californiasardar1

Most Sikhs in the UK tie the Kenyan style pagh because most turban-wearing Sikhs in the UK are tarkhans whose family roots go back to Kenya (or other parts of East Africa). Note that tarkhans make up a majority of turban-wearing Sikhs in the UK even though in the general Sikh population (turban wearers and monay), tarkhans are heavily outnumbered by jatts. This just illustrates how pathetic jatts are. (Note: I am jatt.) The few young men from non-tarkhan backgrounds who do wear paghs tend to also wear the Kenyan style. This is because they'd rather fit in with their young peers who also wear paghs (most of whom are tarkhans wearing the Kenyan style) than look like the two or three jatt uncles at the gurdwara who wear Punjabi style paghs. (Examples: Jassi Sidhu, Jay Singh Sohal, etc.)

When is the last time you saw a sabat soorat singh as the main character in a Punjabi film? And I'm not talking about people portraying a religious/dharmic/panthic figure. I'm talking about everyday protagonists. The fact is, people want to complain a lot of about Bollywood's portrayal of Sikhs, but the Punjabi film industry is just as bad if not worse. All you see is monay and stupid trimmed "Singhs" with barely any facial hair.

There is nothing we can do. For every young Sikh woman who keeps her kesh, there are maybe 5-10 young Sikh men who keep their kesh. So except for the lucky Singhs who find life partners who have kept their kesh, most Singhs will be left with one of three options: 1. Try to convince a hair-cutting girl who most likely prefers a mona to marry him 2. Give up and remain single 3. Trim his beard and/or cut his hair Indeed, there is a problem with the community mindset. And this problem is only going to get worse with time. 99.9% of Sikh kids who grow up in hair-cutting families view Singhs as weird extremists and want nothing to do with them. Of course, there are the 0.01% from this group who will move towards Sikhi, despite all the odds. What about Sikhs who grow up in "keshdhari" families? Most of them will cut their hair and raise children who adopt the views of the children described in the previous paragraph. 90% of the boys will at some point trim their beards and/or cut their hair. And 95% of the girls from such families will cut their hair and only marry monay.

Before you go around insulting others, you should learn how to write properly. Anyway, you are obviously hot-headed and immature. And I am not impressed by your bravado. Calm down a little bit and think about the situation carefully. There is a difference between doing honorable work protecting those who need it and getting mixed up in a world filled with moral ambiguity where you may be doing (or be asked to do) a lot of harm (in addition to putting your life on the line). My grandfather was a police officer, and things aren't as simple as you try to make them out to be. I am "interfering" with my advice because I'm not a teenager who thinks that everything in life is about having the "ballz" to do something or not. What is the point of potentially dying over something stupid?

Where in my post did I say anything about individual police officers? All I am saying is that there is a better way of making a living than putting your life on the line for (in many instances) morally ambiguous reasons. This is more true of the military than the police.

Well put

Exactly. Pannu is a complete fraud who is just trying to raise his profile for the benefit of his business interests. I feel bad that some well meaning Sikhs are gullible enough to be fooled by a two-bit con artist like Pannu. He is pathetic.

This double standard exists because, for generations, it was the norm for men to wear dastars whether they were religious or not. Drinking has always been common among "Sikhs", even when virtually 100% of the men were Singhs. It only relatively recently that "clean shaven Sikhs" have existed in large numbers. So you still have a decent amount of men who wear dastars and are not particularly religious. Similarly, it was the norm for women NOT to wear dastars, whether they were religious or not.

Sikhs for Justice is a scam It is an organization run by some two-bit "lawyers" who deliberately make noise to raise their profiles and benefit their own business.

Please speak for yourself. Polish women are not particularly attractive. Anyway, are you married to a 1984 orphan? Here are some things I never see: 1. Canadian Sikhs who don't "act like they're black" 2. Anyone wearing a turban in the Doaba region 3. Sikhs raised in the UK who pronounce Punjabi names properly instead of adopting the gora misprounciations 4. Punjabi film actors who are portraying Singhs who have enough respect for the role to grow out their beards instead of wearing tacky fake beards 5. "Urban" Sikhs having trouble finding wives within their own community 6. Sikhs marrying people from other religions and bringing their partners into Sikhi 7. UK born monay who decide to become Singhs and then manage to die a decent looking pagh (Their fathers don't even know how to tie paghs, so who can blame them?) 8. A non-horrible Punjabi movie 9. Sikhs outside the UK who write "penji" and "pend" instead of "panji" and "pind"

Why do you want to put your life on the line defending corrupt governments/systems?

I really don't have time for people like Sarbjit "Singh". This guy spends so much time making videos and professing his love for Sikhi and concern about Sikh issues. And yet, he is so embarrassed to be a Sikh that he goes out of his way on a regular basis to remove his beard and hair so that he can avoid looking like a Sikh. Why should I take anything this guy has to say seriously? Why should I care about what a Sikh who is embarrassed about being a Sikh has to say? If he cares so much about the Sikh religion and Sikh community, why does he opt to look like a Hindu/Muslim/Christian/Atheist/Whatever rather than look like a Sikh? He would literally have to do NOTHING. How much can he possible care if he can't even do something that simply requires doing NOTHING? (Letting your kesh grow out requires zero work. On the other hand, removing kesh requires work.) He is a pathetic coward. People like him make me sick, and the fact that there are so many like him illustrates why today's Sikh community is so pathetic.

I agree. Duleep Singh was deadweight. And his "change of heart" towards the end of his life was fake and misleading. His life was in ruins and he was desperate for money and status. Does anyone really believe he got into Sikhi and had a spiritual reawakening? If you do, I have a bridge to sell you.

Why is there any outrage about this view being expressed in a Hindi film? 99.9% of "Sikh" women hold the same views. Walk into any gurdwara at a busy time, and 90% of the women under the age of 50 will hold such views. Why on earth are other people going to respect us when our own people don't? This degenerate thinking is now firmly entrenched within the Sikh community, thanks not the RSS, not to Muslims, not to any outside group. It is thanks to the monay Sikhs that everyone on these forums likes to defend so much.

Oh no, there is a thread on these forums that is actually generating some responses! Let's quickly move this to a section that nobody looks at. Then we can get back to the usual rate of two new posts per week. Better yet, let's lock it! Locking lively threads is the best way to ensure that these forums stay completely dead.

How do you know Jinda's goth was Dosanjh? I've never heard that. Also, I thought Jinda's pind was near Amritsar, and all Dosanjhs were from the Jalandhar area. Anyway, if those yodhas of the KCF were still around today, clowns like Diljit who spew poisonous garbage and make a mockery out of Sikhs would probably have met the same fate as Chamkila

Yes, I know that monay have gained an acceptance inside Sikhi (and, in fact, dominate in most ways) But even though being mona is now the norm, that doesn't mean Singhs should accept monay making a mockery out of Singhs. It is a huge embarrassment for all Singhs that buffoonish monay like Diljit can go around masquerading as Singhs and making a complete mockery out of our saroop and get away with it.

Are you disputing that keeping kesh is not one of the hukams of Guru Gobind Singh? The Guru Granth Sahib is not a list of "commandments"

This guy is a complete buffoon. He is a shameless clown. Look at photos like these. This is offensive and ridiculous on so many levels. First of all, I don't understand why he goes to such great lengths to hide his haircut. If he doesn't want people to know that badly, why doesn't he, you know, just grow out his hair? No, instead he has to wear these idiotic looking wigs. The fact that the Sikh community tolerates such buffoonery shows how pathetic we are. Can you imagine black in America in today's age tolerating white actors in "black face" pretending that they are black? Of course not. So why do we tolerate this <banned word filter activated> wearing that silly thing on his head? Why are monay allowed to pretend to be singhs and go around and act like clowns and defame us? Every Sikh should feel ashamed that we are such a pathetic community that we allow monay to make a complete mockery out of us.

Why does this shock you? Many monay think its amusing to ridicule the Khalsa saroop all the time, referring to Singhs pejoratively as "babbay" or "gianis". If people like that actually knew any shabads, they would probably denigrate shabads too. Now we have someone like jusreign, who used to be a Singh (and who probably, I'm guessing, used to make more of an effort to behave like a proper Sikh than he does these days) that's so desperate to win approval from the secular majority that he has resorted to such disgusting antics. It's sad.

I don't understand the purpose of posting something like this. Yes, he drinks, like 95% of "Sikhs". Is a video like this supposed to be shocking? He's never been amritdhari, and now that he's started trimming his beard, he's not even a singh. Sadly, jusreign's personal conduct and his lack of respect for Sikhi is representative of the vast majority of "Sikhs".

Which university do you go to? You are not required to trim your beard or remove your turban to be employed at Starbucks. If the manager is giving you a hard time about that, they can get in trouble for discrimination, so please stand your ground.

1. We need quantity AND quality. Yes, there are relatively non-religious Sikhs who still contribute to the survival of our community. But at some point, when the quality is diluted too much, what value do they add? KS Brar technically contributes to our quantity, but does he really add anything? There needs to be SOME connection to Sikhi, and my issue is when things have disintegrated to the point that there is virtually NO connection whatsoever for some people. Anyway, I think at all levels, efforts should be made to bring people closer. Get monay who drink and party to go to the gurdwara occasionally and take some interest in Sikh issues. Get monay who go to the gurdwara regularly and do sewa to keep their kesh. Get people who keep their kesh to memorize path and take amrit. You get the picture. 2. I don't think connecting children with Sikhi is limited to making them 100% observant and teaching them to do kirtan and patth, etc. But there needs to be SOME connection. There are lots of Sikhs who are far from amritdhari but have enough of a connection to Sikhi to care about it and want to pass it on in some form. We need to get people to AT LEAST that level. If someone is open to marrying a non-Sikh, then we haven't connected them to Sikhi enough. 3. You make some good points. I am guessing that the monay who you refer to who still exhibit some connection with Sikhi care enough to want to marry other Sikhs. Anyway, we need AT LEAST that level. There are many people out there who know literally nothing about Sikhi, who can't name a single Guru, who are openly atheist, etc. When they have reached adulthood and exhibit such traits, us worrying about whether they will marry a like-minded individual who nevertheless has "singh" or "kaur" in their name is really missing the point. Connecting with these people from a younger age and influencing them is indeed tricky (as you said, how do we get access to such people?). In some cases, we may get access when they occasionally are brought to the gurdwara by their parents. The few times that that happens, there needs to be something to draw them in (this is where I think the English parchar that we see by the Basics of Sikhi people, for instance, could help a lot). Another opportunity could be university. When young people leave home and go to uni, it is a very pivotal time, and the friends they make can dramatically alter their paths in life. More religious minded Sikhs should try to seek out nominal non-religious Sikhs, befriend them, and (very gently) expose them a bit to Sikhi. Invite them to Sikh Student Association events, etc. Anyway, how to engage young people whose families do not teach them about Sikhi is a difficult question to answer, and it deserves a lively discussion of its own. I don't pretend to have all the answers, and I'd like to see some debate about this. Finally, I am not disparaging monay. Sadly, monay are the future of our panth. In my lifetime we will probably see monay SGPC members, a mona Punjab CM, etc. If we accept this, we have to find a way to keep them engaged (a dating website targeted towards gursikhs is not going to appeal to monay who like to party and drink, for example). I should have been more careful in that I was referring to monay who have no connection whatsoever with Sikhi (and therefore want to marry non-Sikhs) in my earlier comment. I did not mean to lump all monay together. Apologies for the mistake.

Okay. If you guys feel that way, fair enough. Maybe any nominal identification with Sikhi is better than nothing. But then here is my question: how do you propose to get nominal Sikhs who don't care about Sikhi to still prioritize marrying nominal Sikhs? I suppose that connecting children with Punjabi culture (even the bastardized pseudo-Punjabi culture, such as bhangra music) could have some value here. Whatever you guys think should be done, SOMETHING needs to be done. People are slaves to convenience. Considering how small our community is, there needs to be some sort of draw for young "Sikhs" to seek each other out (whether it is rooted in Sikhi or some secular "cultural" stuff). Otherwise, why will anyone go out of their way when there are non-Sikhs everywhere you look?

Great post. I agree with all of this.