire shabad. It pertains to saints. The saints can easily come and go: ਐਸਾ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਜੇ ਮਿਲੈ ਤੁਠਾ ਕਰੇ ਪਸਾਉ ॥ Aisa Sathigur Jae Milai Thutha Karae Pasao || If one meets such a True Guru, by His Pleasure, He shows His Mercy. ਮੁਕਤਿ ਦੁਆਰਾ ਮੋਕਲਾ ਸਹਜੇ ਆਵਉ ਜਾਉ ॥੧॥ Mukath Dhuara Mokala Sehajae Avo Jao ||1|| Then, the gate of liberation becomes wide open, and the soul can easily come and go. ||1|| p477 Raag Goojree Guru Amar Das I guess I can sort of see how you might think it to be denigration of the bhagats, but how is it denigration of the Punj Piyare? Are you saying that the Punj Piyare were never born before?

You got very good points, and every Sikh on these forums agree, but the issue is how can we stop this. I mean the issue is that Sikhism has to be reunited when the British came in and tried to convert us only a few converted, but we sticked together and infact a Singh Sabha was made to protect Sikhi, now after the partition and the insurgency, we have become weak. My feeling is that we can't save some of the Sikh's of this generation, but we can train the next to carry on our torch. We have to work together to fix these things like caste, gender discrimination, and rituals. We need someone to make a movement like the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singh_Sabha_Movement and make it a 2.0. We have to remove the old generation that are spreading these lies such as caste and such. We have to remove these corrupt committees who don't care about God, but instead they are just being trapped by Maya or Mukti and being controlled by lobh (greed) they just care about money and god. We need a Singh Sabha Movement 2.0 led by fellow Sikh's we can work together, but we need organization, but I feel that it will never happen, and there will be another post saying that we need a movement, but we gotta find a way.

You have a very good point. Actually, before the partition had happened there were Sindhi Sikhs from the region Sindh who were devoted to Guru Nanak and Sikhi, but after the partition, these people assimilated into Sikhism. I always hear North Indian Sikhs making fun of South Indians and such, but they should realize there are South Indian Sikhs and others in India. Like there are Bengali Sikhs, Assamese Sikhs who were the descendants of the Khalsa or Sikh Soldiers who intermarried with the Assamese locals, Sikhligars who live everywhere in India, I think Tibetan Sikhs, and etc. Also, there are Pashtun Sikhs as well! Funny thing these people never abandoned their Sikhi even though they have been isolated. When I see a photo of the Sikhligars or the Assamese I always see most of them have kirpans, patka's, and etc while us Punjabi's who have been exposed to Sikhi still are majority Mona's, who drink alcohol and etc. The issue is why there isn't that many foreign Sikhs is due to the fact that Sikhism really doesn't care about getting followers like they didn't send missionaries and such. The ideas were spread through by Sikh travelers, and people often say why Sikhism are mostly Punjabi due to the fact we didn't actively convert that many people, another issue is that 3H0, its controversial due to the fact that its more like a new age movement like Osho, and it had a lot of things that Sikhism opposed like ritualism, and etc. Which is why when you see a Gora Sikh they would get negative press because Punjabi's would assume they are from 3HO, but in fact some Sikh's just stumble upon Sikhism, not from 3H0. The issue is that culture is affecting Sikhi, and we have to bash it. Like Guru Nanak said women are equal, yet there are Punjabi Songs degarding women as whores, or sluts. Guru Nanak said that sons and daughters are equal, yet ironically Punjabi has the highest infanticide rates in India! We also say there is no caste, but we have caste attach to our names like my name for example. Honestly, it blows my mind how when I ask my friends about Sikhi they think that Sikhism is meant for the Jatts, they have that cultural mentality in my opinion. For me I never knew I was a "Jatt" Sikh until last year when a girl asked me. Sikhism has a lot of potential, but we got to remove the weeds and vines of this dangerous culture that is affecting Sikhi.

Even guru gobind singh ji was born outside of the punjab..

Are we nice or being fools for allowing this to happen. This is our religious event. Why are they setting up stalls targeting Sikhs? It is due to our foolishness and openness that we allowed Christian missionaries to target Sikhs in Punjab. We are seen as a soft target. Now ahmadies are taking advantage of this too

I personally think Guru Sahib made it clear to us with the Panj Pyaare being from all corners of India what his intent for Sikhi was. He didn't want it to be restricted among Punjabi, and its unfortunate it has been so. And the culprits for this are us Punjabi. I personally think that we need to spread awareness among other communities. A significant non-Punjabi Sikh population are Sindhi people. They're very devoted to the Sikh Panth, however are also verging on Santana Dharmic ideals. A little more awareness among them would help them correct their ways. We also need to reach out to other communities, especially those that are related to the Panj Pyaare and also those not related as well. Most individuals from the Panth will say that this is proselytization, but I disagree. If you won't spread awareness, how will one know about it? The issue is who will do this? Our own Panthic organizations are weak and uneducated, and can be easily bought over. We need to renew our Panthic foundation, but I don't know how that is possible?

Sad stories. We never get to know whats going on In peoples brains until It Is too late.

Songs like ni mae suicide karunga tere samne don't help much either. The consequences of a suicide should be discussed with youth especially on a religious level in that the soul has nothing to benefit from suicide apart from being set back greatly.

A depressive state is something you need to grow out of it. It is not something that can go away overnight. Offer goodwill to other people as this creates a powerful positive energy. Focusing on other people’s good qualities can definitely help improve your own state of mind. There is a principle that what we give out, we get back. Therefore, by offering positive energy to, at some time, we will also be the recipient. Thoughts play a very significant role in determining our state of mind. If we pursue negative thoughts then we give them greater power and influence over our state of being. However, Gurbani helps decide which thoughts to allow and which to reject. We have to learn to be vigilant and prevent negative thoughts from taking hold. As soon as we become aware of negative thoughts we should let go of them. Avoid feelings of guilt. If we have made a mistake, harbouring feelings of guilt will not help alleviate the situation. In particular, we are seeking to avoid feelings of guilty for minor events of no significance. Often we have done nothing wrong, but, others seek to make us feel guilty for their bad fortune. Instead of feeling guilty we should seek to concentrate on doing the right thing. Don’t Base your Happiness solely on other people. If we expect to gain happiness from another person, at some time, we are bound to be disappointed. If bad relationships end, we should see it as an opportunity to move on. It is no use dwelling on what might have been. It is also a mistake to feel that we can change somebody to match our preferences. If we seek to change a person fundamentally we will just feel frustrated when we fail. Have Low Expectations of people. Depression often occurs because our desires remain unfulfilled. The more desires we have, the more likely we are to be disappointed. After disappointment comes a sense of frustration and depression. If we minimise our desires then we will not be prone to disappointment. This does not mean we cannot strive for excellence and achieve things. We definitely should strive to achieve various accomplishments. However, we should try to have an attitude of detachment to the outcome. Nor should we expect people to behave in a certain way. This is a really good piece you've replied paji.

Thanks a lot. Also, 1) Could you remove anonymous reactions? I (and a lot of others, including @GurjantGnostic) don't see the need for anonymous reactions. Or perhaps only keep "like" and "funny" as a reaction. When you like something, you agree with it, there is nothing more to say. If you don't like something, you should explain yourself. There is nothing more frustrating that an army of sockpuppets coming by and putting a "confused bootha" face on your post, with no explanation of why they did so. 2) The old frontpage layout was better where it had on the right sidebar the most recent threads, then the most recent posts. All the way on the main bottom, it had the top posters. Frankly, top posters is not something that people urgently need to know. It's more of an ego thing for people who post a lot (such as me and about dozen others). The reason for having top threads on the right sidebar is that's where most people know of the existence of a thread. If it's not there, it doesn't exist. They don't go into the subforums. I know that there's still a top posts section on the frontpage, but that easily gets overwhelmed by a few posts in the same thread. The top threads section is more stable in getting attention out to some threads that didn't have the most recent posts. I know that the layout I'm requesting is already present in the thread pages. But I'd really like to see it on the homepage, because that's the starting off point for most people, and it's really awkward to have to open up a random thread, just to then see what the top threads are.