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VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH Agreed with N30S1NGH that legal would be a more final determination, but there are cases that went through legal that are still hanging (Kala Afghana, Baba Maan Singh etc.) and have no final resolution, at least in the community. There is also a contingent of Sikhs who adhere to puratan Maryada, which states that to take another Sikh to court is to be a tankhaiya and to resolve the matter internally. Though, given the nature of the allegations and the partisan nature of the figure in question, this may have to go legal.

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH Is Dr. Udhoke being labeled the missionary here? Not sure. Either way, the accusation is severe and should be investigated. Dr.Udhoke's statement is not shocking, given Giani Thakur Singh's strange statements like anyone who doesn't do long Mool Mantar will go to hell and him having eaten fruits from a higher plane of existence. How does one give an atmic Shaheedi exactly? Stuff he says is suspicious at times. And I have all the respect in the world for Taksal, which is another reason his statements need to be kept in check - he isn't doing them any favors with these strange statements. Look the Sikh faith needs to wake up - there are misdeeds being committed by parchariks and they need to be investigated to see if there is truth in the allegation, not covered up or dismissed. If there are lies being told by the accuser, the penalty should be severe. But I can tell you personally that a Bibi here was the victim of unwanted advances made upon her (and she later found out others as well). When I approached a Singh from the UK about the matter, he said nothing would be done because the baba had too many supporters. Doesn't matter what affiliation the accuser/accused is, truth is truth.

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH Sigh... ਹਮਰੀ ਜਾਤਿ ਪਾਤਿ ਗੁਰੁ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਹਮ ਵੇਚਿਓ ਸਿਰੁ ਗੁਰ ਕੇ ॥ Hamaree Jaath Paath Gur Sathigur Ham Vaechiou Sir Gur Kae || The Guru, the True Guru, is my social status and honor; I have sold my head to the Guru. (731). Great, Bhatras are a group who became Sikhs. Why is this post 8 pages long? I don't understand this thread at all. If the pride was based in Sikhi, why is this post caste based? When Sikhs do Sangat of each other, they care for Naam/Baani/Seva, not caste, race, gender. This post seems to be so strange - declaring pride that Bhatras are great Sikhs, while highlighting them as a separate caste group in Sikhi, which is directly against Sikhi. Get over the caste pride and be proud to be a Sikh and STOP seeing yourselves as Sikh "from this group". Same goes with Jathebandian. Chhittar Paain Vale Koi Thaudi Jaat/Jathebandi Nahi Puchdae. Sikh Bano, Sikh Kahaao, Simran Karo, Bani Parh Ke Jeevan Vich Amal Karo, Seva Karo.

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH Like Mehtab Singh said, they can copy the structure, not the Sikhi. You can build as many copies of the Mona Lisa as you want - they still sell for a couple of hundred dollars. The real one is priceless. Same with Harmandir Sahib.

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH FACT is that an accusation has been made. The way to resolve this is in front of the Punj Pyare in the hazoori of Sahib Sri Guru Granth Sahib SELECTED by the SANGAT, not handpicked be either party. The case should be heard and decided upon. Otherwise, it is just he said-she said on and on and on with speculation from the two sides who like/dislike Giani Thakur Singh.

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH There is already a Sandesh from the Akaal Takht Sahib Jathedar that says to have minimum 4 kids. The practicality of that, however, was debated on this forum rather recently. Under the propaganda title of "Hum Do, Hum Chaar".

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH More information is needed on this: Who is building this - Sikhs, government, Hindus, Muslims, aliens? If Sikhs, there is a Hukamnama/Sandesh that forbids such construction for the Sikhs. If it is the Hindus/Muslims, maybe a dialog with the Sikh community to find out the intent. If it is the government - time to deeply investigate and understand the intentions, as this is how June 1984 was planned out. Where did you get this Jio? Any source link?

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH Been thinking about this: Potential theory: It may have to do with less and less co-dependence. The parents would retire and depend on the sons/daughters to take care of them. One married couple may not be able to afford a house alone and would team up with brothers' or sisters' married couples to purchase a home and continue to use parent's resources - land and house in some cases - to make income and live in. Most nowadays are independently well off enough to be in separate houses. The children would take care of their parents due to passing on land or wealth and were obligated to take care of them (apart from those who genuinely want to take care of parents) to get their fair share of land or wealth. When the co-dependence is missing, there is no need to be together and families separate. Families that do live together now have a need to do so, and when they are wealthy enough to separate, will do so (and fight along the way until they make the step to separate).

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH Chalo, as everyone is going reviews... :biggrin2: Went with 30 or so Sangat and family for the 3D. Every show is getting sold out and had to get to the theater about 45 minutes early to get a seat (a lot of saving of the seats was going on). The theater employees are very aware that this movie is attracting a lot of viewers and have had to modify their showing methods (converting non 3D viewings and now looking at booking larger theater rooms) to accomodate the influx of viewers. The cinema staff say that this movie will be running at least for 3-4 weeks - it is profitable and very much popular among the viewers. I am saying this as a California resident. The movie is the highest production value animated movie that relates to Sikh history. Vismaad had done an excellent seva in starting this initiative and the trek into 3D is a very welcome evolution. This movie is an absolute must for all, especially those who know nothing about Sikhi. It presents the story as lucidly and cohesively as possible in the time frame alloted. It is a challenge for the makers of this movie, because what they are attempting to show in 2 hours could take up volumes of history books. They openly provided the disclaimer that artistic license was taken to enhance the story telling. That cannot be underscored. Anyone who is familiar with Sikh history will see inaccuracies with certain things: A) Mata Gujri's portrayal as a weak grandmother - this has been covered here already. She is the wife of the Ninth Master, Mother of the Tenth Master and Grandmother to Shaheed Sahibzadae - a woman who had seen three generations pass before her, multiple conflicts and tragedies and was of the highest caliber of Sikhi - she would not be an emotional weakling, to say the least. B) Sahibzadae Ajit Singh and Jujhar Singh Ji were, per historical accounts, able to slay hundreds of the enemy in Chamkaur Sahib battle, not the tens as shown (this could be an animation cost and effort issue). C) Emotional portrayal - would the Guru's family become so emotional over separation and imminent Shaheedi? If Gursikhs from the 1984 movement were able to do jaikarae and celebrate their family members' Shaheedian, then the Guru's family could be no less. These seem to have been done to make a more human connection with the viewer, but portraying them all true to character would not have been any less impactful. Apart from the few issues noted above, the overall effort is EXCELLENT - and truly, these are growing pains. I am writing this as constructive criticism must go hand in hand with accolade to make the next effort more successful and acurate. The makers of the movie deserve to profit massively from this creation and should be encouraged to make a movie on all of Sikh history, enhancing production values as they continue their efforts. The movie media is something that can deliver hundreds of pages of history in a compressed time format to a universal audience with dubbing/captioning that books are unable to do. These are our history come to life, and the Sikh Panth needs to encourage, fund, and promote these initiatives. We need to get to Lord of the Rings type production values and scope/exposure to bring our history to the masses. It cannot be underscored the power of the media - the independence movement of Scotland in modern times owes at least part of its roots to Braveheart. We as a community need to capitalize on this media power.

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH Good! No awakening occurs in the Sikh community until we are under attack, and it takes genocides to wake all of the Panth up to any sort of unity. It's not like our people were bright enough to vote out the Akaalis for the past 30+ years. "Naa, Asi Ta Akaali Nu Hi Vote Pauni!". Bara Rang Laayaa Akaalian Neh. They deserve marginalization and we deserve being put into a corner and to be beaten until we wake up and see with our open eyes that we are losing everything and we had better wake up and start swinging back. How many 1984s will it take to wake this sleeping Panth, boot everyone out of the Takht Sahiban and SGPC, hold Sarbat Khalsa and declare our nation to awaken and fight for its survival? Victory is ours, provided we can become Khalsa - so we declare every day when we meet each other and say Fateh. Victory, independence and the highest respect is there for the taking, provided we can become worthy of receiving it.

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH Bhai jasvendrasingh Jio, what would you say to Bhai Nand Lal Sahib's verses, who wrote: SAD HAZAARAAN ASHR-O SULS-O SULSOON SITA-INDEH-E BARGAAHASH SAD HAZAARAAN EESHAR-O BRAHMAA V ARSH-O KURSI KHAHIND-EH-E PANAAHASH Lacs of gods and angels praise the splendor of his (Sahib-E-Kamal, Guru Gobind Singh Ji) palace; lacs of gods like Shiv and Brahama are wishing to be near his throne for protection. http://www.zafarnama.com/Download/ganjnama.pdf Also, where in Sahib Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is their existence rejected? Their importance is indeed rejected, but the existence - I cannot recall a single verse that says that they do not exist. One pangti that stands out is: ਓਅੰਕਾਰਿ ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਉਤਪਤਿ ॥ Ouankaar Brahamaa Outhapath || From Ongkaar, the One Universal Creator God, Brahma was created. ਓਅੰਕਾਰ ਰੂਪੁ ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾਂ ਸਰੂਪ ਤੇ ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਜੀ ਉਤਪਤ ਹੋਏ ਹੈਂ॥ (Faridkot Teeka) (929) This seems to as clearly and succinctly state that Brahma was created by the Almighty. I am not in any way giving an exhaustive listing (as there are many) that point to the Almighty creating the devi/devtas, but this is one example that was in my mind as I read your post. There is a difference in revering said deities (strictly against Sikhi, where Pooja Akaal Ki is prescribed) and acknowledging that they exist. Guru Sahib has provided, in the Dasam Granth Sahib, some context and understanding of who these deities are, as they are referenced heavily in Sahib Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, but to claim that Sahib Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji wholesale rejects their existence...will require verses to be quoted to establish that position. Regards

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH Nobody was inside at the time of the fire??? I really hope that Guru Sahib's saroop(s) were not left there while no Granthi/Gyani Sikh was on duty. If that is the case, the committee or Granthi/Gyani Sikh needs to answer as to what was going on.

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH One of the commitments that Bhai Mardana had to make to Guru Nanak Sahib was to keep kesh. It appears to be from the beginning. Source: Katha I randomly remember and multiple citations multiple times on Internet. Either that Kathakar is really popular, or they are all referencing one source that I don't know the name of. Some state that the original Janamsakhi had this reference in a conversation between Guru Nanak Sahib and Peer Bahauddin Source: http://gurmatbibek.com/forum/read.php?3,30325,30325 Mundan cermemony - That Guru Sahib rejected janeo ceremony is known. Mundan is unknown to me and has not been cited explicitly.

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH Yep, Sant Ji had a speech online I can not locate, but he spoke of how he went to Mumbai to do parchar for a couple of months and, in that time, miscreants threw tobacco packets into the Harmandir Sahib complex. After chastising Sikhs who did nothing (except for Sant Baba Harnaam Singh RampurKera and Baba Nihal Singh Hariavela), he proceeded to outline that the the punishment for such a person should be to be beaten to death, hung outside the Harmandir Sahib with a board that says that Sikhs do not hate any religion or whatever human associations that exist, but if any beadbi is to occur, you will be punished like this one here (pointing to the dead body as an example). There is a reason why beadbi continues - unless there is direct bodily harm associated with doing something, people don't stop.

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH Does this individual work with an organization? Typically, when they do, the other sevadaars are all too familiar with the individual's behavior. You could form a group of like-minded individuals aware of this individual's deeds and bring them to the organization's attention. Going as an individual will not have as much impact and you could get sidelined - get 5 or more, and you have enough clout to force them to address the issue. Why does Guru Sahib allow it to happen? It is the Hukam of the Almighty - it is not for us to judge and decide upon. Do what you can, but realize that Kalyug is filled with pakhand and bad deeds.

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH There must be a specific knee targeting disease in the India that disables all politicians and requires them to sit on chairs when in the presence of Sahib Sri Guru Granth Sahib...yeah, that's it.

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH Oh for the love of GOD, READ & UNDERSTAND GURBANI AND DO WHAT IT SAYS!!!! Satkaar will come as your love develops and you need to listen to your inner self on this topic on what Satkaar and how to do Satkaar for electronic media. There are very good protocols on pothian, Gutka Sahibs, and other printed forms of Gurbani. Electronic media is a very grey area and Gursikhs really don't have a consensus on this topic. Some have made the plea to Akaal Takht Sahib to issue a clarification so there is a unified directive. If you have this much of concern for Satkaar (and there is nothing wrong with that), please gather support from the Sangat and put pressure on Akaal Takht Sahib to issue such a directive. These arguments got as ridiculous as if you open a PDF of Sahib Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, should you have a Rumalla Sahib, Chandoa Sahib and Chaur Sahib, with the computer parkash on a Takht Poash on a Manji Sahib for that PC. What if you memorize Gurbani and then see a magazine ad accidentally with a scantily dressed woman? What if you are reading the newspaper and there is an ad that you see that promises to fix your physical marital type problems? Your mind is also a computer that stores Gurbani in sectors - should we be advocating surgical deactivation of that sector of the brain??? Innocent, well meaning questions turn into platforms to attack each other and do NOTHING to answer the origional poster's question. Read Gurbani, do as much Satkaar as possible. And for the love of GOD, have some faith. If Dasam Patshah can give Darshan to a Kenyan to instruct him that he is not doing seva at a Gurdwara correctly, would he not instruct his devotees away from any beadbi?

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH Sold out in our area yesterday. At least 50+ Sangat was standing outside the theater, unable to get in. And were HAPPY that a positive initiative was receiving the Sangat's money and would encourage more movies like this. The 3D had such demand, that the theater had to convert the regular showing into 3D to meet demand. There is a LOT of ticket sale for this movie. Booked 30 tickets for today's showing in 3D with our local Sangat and found out while getting tickets that that showing was sold out after getting our tickets. Showing a representation of Guru Sahib's face - it is a tightrope all of the time - how much you can show, how much animation you can do, whether you should do any face at all - advantages and disadvantages to both. The static face was probably the safe bet - otherwise, opposition to the movie could be overwhelming and then we have no movie. Bhai Sukhvinder Singh from Vismaad stated that when he made the movie Sahibzadae, he was reported to the Akaal Takht Sahib and demonstrations were planned outside theaters. When he questioned whether the protesters or opponents had seen the movie, they said no. He told them to at least watch the movie - they did and retracted their opposition. An unenviable position to be sure and something to appreciate as to the precarious nature of religious film productions.

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH True, but in the Gurdwara video, there is still an elevated platform which the person is sitting on.

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=W0wQmoaLaRU&feature=youtu.be How about now?

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH The Akaal Takht Jathedar was just there. Everyone knows what is going on there, there are books and folks exposing them daily, but when you have the money and the connections, things get ignored quite handily. Half of the Panth is still enamored by the fact that the Western folks have adopted Sikhism and don't know if the other things going on there. The fact that their "Sikh Dharma Manual" - aka. Rehat Maryada for the Western Sikhs - actually prescribes Yoga; bhangra and giddha being performed by members of their community including Chardi-Kalaa Jatha; twisting Gurbani to make Yogi mantars as confirmed by attendees of the Solstice camps (this supposedly riled some of the Gursikhs that attended the camp; violation of their own Sikh Dharma Manual, which explicitly instructs that the Punj Pyare doing Amrit Sanchar seva should have eyes on the Amrit baataa and a hand on the Amrit baataa and Khanda on the other or both on the batta - instead it is very common for the sevadaars to be using a Gutka Sahib or smartphone to read Bani off of, violating the eyes and hands clause of their own crafted Maryada; having innocent attendees of the camp dancing - some of which was body to body - while Gurbani is played as "background music"; being in Bana and hair loose and dancing at the camps, to mention a very small number of things. Until the Sikh Panth at large wakes up to their misdeeds, compiles the evidence and puts pressure on the Akaal Takht Sahib, nothing will happen. Don't think anyone at the SGPC/Akaal Takht Sahib will be doing anything on their own. There are good Sikhs present there as well (some of who do not see eye to eye with the above and other manmat practices), but as an organization, they are misrepresenting, slandering and outright violating many Sikh principles. It is sad, as they are doing Amrit parchar and introducing Sikhi to the world and are effective in starting communities in countries where no mainstream Sikh organization is making inroads (South America, China, etc.). I am firmly of the belief that in some way, this will introduce Sikhi to every nation and corner of the world - but when these folks will awaken to the true representation of the faith and have to interact with other Sikhs, I foresee some trouble. It is not unusual to see the 3HO crowd continue to pull on the sympathy "we get victimized by the Punjabi Sikhs" theme - I call nonsense. The majority of those Western Sikhs living IN the West are something that most Sikhs are already familiar with and automatically give more respect to than a fellow Punjabi Sikh. It's time to have them join, participate and act like the rest of the Sikh Panth and stop with the insular cultish nonsense. And if the comments of victimization are for Indians - well, ANY Gursikh going to India in any sort of Bana is stared at, regardless of color or ethnicity. They have a very large presence and the de facto reference site for Sikhism on the internet - Sikhnet. They also control other websites that are de facto websites - like Sikhiwiki - and can twist and bend Sikhi to their views (like saying Dancing is in line with Gurmat). At some point, either 3HO will have to separate itself from the Sikh Dharma and clearly delineate the difference between Yogi-ism and Sikhism or make a decision where they lie. It is not a question of being new to the faith - they have been around since the 60s, had interaction with multiple Gursikh jathebandis in India (Taksal, AKJ) and cannot claim that they don't know what Sikhi is (some behave as if the Punjabis are substandard Sikhs and the real Sikhi is in the Western Sikhs - this rather haughty stance is misplaced to say the least - I am saying this with firsthand experience - again, some are very good Gursikhs - others are brainwashed to "Yogi Bhajan is Supreme" mentality). I truly pray and hope they come into line with mainstream Sikhi and the members of 3HO who pursue Sikhi have an awakening as to what Sikhi says and doesn't say.

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH This is part of living in Hukam of Akal Purakh. Some Gursikhs don't have huge beards, look at: Ragi Harbans Singh Ragi Narinder Singh (Benares) Giani Sher Singh Not a big deal. Many also don't get a full beard until mid life - it's just the way it is.

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH Some information on this issue. I recommend this Youtube channel with Surinder Singh - he has coverage of issues nobody does and is done very professionally. On Profession Dhrenvar himself - inspirational.

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH I like luckysingh's response better, so mine's got to go.

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH I'll try to use this simplified analogy: Take an empty glass of water, dip it in the ocean. The ocean is in the glass, the ocean is also in the ocean - they are the same, yet "two". This is the Guru and Akaal Purakh in a simplistic representation - the same ocean, the same light, the same "water", but one has been housed in the human body (glass). This is also the state of BrahmGyanis/Pooran Gursikhs. The difference between the Guru and the Sikh is that the Guru teaches and the Sikh follows. But the Sikh can follow to such a point that he/she also becomes like the Guru (but never teaches a separate philosophy or Dharm. He/she can inspire others on the path, but does not create a new one). We all have the same "ocean" inside us - however, the duality of maya and ego are like a handful of dirt thrown into that glass. It is through Naam Simran, Gurbani Paath/Keertan that this mud is removed and the pristine "ocean" (Atma, part and parcel of the Parm-Atma) shines through with its true nature and the Almighty is realized. Hence why Gurbani says to search within yourself, as that is where the Almighty resides and you can make a connection to the Almighty. That connection is through Simran and Gurbani - to remove the filth of ego and maya and to see and finally be one with the Almighty within.